Drummers and Colorguard

[DeletedUser23828]

Isn't about time that these units were revisited and revised so that they were actually usefull? As it is they serve no purpose and are not used except in the earliest of eras because they weaken your army at all ages. Whats the point after all having these buildings and units if they can't be used? Seems rather foolish to have created them in the first place if they were just an oddity and never really meant to actually be used by players. I suggest they should both be heavy units(like champions) for the age the building was obtained in and like champions the building can be upgraded as you proceed. This minor change would make these units usable and fall in line with champions without throwing anything out of balance. As it stands now these are just annoyance rewards that are trashed upon receipt.

 

[DeletedUser29623]

YES

 

[Salsuero]

...they serve no purpose and are not used except in the earliest of eras because they weaken your army at all ages. Whats the point after all having these buildings and units if they can't be used? Seems rather foolish to have created them in the first place if they were just an oddity and never really meant to actually be used by players.

I use a Drummer in my defense in HMA. I will occasionally fight with them, if the opponent isn't terribly worthy. I use them for GvG on the Iron Age and EMA map... probably would use them on HMA too because they are still pretty useful there, but I haven't fought HMA in GvG yet to say for certain. Hell I used them once to fight on the Modern Era map because the opponent was 8 Rogues. I couldn't have fought without them because they are All Age units and that's all I could use for that age unless I used all Rogues... which is obviously a huge risk depending on who gets hit first. It was fun to just pick off all the Rogues with my lowly Drummers. I'm not disagreeing with your desire to "revisit" them. But they're hardly useless.

I suggest they should both be heavy units(like champions) for the age the building was obtained in and like champions the building can be upgraded as you proceed.

Champions are "Fast Units" not "Heavy Units" and if the Drummers and Color Guards were also Fast Units, then why would you need Champions?

This minor change would make these units usable and fall in line with champions without throwing anything out of balance.

Balance? Well considering I have way more Drummers than I do Champions, I think it would rebalance quite nicely in my favor. Not sure that's what others might think is fair.

As it stands now these are just annoyance rewards that are trashed upon receipt.

Says you.

 

[Darkbox]

... Champions are "Fast Units" not "Heavy Units" and if the Drummers and Color Guards were also Fast Units, then why would you need Champions? ...

Champions are Fast Units up to Modern Era. Afterward (Postmodern and up), they are Heavy Units.

 

[DeletedUser25166]

Drummer school, 4x4 no pop, 4% attack boost. Enough said, worth it
Drummers for NPC tile sieges.
Highly valuable, even up to FE.

 

[Salsuero]

Champions are Fast Units up to Modern Era. Afterward (Postmodern and up), they are Heavy Units.

I see... well since Drummers are intended for the lower ages, I didn't even think about what Champions might be in later ages... but my question still remains: if the Drummers and Color Guards were the same as Champions (as the OP suggests), why would you need Champions? In other words, what would make them special?

 

[qaccy]

@war1dog
Just because Drummers and Color Guards are not statistically relevant in the later ages doesn't mean they're not useful regarding the overall game. These units were introduced and marketed towards newer players, and those who prefer to languish--I mean gather resources in the lower ages and move through research at a more relaxed pace. They can still hold their own up to and including HMA. It's also in the lower ages where their bonuses may have more of an impact, since players typically don't have monstrous GBs at this stage of the game.

As @stallion119 pointed out, even once they've been rendered non-viable for actual combat, they can still serve a purpose being used as 'filler' units when it comes to GvG. Especially if you happen to have Alcatraz and you've lived with amassing unattached (not necessarily by choice) for a prolonged period of time.

Anyway, to repeat, you may not place much value in the lower ages of the game but that's what these units were primarily designed for and there, they're quite useful. So they're not exactly 'just annoyance rewards', you're just personally dismissive of the areas where they were designed to have a strong purpose.

That being said, I don't see why they can't follow a similar design to champions, as you outlined. Their effects aren't so powerful that they can't also have their stats increase with age, though perhaps this was done to avoid having to create new art for each age like they've done with the Champion (although the unit itself has devolved to just being a pallete-swap of the normal heavy unit of the age).

 

[Ta 152H]

People who think Drummers aren't viable in any age don't know how to use them. I've used them in very high ages, and they are still good.

Inno "fixed" them about a year ago, and gave them +6% att/def to go along with their extra hit point. That extra hit point causes additional damage too, as well as makes the unit harder to kill. It always takes two hits to kill, because AO never works on it, so it's pretty good cannon fodder.

The major downside is, rogues like to turn into them. So, unless you're going without rogues, which happens mostly on the continent map, they're generally problematic because you can give up one unit for the boosts, but giving up two just doesn't work at all.

Color guards just suck. Their camp gives nothing, and although they give +12%, they don't give that very important extra hit point.

As many people have said, you can lay sieges with them as well, since they are ageless.

The camp does take population though, but it's pretty low. The extra +4% attack, while small, still adds even more to the package. But, the Traz does seem to like making drummers, so that's something else to consider.

I do think it would be better if they did have an age, and started with 4% boost at BA, and moved up to 8% boost at FE+, eventually to 9% at the next age. Since this is to the base score, it would keep the boost better balanced than a flat 6%.

 

[DeletedUser17135]

Wouldn't it be crazy if players discovered that there were a real reason for drummers and color guards to exist, and that Inno DID hava a method to their madness? I have always suspected that these two 'special' units have still not had their real abilities discovered, and most people just go with the prevailing opinion that they are worthless and throw them away.
I submit that using one or both of these in an original siege army gives their bonuses to the support factor of that sector, once acquired...So if the support factor of that sector is 75% , it will result in that sector having 87%... giving a great advantage to the defense of that sector...Not only that but it extends the 87% to all of the defending armies placed in that sector.. And color guards benefits don't stack, so only one color guard per army can be used for benefit.... And what if adding a drummer with the color guard in that siege army also gives that sector an additional 6% PLUS an extra hit point for all units- Bonuses which extend to ALL the DAs that are added to the sector after the sector is acquired?
Wouldn't that be a bodacious exploit to use in defending your GvsG sectors?
And what if, once your guild wins that sector and locks in the color guard and drummer bonuses to all of the DA's placed there, You could then replace the original siege army containing the color guard and drummer with a stronger army, of say ,8 champions or the like- but still would retain the bonuses from those units for that sector? Would they be valuable then?
I just have a problem thinking that Inno would release 'special' units to the game and then they turn out to be useless...I have always believed that there is some undiscovered exploitable ability to both of them...and that they could be used together, somehow......

 

[Ta 152H]

Wouldn't it be crazy if players discovered that there were a real reason for drummers and color guards to exist, and that Inno DID hava a method to their madness? I have always suspected that these two 'special' units have still not had their real abilities discovered, and most people just go with the prevailing opinion that they are worthless and throw them away.
I submit that using one or both of these in an original siege army gives their bonuses to the support factor of that sector, once acquired...So if the support factor of that sector is 75% , it will result in that sector having 87%... giving a great advantage to the defense of that sector...Not only that but it extends the 87% to all of the defending armies placed in that sector.. And color guards benefits don't stack, so only one color guard per army can be used for benefit.... And what if adding a drummer with the color guard in that siege army also gives that sector an additional 6% PLUS an extra hit point for all units- Bonuses which extend to ALL the DAs that are added to the sector after the sector is acquired?
Wouldn't that be a bodacious exploit to use in defending your GvsG sectors?
And what if, once your guild wins that sector and locks in the color guard and drummer bonuses to all of the DA's placed there, You could then replace the original siege army containing the color guard and drummer with a stronger army, of say ,8 champions or the like- but still would retain the bonuses from those units for that sector? Would they be valuable then?
I just have a problem thinking that Inno would release 'special' units to the game and then they turn out to be useless...I have always believed that there is some undiscovered exploitable ability to both of them...and that they could be used together, somehow......

First of all, even the most unimaginative person knows these are effective units at lower ages, so they are not worthless. At higher ages, some people believe they are, but I am not one of them, at least with respect to the drummer.

The rest of the stuff you're basing on nothing, it seems. I've sieged with drummers, and after taking it, it does not increase the defensive boost (at least it does not show up on the scores), and it does not give units another hit point. It does if you leave it with the defensive army, of course.

Drummers can always be used, except for two major problems. You really never want to use them with rogues after IA, or EMA (at best). Since rogues are commonly used, this is a real handicap. Also, if you have a Traz, it seems to love to crank these guys out, so you end up with far more than you probably want.

Color Guards are significantly inferior, not only because they help less in battle, but also because they give no attack boost from the barracks.

 

[DeletedUser17135]

I have personally SEEN the 75% support factor raised to 87% for a sector taken with a color guard in the siege army....I know it works... The rest I submit for tinkering with

 

[Eleanor The Krusty]

I’ve won two sets of drummer schools now, and I suspect I’m about to win a 3rd because that’s my luck lol. I put one of them on my city, but I’m pretty sure I’m gonna sell the others in the auction house. Should I just dump them? I’m in high Middle ages

 

[Graviton]

That's what the AD is for. I've never planted a drummer school.

 

[Super Catanian]

I’ve won two sets of drummer schools now, and I suspect I’m about to win a 3rd because that’s my luck lol. I put one of them on my city, but I’m pretty sure I’m gonna sell the others in the auction house. Should I just dump them? I’m in high Middle ages

At that age, the stats of the Units are considerably higher than Military Drummers and Color Guards. While I guess you can keep them for the extra point of armor, consider getting rid of them by the Late Middle Ages.

 

[Salsuero]

I’ve won two sets of drummer schools now, and I suspect I’m about to win a 3rd because that’s my luck lol. I put one of them on my city, but I’m pretty sure I’m gonna sell the others in the auction house. Should I just dump them? I’m in high Middle ages

I still have one Drummer School. Sold the rest to the Antique Dealer. I planted one back in HMA and used my Alcatraz to grab a bunch of Drummers to use as fodder. They're good for the extra defensive point and they aren't terrible units in HMA. But you'll probably stop using them by the time you get to LMA, if not sooner. No reason to get rid of all of them since your inventory doesn't have a hard limit that I'm aware of (and if it does, you're nowhere near it)... but there are many better ways to use that 4x4 space in such a low age where space is truly limited, in my opinion.

 

[Eleanor The Krusty]

Yeah they’re using up valuable space and resources and not doing a whole lot. Plus you only get 2, then it asks for diamonds to give you more

 

[Falconwing]

Attack of the Necrothreads! Ahhh!!! Run away, run away!

 

[DeletedUser32973]

Hmm will drummers prevent one-hit kills in super high attrition GBG? Also, how does it impact AR targeting? I suppose the question is, can a unit do 11 damage?

 

[Salsuero]

Attack of the Necrothreads!

I don't see this one as qualifying since it's not a proposal and the person who revived it had a real question... as opposed to a silly +1 or something else entirely unnecessary. Could an entirely new post have been made? Sure. But that's just adding to clutter as well. Someone took the time to see if a related post exists instead of starting a new one... and I'm not opposed to that thinking when there's a real question to be asked. We could use more of the "search first" thinking in the Proposals folder, honestly.