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When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
Why can't your guild manage its own members? Having Inno manage your guild for you is not the solution.
Because it’s not his guild to run. Member, not leader or founder.
that I've been a member of
If the leaders of your guild are satisfied with the participation then that should be enough.

If there were a autokick function it’d need to be customisable by the guild founder/leader to have a set parameter that they alone choose. Not every guild even participates in GBG, neither does every guild care if their members participate. To have a autokick would need to cater to each individual guilds needs.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
What I've seen in a couple diamond guilds that I've been a member of is a lot of the top players in the guilds aren't participating because they're now focused on GB levels to boost their player ranking. I was #58 in the last guild and finishing #18 or so in GbG. Participation is the difference in a lot of these battlegrounds. I'd like to see Inno kick members out of their guild for not participating. That's right, automatic removal by Inno. Only way back in is to reapply.
Why? You can't kick folks from your guild? Another idea for Inno to fix what leadership lacks?
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
Actually there is as much a problem at the other end of the scale. Am in a young guild in one world. Last season we did GBG and won with very little input from us. Simply because all the other guilds were dead and not one of them did anything. So this season we are in Gold. As yet have not finished taking our 3rd tile. but we are first. with only 2 other guilds even bothering to put up their 1st flag. If it stays like this, next season we will automatically go up to Platinum and I know for a fact that we as a young guild, are not ready for it yet. What do we do? Order our members not to fight any more and lose out on rewards with the hopes another couple of the guilds will wake up and do enough to beat us.? Does the fact that INNO is including so many dead guilds in the bottom mix have any bearing on the fact that guilds that are obviously not ready are being pushed up a league to soon?
 

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
Actually there is as much a problem at the other end of the scale. Am in a young guild in one world. Last season we did GBG and won with very little input from us. Simply because all the other guilds were dead and not one of them did anything. So this season we are in Gold. As yet have not finished taking our 3rd tile. but we are first. with only 2 other guilds even bothering to put up their 1st flag. If it stays like this, next season we will automatically go up to Platinum and I know for a fact that we as a young guild, are not ready for it yet. What do we do? Order our members not to fight any more and lose out on rewards with the hopes another couple of the guilds will wake up and do enough to beat us.? Does the fact that INNO is including so many dead guilds in the bottom mix have any bearing on the fact that guilds that are obviously not ready are being pushed up a league to soon?
Yup, too easy of upward progression through the leagues is a core issue with GBG.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
Does the fact that INNO is including so many dead guilds in the bottom mix
Inno isn't including them, they're including themselves. Any guild that doesn't take at least one tile in a GBG round gets kicked from GBG automatically unless they opt back in. So either all those dead guilds just formed between the last round starting and the current one, or their leadership actively chose to have it available again. And therein lies the problem. Too many guilds aren't actually participating in GBG, they're just choosing to keep that option open. There should be a mechanism that precludes a guild from opting in if they've gone a certain number of rounds without participating. I think 4 rounds of GBG without taking a tile should automatically invoke a 4 round lockout for that guild. This would cut down on the number of "dead" guilds included, which would tighten up the leagues considerably. Fewer guilds would be in each level, and guilds would have to compete to move up instead of just moving up as a result of minimum effort.
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
Inno isn't including them, they're including themselves. Any guild that doesn't take at least one tile in a GBG round gets kicked from GBG automatically unless they opt back in. So either all those dead guilds just formed between the last round starting and the current one, or their leadership actively chose to have it available again. And therein lies the problem. Too many guilds aren't actually participating in GBG, they're just choosing to keep that option open. There should be a mechanism that precludes a guild from opting in if they've gone a certain number of rounds without participating. I think 4 rounds of GBG without taking a tile should automatically invoke a 4 round lockout for that guild. This would cut down on the number of "dead" guilds included, which would tighten up the leagues considerably. Fewer guilds would be in each level, and guilds would have to compete to move up instead of just moving up as a result of minimum effort.
I'm not arguing, I just don't understand. If a guild doesn't take a tile won't they come in last and lose LPs? Continued inactivity would eventually land them in copper league, right?
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
Continued inactivity would eventually land them in copper league, right?
As JbG says Guild who do not participate get kicked out of GBG all together not just be in copper league. Their founder or a Leader has to make the choice to deliberately log back in. Even though they still have no intentions of taking part. So how does a new young guild that does want to be able to gauge its real strength in GBG do that? If they have no-one in either copper or gold to test their strength against? The first real battle activity they get is when they reach platinum purely because they have had no challenges to get there. In an ideal guild set up the founders and leaders should have experience in the game. so they will want their newbie members to gain the fight experience they need BEFORE reaching platinum. The way things are, how do they do that in GBG?
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
I'd like to see Inno kick members out of their guild for not participating. That's right, automatic removal by Inno. Only way back in is to reapply.
So you think that the guild founder and leader should be able to sit on their butt, make no effort at all to encourage, co-ordinate, teach, improve the strengths of, or police the actions of the member of the guild they chose to create. and leave INNO to do their work for them?
 

67Sage101

Active Member
Must be the longest thread in history. GB is balanced fine as long as the top guilds work together. We have a mutually shared non-spoken agreement of which guild gets 1, 2 or 3 position. And we swap the map every 4 hours making sure every guild that wants hits get's at least 150 on a sector. Then the guild leaders dec-side on who flips what and gets what. If #3 get's out of line the top two push them back into their corner. So it's play nice, take your positions, and get your hits and don't complain. I talk to people that get 500FP a day in the top guilds. I can't fight that much but I imagine when you are getting in 200 fights a day you get a lot of FP's.
 

Ironrooster

Active Member
Must be the longest thread in history. GB is balanced fine as long as the top guilds work together. We have a mutually shared non-spoken agreement of which guild gets 1, 2 or 3 position. And we swap the map every 4 hours making sure every guild that wants hits get's at least 150 on a sector. Then the guild leaders dec-side on who flips what and gets what. If #3 get's out of line the top two push them back into their corner. So it's play nice, take your positions, and get your hits and don't complain. I talk to people that get 500FP a day in the top guilds. I can't fight that much but I imagine when you are getting in 200 fights a day you get a lot of FP's.
Excellent explanation of how the Guild Battleground is not really a battle ground. It's just a large fishing pond that is restocked every 2 weeks.
 

67Sage101

Active Member
Excellent explanation of how the Guild Battleground is not really a battle ground. It's just a large fishing pond that is restocked every 2 weeks.
It can be a battle if you want it to be. If you don't play nice, a power guild can give you a whipping. The top GBG guild on my server can clear a sector faster than you can count. Also the battle is the troop battle, but you don't have to auto battle. You can manual battle and plan your battle strategy. What I described is also a battle strategy one that uses negotiation and cooperation to maximize benefits. But if you just like to fight your way across the map and see if you can hold sectors...you can play that way.
 

67Sage101

Active Member
It's just a large fishing pond that is restocked every 2 weeks.
The way you say this makes me think you dislike it. However what would be the alternative to a pond with fish? A pond with no fish? A pond with algae? Personally in terms of city advantages, I like the rewards from GBG...and now that I joined a top guild, I like them even more than I did in a guild that played very little. It has helped me immensely in terms of FP for leveling buildings. I'm growing my city much faster in a guild that eats GBG for breakfast.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
As JbG says Guild who do not participate get kicked out of GBG all together not just be in copper league. Their founder or a Leader has to make the choice to deliberately log back in. Even though they still have no intentions of taking part. So how does a new young guild that does want to be able to gauge its real strength in GBG do that? If they have no-one in either copper or gold to test their strength against? The first real battle activity they get is when they reach platinum purely because they have had no challenges to get there. In an ideal guild set up the founders and leaders should have experience in the game. so they will want their newbie members to gain the fight experience they need BEFORE reaching platinum. The way things are, how do they do that in GBG?
You check your battle history to see how many players participate and how many battles each player gets each season. You see how how many players show up when you post a target (usually at preset time which in this case you'll have to pick if no one else is really fighting)., you ask your membership just how high they can go in attrition while fighting, you check with your membership so you have a solid understanding of how many negotiators you have in your guild as they can be a valuable resource (fighting if faster but if you have a few people who negotiate on top of other fighters that can help). They also help in taking high attrition targets at times so you can manage the guild's overall attrition level. You can see just how fast you can take sectors every day and see just how much of the map you can own. If you have no competition then you can see how long it takes you to sweep the map and own all of the key sectors if not the whole map. You see how long it takes you take a single sector when you have a decent turn out. You can go through your guild and see the number of goods you are producing each day and compare that to the cost of camps (assuming you are using any). You can go through your guild and see just how high everyone's attack boosts are and develop a plan to increase your capacity. You can try and recruit players with a bit more experience. A lot of times older players can be found that will not be as active but can be used to help boost your 1.9 thread and provide tips on how to proceed and strengthen your guild for GBG. You can see just how much GE you can get done and how much of that is fighting versus negotiation. You can create a thread and ask for some advice.

I'm sure there are other ways and other will be willing to help if you have an interest.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
The way you say this makes me think you dislike it. However what would be the alternative to a pond with fish? A pond with no fish? A pond with algae? Personally in terms of city advantages, I like the rewards from GBG...and now that I joined a top guild, I like them even more than I did in a guild that played very little. It has helped me immensely in terms of FP for leveling buildings. I'm growing my city much faster in a guild that eats GBG for breakfast.

Without going back and see his posts I can't be sure but I'm pretty sure he's in favor of making it a battleground in some way that requires much more fighting. How that would impact participation is debatable but from my viewpoint it is the rewards that bring most to the table in this case.
 

Ironrooster

Active Member
The way you say this makes me think you dislike it. However what would be the alternative to a pond with fish? A pond with no fish? A pond with algae? Personally in terms of city advantages, I like the rewards from GBG...and now that I joined a top guild, I like them even more than I did in a guild that played very little. It has helped me immensely in terms of FP for leveling buildings. I'm growing my city much faster in a guild that eats GBG for breakfast.
Actually, I like it. It's a nice way to pick up some goodies every day it's running. My solo guild does quite nicely in the Gold League. I just don't see it as a much of a competition with other guilds.
The only level that has issues seems to be the Diamond League and while the fix is easy, it seems the developers aren't interested.
 

The Lady Redneck

Well-Known Member
@ wolfhoundtoo I fully understand all that. And how to encourage them to be part of all that goes on in the guild. I also know how long it can take to get all that going. Especially in a newer world with a lot of newbies who join a guild but think they can play a solitary game.. Not talking about that though. My concerns are with the GBG part of it only. The total lack of real competition is the main thing. Even if there is plenty to keep interest in the rest of the guild areas. GbG season starts. you do your best to encourage the newbies to give it their best shot. You tell them how good they are doing, how their effort is helping the guide (and each other) And they like the rewards. But it does not take anyone long to realize they are going to get them without really trying. You get to the centre, you get the 4 centre tiles. You start working back out. Still no movement from any other guild in the mix. Then boredom starts setting in. There is not even the challenge for experienced players of keeping a good checkerboard going. If some way was found to develop longer term interest in the lower levels of GBG and get newbies more on board so they knew what to expect by the time they get to platinum. I think it would help balance things more.
 

wolfhoundtoo

Well-Known Member
@ wolfhoundtoo I fully understand all that. And how to encourage them to be part of all that goes on in the guild. I also know how long it can take to get all that going. Especially in a newer world with a lot of newbies who join a guild but think they can play a solitary game.. Not talking about that though. My concerns are with the GBG part of it only. The total lack of real competition is the main thing. Even if there is plenty to keep interest in the rest of the guild areas. GbG season starts. you do your best to encourage the newbies to give it their best shot. You tell them how good they are doing, how their effort is helping the guide (and each other) And they like the rewards. But it does not take anyone long to realize they are going to get them without really trying. You get to the centre, you get the 4 centre tiles. You start working back out. Still no movement from any other guild in the mix. Then boredom starts setting in. There is not even the challenge for experienced players of keeping a good checkerboard going. If some way was found to develop longer term interest in the lower levels of GBG and get newbies more on board so they knew what to expect by the time they get to platinum. I think it would help balance things more.

That's on you and your guild to keep it interesting enough for them to learn the ropes. There's 51 pages before this debating various ideas and I doubt any of them would make much difference for your guild. And if ultimately they aren't interested in getting ready for the more competitive leagues that's a choice they and your guild made and you'll have to deal with it when you get there. Like everything else in this game long term interest is on the players.

And it's real easy to say it should be balance better and let someone else do the work to figure it out. Why should Inno bother? They clearly like the results to GBG as evidenced by the lack of changes to it despite all of the feedback they've gotten about it. In the end maintaining interest within a single guild is on the guild leadership.