[Answered] Which GB's NOT to build and why?

[DeletedUser30312]

Read both.

Fwiw, I'm actually following Glarg's approach. I built both Zeus and ToB before leaving Bronze Age, and only left BA when I had LoA blueprints complete and foundation laid.
Yes I'm following Glarg's guide, but you would be crazy not to read Cosmic Raven's guide. It is the Ultimate Truth. Maybe a little too intense for some (like myself).

Oh, I agree. Both Glarg's and Cosmic Raven's guides have some good advice, but they're not entirely compatible. Glarg advises to stay in BA to farm bps, while CR thinks BA is a waste of time, they also disagree on the ToB, for example. I'm not a big fan of CR's approach myself, but he gives very good information on how the recurring quests are set up and his analysis of the GBs and special buildings aren't too bad. Of course his opinions on the GBs and specials are based on his questing approach, so a different gaming style might not benefit from some of the advice. I think inexperienced players should still read the advice in both guides and decide on an approach that works for them.

I stand by my comment from earlier that which GB is worth building is dependent on gamer's play style. For example, I don't play GvG. So for me, Deal and the Atom aren't really worth much; my guild won't use the support bonus from the Deal and spending 7x7 on it is questionable. The guild doesn't need the goods from the Atom; I'm generating enough for GE with an Observatory and Arc, while I don't need the happiness with a Hagia, FoD, and Traz parked in my city. But someone in a GvG guild may need the buildings for guild support (well until AF when the Atom stops being useful to the guild).

I'd say there's at least 5 different styles to take into account when planning GBs:

Fighting: You need the Zeus/CoA/CdM for the attack bonuses. Build the Traz to generate your army. Get AO after you level the attack buildings. Atlantis if you're doing PvP and you plunder. LoA, SMB, and Arc minimally for city support, consider the Chat and Inno.
Farming/Merchanting: LoA and SMB for both the goods production and production boosts. ToB and FoD for more goods production, with RAH a bit later as you gain more space. CdM for the FP and maybe add Zeus if you need to fight on occasion. Inno to replace your houses eventually so you have more room for production. Chat to take advantage of quests for more production. Everyone can use an Arc. You'll need another GB besides the FoD to provide happiness, unless you want to spend valuable production space on culture buildings. Hagia's okay, but the happiness will eventually be outpaced by normal culture buildings later in the game, it's also big early, which is when you want to build it. It's also the easiest one to build that's worth anything. Atom's good, especially if your guild needs the goods. Gaea might be useful for a while.
GE: Follow either fighting or farming depending on whether you want to fight or negotiate, and add the ToR and Observatory.
GvG: Follow either fighting or farming depending on whether you're fighting for the guild or supporting, and add Deal and Basil for the guild's support pool, and Obs and Atom to make those all important guild goods.
Heavy Questing: CR has this approach covered in his guide.

 

[DeletedUser29766]

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Read both.

Fwiw, I'm actually following Glarg's approach. I built both Zeus and ToB before leaving Bronze Age, and only left BA when I had LoA blueprints complete and foundation laid.
Yes I'm following Glarg's guide, but you would be crazy not to read Cosmic Raven's guide. It is the Ultimate Truth. Maybe a little too intense for some (like myself).

I have only perused the heavy quest one so far but it is answering a lot of my questions. I screwed the pooch having no quests through iron age but live and learn.
Will read the other one next.
So if I am in EMA does that mean I can just get rid of butchers? They are done as far as quests, right?

 

[DeletedUser28670]

I have only perused the heavy quest one so far but it is answering a lot of my questions. I screwed the pooch having no quests through iron age but live and learn.
Will read the other one next.
So if I am in EMA does that mean I can just get rid of butchers? They are done as far as quests, right?

Yes, butchers do not count. Tanneries and shoemakers are the ones that count.

 

[DeletedUser]

but you would be crazy not to read Cosmic Raven's guide. It is the Ultimate Truth.

Seriously? That is so ridiculous, it's laughable.

 

[ITown]

Skip:
Colosseum - happiness sucks
Notre Dame - happiness sucks
St Basil - not worth the FP & space compared to how many goods you could produce in the space
Deal Castle - same as st basil. medals are good early but suck if you have high lvl arc
Capitol - population sucks
Space Needle - happiness sucks period.
Atomium - happiness sucks compared to other GBs. guild goods redundant when you have high lvl arc.
Lotus - happiness sucks

Situational (usually skip):
Voyager V1 (only good for plunderers)
Habitat (only good for extreme fighters)
Seed Vault (ok in very advanced ages if you aid daily, reliably)
Gaea Statue (good in early ages, but extremely expensive to construct & level up)
Atlantean Museum (only good for plunderers - the goods production sucks)

 

[DeletedUser]

The game evolves, looking back certain GB's helped me for a while but became obsolete. If you are sitting at the end of OF3 it's easy to say certain GB's are of no value. It just comes down to how you want to progress. I like that I can look at cities of all ages and no two are the same.
Some enjoy certain elements of the game I don't and that's cool, it's your city/game. Just have fun!

 

[DeletedUser]

If I ever decide to advance to the latest age (I'm in CE in my most advanced city), I will probably build every GB that I have room for. At that point, coins, supplies and medals will become pointless, given that there is a limit to the medal expansions, and event/special buildings can provide current age goods. And I will be able to sell high age goods very cheaply to lower era players, since I don't do GvG.

 

[DeletedUser29295]

If I ever decide to advance to the latest age (I'm in CE in my most advanced city), I will probably build every GB that I have room for. At that point, coins, supplies and medals will become pointless, given that there is a limit to the medal expansions, and event/special buildings can provide current age goods. And I will be able to sell high age goods very cheaply to lower era players, since I don't do GvG.

I am of the mind that every GB can be useful. My own city is being developed so I will not have any production/supply/population building. Right now I am pretty well set for GB's, but I will add specific ones as I need them until I get to where I want to be.

Atomium - happiness sucks compared to other GBs. guild goods redundant when you have high lvl arc.

To myself, goods are never redundant when providing for the Guild Treasury.

But to each their own: that is what makes this game most interesting.

 

[ITown]

The game evolves, looking back certain GB's helped me for a while but became obsolete. If you are sitting at the end of OF3 it's easy to say certain GB's are of no value. It just comes down to how you want to progress. I like that I can look at cities of all ages and no two are the same.
Some enjoy certain elements of the game I don't and that's cool, it's your city/game. Just have fun!

If you aren't sitting at the end of tech,
- Capitol is still inferior to Inno Tower
- Habitat is still redundant
- Lotus is still inferior to Gaea Statue, Alcatraz, Hagia & Dresden, all of which have a more useful secondary bonus
- Colosseum, Space Needle, & Notre Dame are still inferior to Gaea Statue

Unless you are in a world where nobody has built the advanced buildings, I'm not sure that it matters much what age you are in yourself.

But regardless, the hallmark of a good GB is one that never becomes obsolete.

To myself, goods are never redundant when providing for the Guild Treasury.

But to each their own: that is what makes this game most interesting.

Depends on what age you're in. When you are in the Arctic Future or beyond, there is no use for treasury goods apart from unlocking GE.

 

[DeletedUser27848]

Seriously? That is so ridiculous, it's laughable.

I don't know that I would follow Cosmic Raven's advice to the letter, but to deny what he says, is denial/ego issues that you have.
And I've read his stuff many times, and I do intend to apply some/most of his advice.
I'm also aware of the stuff you wrote attacking his ideas, which has no benefit to those people that are interested in learning, the Heavy Questing strategy.

 

[Algona]

am of the mind that every GB can be useful.

You can be of what ever mind set you want, but it;s wrong. You do a disservice to new players telling them this. They'll find some reason to build Colosseum or Notre Dame. And there is never a good reason to build either.

Please quit misleading new players.

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Re CR v Glarg. They both work. There's great information in both.

Glarg's is simple; players can get into it in minutes and within a day are well on their way. But Glarg is short on theory, players will have to figure out the why later on. It's not a Guide on long term play, it;s a fast start technique that was designed to be afandoned. It uses and incidentally teaches much needed fundametals of RQs that can benefit a player long tern, but I have n idea if Glarg intended that.

CR's is a lifestyle, a guide designed to last a player the entire game. HQS is long! Lonh on duration. On theory, On detailed fundamental information. On disorganization. On non essential off topic junk on dancer on comet on donner und blitzen! There's tons of essential fundamental information, tons of theory, tons of wonderfully effective techniqres, and unfortunately, megatons of garbage to sift through. It's worth the effort to do the sifting, sometimes barely. And when the zealots and fanatics get involved it turns to deep piles of dooky muy pronto.

The person who sifts out all the guano will be able to grow acres of really beautiful roses.

The person who extracts the fundamentals of Recurring Quests from that massive pile and cogently writes the Guide that sceams to be written will be benefiting the entire game.

The person who does the same for HQS will prolly be stoned by the zealots.

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Both are effective. Both teach a lot.

Any technique system guide that uses abuses RQs on a regular basis will work and give its adherents a substantial to dominating advantage over those who don't understand or use RQs.

The biggest benefist of either? They teach players the fundamentals and benefits of RQs.

 

[DeletedUser29766]

No. Go read Glarg's How To Build Your First Great Buildings in Under a Month, mingmen.

I looked in the guide section and Glarg's posting history and can't find this. Where does it hide?

 

[DeletedUser26120]

I looked in the guide section and Glarg's posting history and can't find this. Where does it hide?

Had to use google to find it.

https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com...o-great-buildings-in-less-than-a-month.13426/

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't know that I would follow Cosmic Raven's advice to the letter, but to deny what he says, is denial/ego issues that you have.
And I've read his stuff many times, and I do intend to apply some/most of his advice.
I'm also aware of the stuff you wrote attacking his ideas, which has no benefit to those people that are interested in learning, the Heavy Questing strategy.

I guess if you want to spend your game life endlessly clicking production buildings, interspersed with abort/confirm clicking, maybe it is the ultimate truth for you. For someone like me, who plays for entertainment and relaxation, it's serious crap. Not that there aren't worthwhile nuggets here and there, but it is a serious bore to follow his technique for even a little while.

 

[DeletedUser30312]

The biggest benefits of CR's guide is that he explains in good detail how the RQs work. Good information for any player. And he lists which supply productions are worth using to exploit the rewards. I've never liked following specific play guides like that myself, I prefer to learn and understand how a game works through experience. When people blindly follow another player's methods, they often seem to have the hardest time adapting when things change.

 

[DeletedUser]

The biggest benefits of CR's guide is that he explains in good detail how the RQs work. Good information for any player. And he lists which supply productions are worth using to exploit the rewards. I've never liked following specific play guides like that myself, I prefer to learn and understand how a game works through experience. When people blindly follow another player's methods, they often seem to have the hardest time adapting when things change.

Yes, his info on the RQs is fine, although some of the info, such as which production buildings to use, is only valid for devoted followers of his entire strategy. It's when he delves into telling people what GBs to build/not build, and what and how many military barracks to build that he strays out of his expertise. In order for his view on GBs to be valid, again, you would have to follow his entire strategy, it is not valid for people playing any other way. And some of his advice on military buildings is just crap.

 

[DeletedUser]

- Colosseum, Space Needle, & Notre Dame are still inferior to Gaea Statue

Anyone who plays longer than a few weeks should have that figured out. If you are lower age and don't have a sugar daddy supplying you the goods for Gaea then these are valid options.

 

[DeletedUser29295]

You can be of what ever mind set you want, but it;s wrong. You do a disservice to new players telling them this. They'll find some reason to build Colosseum or Notre Dame. And there is never a good reason to build either

I never tell new players to build those buildings. I said I am of the mind, pertaining to what I think according to my specific city situation. I do like the vast majority of your posts, Algona, but you need to post my entire statement:

I am of the mind that every GB can be useful. My own city is being developed so I will not have any production/supply/population building. Right now I am pretty well set for GB's, but I will add specific ones as I need them until I get to where I want to be.[\quote]

I bolded what should have stood out in my quote.

 

[DeletedUser27184]

CR's is a lifestyle, a guide designed to last a player the entire game. HQS is long! Lonh on duration. On theory, On detailed fundamental information. On disorganization. On non essential off topic junk on dancer on comet on donner und blitzen! There's tons of essential fundamental information, tons of theory, tons of wonderfully effective techniqres, and unfortunately, megatons of garbage to sift through.

Lol. But all true.
Its really worth reading through CR guide. But it can be hard since a lot of important stuff is written in later posts (and not the starting posts of the guide). Especially when the nagging and trolling starts. Still its so loaded with information which is rather hard to find elsewhere, so its worth reading it fully.

Yes, his info on the RQs is fine, although some of the info, such as which production buildings to use, is only valid for devoted followers of his entire strategy. It's when he delves into telling people what GBs to build/not build, and what and how many military barracks to build that he strays out of his expertise. In order for his view on GBs to be valid, again, you would have to follow his entire strategy, it is not valid for people playing any other way. And some of his advice on military buildings is just crap.

The information there is very valid for everyone. I would say its "In order for his view on GBs to be valid, again, you would have to UNDERSTAND his entire strategy". Once you understand the ups and downs, you can decide if you want to use it. Each GB should be valued, and CR gives quite a lot of thought about how to value the GB.
I think, personally, that its really hard to evaluate GB correctly in the game. There are many variables to consider, some of them appear after months of playing. CR, while having a very very centered POV, shows and explain lots of those variables. At minimum it will help you value your GB from a much broader overview.

 

[Algona]

I never tell new players to build those buildings. I said I am of the mind, pertaining to what I think according to my specific city situation. I do like the vast majority of your posts, Algona, but you need to post my entire statement:

I do? Why?

In a thread answering a question for inexperienced players about what GBs not to build.

"every GB can be useful"

Tell me how that statement is anything but misleading to a new player?

Do I I need to include the rest of your paragraph because it implies you could use Colosseum as a hyper-crappy production building in a mid to late game strategy implemented by experienced players based on concepts that inexperienced players do not have the fundamental knowledge to understand or use and that's why "every GB can be useful"?

If that's not it, can you please explain how Colosseum can be useful?

Please quit misleading new players.