The -upper era- Trades -> Joker / Scammer

[jimakoskx]

Two friends start playing foe !!!

For the simplicity of discussion we suppose that those 2 friends will play for 2 years
...till they got job at NASA headquarters !!!

Their names Bruce and Lewis !
Because Bruce had a friend -old foe player- that suggest him to not advance in eras
Bruce decided to stay in Bronze era and .. even if he told his friend Lewis ..what his friend had suggest
Lewis decided to procced to Late era (middle ages)

Half of a year passed and both , Bronze and Late , were very happy playing foe , fighting in things like GvG etc...
Each .. with his own army ,, with his own expansions,,,,ok,,,Lewis had some more map expansions.
Metal expansions ,,, they both had equal ...

All good so far...

Bruce at Bronze age no need other than Marble,Wood,Dye,Stone and something to drink.
Lewis from Late ,,, was in need for other goods like Gunpowder and of cource had his own Wine etc
(Wine that somehow,,somewhere ,,, we suppose and we believe him that was in need even occasioanlly for WINE)
--(but may exist some other perspective point here!)

And for the simplicity of our story ,,, and computations
we learned that Lewis pursuade his friend Bruce to
start making (permanently) some trades because
a)Bruce will need all those Gunpowders (after retire from Nasa and come back to play)
b)Lewis for some reason was ... in constant need of Wine/Marble etc ,,, from Bronze era !!!
b.b.)Lewis for some reason wanted to have only Late MIddle Ages FACTORIES !!!

With all that 'suppose and hypothetical things' ,,, we keep in our story !!!
-------------------
And Lewis wanted to trade as 2:1 / era !!!

Basically lets start with number 10 (TEN)

Every 8 hours Lewis wanted 10 Wines (Bruce was productive on Wines)
and every 8 hours Bruce succesfully have been pursuaded by his friend that
....all those Gunpowders that he will stock will not be in VAIN
because after retirement from Nasa will play again and ofcource will advance era (if his friend is still alive ofcource!)


So both for their hapiness on game they agreed FIRST OF ALL
that they need 10 Wines and 10 Gunpowders for 8 hours.(as guild mates)

Now here some basic computations for Bruce.

For 10 Wines/8 hours Bruce build
a)Wine Factory. -104 pop - 9 squares need 200 coin and 200 supplies for 10 Wines
b)104 pop / 32 pop of a Challet = 3.25 Houses (from his era)
c)Luckily because Fruit Farm (5x4) -50 pop 130/hour=1040 supplies / 8 hour
he build only 200 supplies need for 8 hour Wine Order / 1040 (income) = 0.1923 Fruit Farms
Luckily because 0.1923 Fruit Farms spend *50 pop = 9.61 population ..only !!!

So basically had not 3.25 house to cover Wine Factory
but (104+9.61)/ 32 = 113.6/32 = 3.55 Chalett houses !!!

Squares
3.55 x 4sq + 0.1923 x 20sq + 1 Wine Factory x 9sq =14.2 + 3.846 + 9 = 27 suares !

Coins ..ok...Challet gives 80/4 hours =160 /8 hours
160*3.55 houses= 568 so -200 =368 coins were constantly being earned from that production !!
Bruce constantly will use his 27 squares for his game fun !!!
OK till here?
-------
Now lets compute Lewis from Late era
For 10 Gunpowders Lewis build
a)Fun factory (3x3) -580 pop -9 sq need 3200 coin and sup for 10 Gunpowder
b)Appartment houses offer 205 pop so we want 580/205=2.83 houses to cover basic Factory
Appartment coins 440 per 8 hours and saddly 2.83 houses *440 = 1245 coins < 3200 coins need for Gunpowder order.
So going more houses like 3200 coins /440 = 7.27 appartments
But like Bruce had spare coins ,,, Lewis now hasv spare population
7.27 appartments *205 =1490 pop
1490 - 580 = 910

c)As for supplies late MIddle Ages 1 Brewery (3x3)-136 pop 400 /hour (3200 supplies per 8 hours!!!)...luckilly!
So from those 910 -136 = 774 spare poplation !!! but what to do?...he used this for army things!!!

Total squares for Lewis
7.27 appartments * 4sq + 1 Gunpowder Factory * 9sq + 1 Brewery x 9sq =29.08 + 9 + 9 = 47 squares .

----
We did basic computation and reviwing we look that
Bruce and Lewis
CONSTANTLY WERE USING
their 27 vs 47 squares
happilly producing 10 Wines and 10 Gunpowder that they agreed to produce and exchange !!!

And one day Lewis told to his friend Bruce that they better follow the 2:1/era RULE !!

Now lets see.
10 Gunpowders(Late) for 20 Bricks (High)
20 Bricks (High) for 40 Copper(Early)
40 Copper(Early) for 80 Cloth(Iron)
80 Iron.... for 160 Wines (Bronze)

And the time came that Lewis wanted to say to his friend that
-Hey Bruce,,,we both want to play (fighting etc)
-and we both ,,, beyond others we want PER 8 hours

10 Gunpowders that i will take care
and 160 Wines !!! that you must be serius and help for the gaming satisfaction of both of us.
-And ok Bruce ,,,dont worry that you can produce 10 Wines with just 27 squares !
because to satisfy me ...you m,ust use 160 / 27 squares =
= 5.9 times ... the hole ARCHITECTURE COMPLEX that above we 'compute' (houses,factories,supplies)

----
And they returned from Nasa....and had a little conversation each other !!!!

What do you think about?!!!
Is there any other factor that we must take in our computations ?
..or it is really a joke?!!!

feel free to express your computations nice,easilly read etc
and ofcource you can (as always for some of us)...bring the post out of order
(meaning start jokes etc)

No problem..just iof you have time tell your opinion !!!
Maybe i am too old or it is late and i must go sleep!
Goodnight everyone !!!

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

This had already been implemented (in a smaller form) when players claimed some goods had to be based on the size of the factory..And an alternative ratio was created and used by some Guilds. Which (I'm very happy to say) finally died about two years ago. Now everyone is relatively successful using the standard Foe 2:1 to up one Era, !:2 to go down one Era.

Players are totally free to trade multiple Eras and many do. at 1:1.5 etc as they see fit. (within the 1:2 2:1 and any ratio between those).. I feel that the fact players can trade multi-Era allows for a huge range of value to cost. And the fact a player in Bronze can be trading 1:1 for goods from Titan Era.. says all I need to prove it is flexible as is.

To really calculate the 'fair' (I call Communist) exchange rate one should also consider what the player really uses. Since Event buildings give far more Goods. That even building took so many hours to acquire and may have cost Diamonds. Also to keep a city going needs time. So maybe the hours of play per day should be a factor too. Plus a huge number of other real factors most players do not think about. The fact to Era up costs a bundle of time and effort to get there, plus Goods FPs Supplies Coins and a lot of time too. All of those things are actually factored into the seemingly simple 2:1 ratio

Again... maybe a player who is smarter should be able to make a profit. Why stick to a Communist form of trade. When only the equal cost of labor and materials is all that is allowed? Why not scarcity? Why not"A fool and his whatever are easily parted" Capitalism???
And I would say for every factor your 'system' tried to add, Someone else would argue for a different value/ratio of values for all the possible factors contributing to the production of Goods.

The fact the system as it is now is simple, allows everyone to take part in a system of trade that works well enough to last many years (without breaking down) When an alternative with at least a part of your notions was started. it sputtered out after about two years of s fitful life in only a fraction of Guilds. (Believe me they tried had to force players to use it within those Guilds.)

 

[Emberguard]

Half of a year passed and both , Bronze and Late , were very happy playing foe , fighting in things like GvG etc...

That’s an impossible scenario. Bronze Age doesn‘t have access to GvG or much of anything

Lewis from Late ,,, was in need for other goods like Gunpowder and of cource had his own Wine etc

Late Middle Ages wouldn’t need Wine in large quantities if at all. Research doesn’t need it. Treasury can’t take it. So it’d be just the Map and Great Buildings

And one day Lewis told to his friend Bruce that they better follow the 2:1/era RULE !!

Keep in mind the player that Aged up took the time to do so. If you’re requesting goods that would take a week, a month, a year or whatever before you’d reach that Age then it’s not just X space taken. It’s X space + time required to obtain relative to your current progress

If you believe 2:1 is unfair fine. Either find someone else to trade with, or take the time to Age up instead of requiring someone else to put in the work to do so. Players in higher Ages usually don’t need lower Aged goods nearly as much as lower Aged players need higher Aged goods.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Players in higher Ages usually don’t need lower Aged goods nearly as much as lower Aged players need higher Aged goods.

The Market is filled to the brim with down trades. (And trade at 1:1 to help out with Quests)
Up trades are snatched up as fast as they get placed.
I believe the Down trades dominate because a good portion of players need additional prevuous Era goods for Negotiating, and for multi trade down to help lower Era players in Guild to fill the Treasury. Since many lower Era players never add enough to cover their own Treasury burdens. And Higher Era players try to help out.

 

[xivarmy]

I happen to agree 2:1 is not remotely fair from the perspective of the effort that goes into making them if there were no supply/demand issues.

Neither do I believe that the non-2:1 fair trade calculator was ideal (the one I was familiar with was based on coin/supply costs not squares - though I heard a few people advancing that squares should be incorporated too - to punish paper and rope spammers - but that's a nonexistent problem now as very few goods come from goods buildings and noone much cares about HMA and CA goods). It addressed that 2:1 was ridiculous but not in a terribly logical way.

Another interesting point of view is how many ranking points the game considers each good as worth (I could donate my goods to treasury or trade my goods to you and then donate them to treasury for the same number of points) - but that gets complicated again. And only a few people actually care about ranking points (those few people should arguably be incentivized to trade down though at whatever rate they can get consistently because it's almost never anywhere close to 2:1 to get more points from donating lower goods than higher ones - but I think they mostly focus on just maxing out fights).

Absent extraordinary supply/demand pressure, I happen to believe cuberoot(2) is an approximately "fair" ratio for two adjacent ages. (~1.26). I initially based this around what happens to LoA/SMB/etc when you move from PE to ME as opposed to other ages. This makes the 2 Colonial produced goods worth the same as if it made 1 ME good and thus advancing to ME is "normal" rather than a downgrade for those buildings. That hardly matters anymore, but it also generally gives a good degree of flexibility of ranges of goods trades you can post "fairly".

BUT there *is* supply/demand issues. Specifically in general there's an utter lack of demand because of not much use for lower age goods (negotiation, but that's mostly only 1 era prior and most people don't do too much of it). With the very rare exceptions when someone high age stumbles across a sudden need for thousands of some low age good, but that's not a consistent demand just a rare opportunity to turn your gunpowder into something like SAM goods that said high age player had in excess to offer up for what they want *now*.

Because of this rather dry demand when it comes to trading down, there is no liquidity to the market and the rates are just whatever the few down-traders in existence will offer - usually 2:1 one age gap (but sometimes you'll find someone just trying to turn their excess high era goods into specific needs en masse without all the fiddling with in between steps - if you have those needs in stock you can make big gains) Your main options if you want higher age goods, consistently:

1) Make friends with someone who wants to help you and will take trades they don't need
2) Buy them with FP deals
3) Age up yourself and make them - screw the extortionists (arguably the "right" option unless you have a very very strong reason to camp).

 

[Dominator - X]

Two friends start playing foe !!!

For the simplicity of discussion we suppose that those 2 friends will play for 2 years
...till they got job at NASA headquarters !!!

Their names Bruce and Lewis !
Because Bruce had a friend -old foe player- that suggest him to not advance in eras
Bruce decided to stay in Bronze era and .. even if he told his friend Lewis ..what his friend had suggest
Lewis decided to procced to Late era (middle ages)

Half of a year passed and both , Bronze and Late , were very happy playing foe , fighting in things like GvG etc...
Each .. with his own army ,, with his own expansions,,,,ok,,,Lewis had some more map expansions.
Metal expansions ,,, they both had equal ...

All good so far...

Bruce at Bronze age no need other than Marble,Wood,Dye,Stone and something to drink.
Lewis from Late ,,, was in need for other goods like Gunpowder and of cource had his own Wine etc
(Wine that somehow,,somewhere ,,, we suppose and we believe him that was in need even occasioanlly for WINE)
--(but may exist some other perspective point here!)

And for the simplicity of our story ,,, and computations
we learned that Lewis pursuade his friend Bruce to
start making (permanently) some trades because
a)Bruce will need all those Gunpowders (after retire from Nasa and come back to play)
b)Lewis for some reason was ... in constant need of Wine/Marble etc ,,, from Bronze era !!!
b.b.)Lewis for some reason wanted to have only Late MIddle Ages FACTORIES !!!

With all that 'suppose and hypothetical things' ,,, we keep in our story !!!
-------------------
And Lewis wanted to trade as 2:1 / era !!!

Basically lets start with number 10 (TEN)

Every 8 hours Lewis wanted 10 Wines (Bruce was productive on Wines)
and every 8 hours Bruce succesfully have been pursuaded by his friend that
....all those Gunpowders that he will stock will not be in VAIN
because after retirement from Nasa will play again and ofcource will advance era (if his friend is still alive ofcource!)


So both for their hapiness on game they agreed FIRST OF ALL
that they need 10 Wines and 10 Gunpowders for 8 hours.(as guild mates)

Now here some basic computations for Bruce.

For 10 Wines/8 hours Bruce build
a)Wine Factory. -104 pop - 9 squares need 200 coin and 200 supplies for 10 Wines
b)104 pop / 32 pop of a Challet = 3.25 Houses (from his era)
c)Luckily because Fruit Farm (5x4) -50 pop 130/hour=1040 supplies / 8 hour
he build only 200 supplies need for 8 hour Wine Order / 1040 (income) = 0.1923 Fruit Farms
Luckily because 0.1923 Fruit Farms spend *50 pop = 9.61 population ..only !!!

So basically had not 3.25 house to cover Wine Factory
but (104+9.61)/ 32 = 113.6/32 = 3.55 Chalett houses !!!

Squares
3.55 x 4sq + 0.1923 x 20sq + 1 Wine Factory x 9sq =14.2 + 3.846 + 9 = 27 suares !

Coins ..ok...Challet gives 80/4 hours =160 /8 hours
160*3.55 houses= 568 so -200 =368 coins were constantly being earned from that production !!
Bruce constantly will use his 27 squares for his game fun !!!
OK till here?
-------
Now lets compute Lewis from Late era
For 10 Gunpowders Lewis build
a)Fun factory (3x3) -580 pop -9 sq need 3200 coin and sup for 10 Gunpowder
b)Appartment houses offer 205 pop so we want 580/205=2.83 houses to cover basic Factory
Appartment coins 440 per 8 hours and saddly 2.83 houses *440 = 1245 coins < 3200 coins need for Gunpowder order.
So going more houses like 3200 coins /440 = 7.27 appartments
But like Bruce had spare coins ,,, Lewis now hasv spare population
7.27 appartments *205 =1490 pop
1490 - 580 = 910

c)As for supplies late MIddle Ages 1 Brewery (3x3)-136 pop 400 /hour (3200 supplies per 8 hours!!!)...luckilly!
So from those 910 -136 = 774 spare poplation !!! but what to do?...he used this for army things!!!

Total squares for Lewis
7.27 appartments * 4sq + 1 Gunpowder Factory * 9sq + 1 Brewery x 9sq =29.08 + 9 + 9 = 47 squares .

----
We did basic computation and reviwing we look that
Bruce and Lewis
CONSTANTLY WERE USING
their 27 vs 47 squares
happilly producing 10 Wines and 10 Gunpowder that they agreed to produce and exchange !!!

And one day Lewis told to his friend Bruce that they better follow the 2:1/era RULE !!

Now lets see.
10 Gunpowders(Late) for 20 Bricks (High)
20 Bricks (High) for 40 Copper(Early)
40 Copper(Early) for 80 Cloth(Iron)
80 Iron.... for 160 Wines (Bronze)

And the time came that Lewis wanted to say to his friend that
-Hey Bruce,,,we both want to play (fighting etc)
-and we both ,,, beyond others we want PER 8 hours

10 Gunpowders that i will take care
and 160 Wines !!! that you must be serius and help for the gaming satisfaction of both of us.
-And ok Bruce ,,,dont worry that you can produce 10 Wines with just 27 squares !
because to satisfy me ...you m,ust use 160 / 27 squares =
= 5.9 times ... the hole ARCHITECTURE COMPLEX that above we 'compute' (houses,factories,supplies)

----
And they returned from Nasa....and had a little conversation each other !!!!

What do you think about?!!!
Is there any other factor that we must take in our computations ?
..or it is really a joke?!!!

feel free to express your computations nice,easilly read etc
and ofcource you can (as always for some of us)...bring the post out of order
(meaning start jokes etc)

No problem..just iof you have time tell your opinion !!!
Maybe i am too old or it is late and i must go sleep!
Goodnight everyone !!!

This is the US forum. It shows it in the browser address bar. The US forum (good or bad - right or wrong) uses the English language. You may want to try using that language in a fluent manner. Fluent, meaning in an articulate and coherent flow. Typo's are understood, but that tripe above is not due to typo's. If you are so passionate about the issue you speak of, and want others to care about it, at least take the time and put in the effort to post in a way that shows it. Lazy posting will turn off more than it will attract (good or bad - right or wrong).

 

[Graviton]

This is the US forum. It shows it in the browser address bar. The US forum (good or bad - right or wrong) uses the English language. You may want to try using that language in a fluent manner. Fluent, meaning in an articulate and coherent flow. Typo's are understood, but that tripe above is not due to typo's. If you are so passionate about the issue you speak of, and want others to care about it, at least take the time and put in the effort to post in a way that shows it. Lazy posting will turn off more than it will attract (good or bad - right or wrong).

To continue this theme, if you're gonna chide someone for misuse of the language you probably shouldn't use an apostrophe to attempt to make a word plural, because it doesn't, it makes the word possessive.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Grammar police. The worst sort of low life.
it's where you go after all the insults have been applied and they did not have the desired effect.

 

[Graviton]

Grammar police. The worst sort of low life.

I don't usually correct anybody but when somebody misspells words in a diatribe about grammar, especially a native speaker, somebody's gotta do it.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

To continue this theme, if you're gonna chide someone for misuse of the language you probably shouldn't use an apostrophe to attempt to make a word plural, because it doesn't, it makes the word possessive.

Did you know that the comma is the most used punctuation mark in the english language ? It is also the most misused.


Continuing this theme, if you're going to chide someone for misuse of the language, you probably shouldn't use an apostrophe to attempt to make a word plural. It doesn't make the word plural , it makes the word possessive.

 

[Graviton]

Did you know that the comma is the most used punctuation mark in the english language ? It is also the most misused.


Continuing this theme, if you're going to chide someone for misuse of the language, you probably shouldn't use an apostrophe to attempt to make a word plural. It doesn't make the word plural , it makes the word possessive.

My sentence isn't grammatically incorrect. Also, English should be capitalized.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

worri, Gramatakle Ingleesh not worri worrI my

 

[jaymoney23456]

My sentence isn't grammatically incorrect. Also, English should be capitalized.

You wrote: I don't usually correct anybody but when somebody misspells words in a diatribe about grammar, especially a native speaker, somebody's gotta do it.
You have written a run-on sentence. Somebody's gotta do it should be a seperate sentence.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

I only come to the Forums to the read the endless petty bickering! Endless hours of entertainment!

 

[Graviton]

We're all the way in the weeds here, so why not:

You have written a run-on sentence. Somebody's gotta do it should be a seperate sentence.

Not necessarily. From Grammarly.com:

If you don’t connect the clauses with a semicolon or comma with a conjunction, the sentence is incorrect.

Did you know that the comma is the most used punctuation mark in the english language ? It is also the most misused.

You should place a comma before “especially” when you’re using it as a parenthetical element or as a sentence-finishing clause...You can place a comma before “especially” when it’s the first word of a parenthetical element or when it’s the first word of a sentence-final clause. Typically, we’ll place a comma before “especially” more often than we would after because it’s more likely it starts a new clause.

You're welcome.

 

[Emberguard]

You wrote: I don't usually correct anybody but when somebody misspells words in a diatribe about grammar, especially a native speaker, somebody's gotta do it.
You have written a run-on sentence. Somebody's gotta do it should be a seperate sentence.

Introducing the Oxford comma Also known as the serial comma

I only come to the Forums to the read the endless petty bickering! Endless hours of entertainment!

Grammar discussions are strangely entertaining when done respectfully

 

[Dominator - X]

To continue this theme, if you're gonna chide someone for misuse of the language you probably shouldn't use an apostrophe to attempt to make a word plural, because it doesn't, it makes the word possessive.

Funny. You are focused on the error and NOT the message.

 

[Graviton]

Funny. You are focused on the error and NOT the message.

Oh irony.

 

[Dominator - X]

Oh irony.

Irony? No, quite the opposite. Leaning more towards prescient.

 

[Darkest.Knight]

This is just a bit non-game related, lol.