Guidance on battles

[DeletedUser27889]

I'm wondering if any of the more experienced/better fighters would be able to help me improve my game. I find it very difficult/ impossible (for me at least) to finish level 3 in GE. I have a hard time choosing the correct units for double wave battles when they are mixed units. I thought if I wrote out some of the issues I'm having and proposed a mock fight someone might be able to steer me in the correct direction.

For reference I have 42% attack and defense, I have used the tavern boost, it gets me further but I still have issues and fight in LMA.

Let's say these were the units I was up against (Sorry I had to use my army as a reference I negotiated my way through the rest of GE so I was unable to SS an actual battle)



Now from my understanding my correct choice of units based at bonuses should be:

• 1 Longbow archer -For the Imperial Guard bonus
• 1 Cannon -For the imperial guard bonus
• 3-Heavy Knights -For the archers/cannons
• 2 Great Sword Warriors - For the heavy knight bonus
• 1- Imperial guard -to take out the great sword warrior.

But the problems I keep coming up with are:

• I will hold my units back behind the line so the archers/knights cannot reach them on the first shot
• After every unit has moved closer I still find myself taking the first blows but at least I can retaliate.
• The cannon will immediately hit the archer first, the next time the opposing heavy knight goes it takes out my archer. This is usually before the archer has gotten a shot off or has only gotten one shot off.
• The knight then go for the cannon, it's dead in 2 hits after getting off 1-2 shots.
• The archers on the opposing side will go right for my knights. Because the imperial guard and the great sword are slower, and now that the knights have taken hits from the archers all remaining units will turn on the knights while my units are still making their way to the center of the battlefield. With 3 knights taking blows from everything I will most likely be able to take out the opposing archers only and dent the cannon before all 3 are dead.
• Once my imperial guards and my great sword make it to the end of the battlefield they will be able to take out the rest of their guards, great swords and whatever is left of the cannon. I will win the battle.

• ….. But then I have a second battle to do with only 2 imperial guards and a great sword warrior all with injuries and I lose.

For these battles I tend to rely heaviest on my imperial guards and my great sword warriors. Though they don't have the correct bonuses against the units they last long enough to do the damage. I typically won't que up an archer or a cannon if there's knights in the opposing army because I know they will be dead before they can really do anything. And while this method does work, come around the 2n'd checkpoint of level 3 it no longer does. While the tavern boost does help on the attack side of things it's mainly the defense that is lacking. And while I am attempting to raise my GBs higher I have to think that considering it's only LMA how high of an attack/defense boost was the game intending for players to have at a lower era? I must be doing something wrong.

Can anybody tell me what units they would choose/how they would take on battles like this so I could possibly have a better understanding?

Also, what is the best method for fighting with rogues? I tend to use them as decoys to attract the opposing army close enough towards them, but keeping them away enough to not get hit (again I don't bother with them if there are cannons) this way I can surround them and get the first hit. I don't know if there's a better way but I'd be interested in hearing how others use them.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

Well rogues aren't used as decoys but as damage reduction. They absorb hits that would cause you damage if they hit a regular unit.

You don't provide a att/def boost for the enemy nor tell me how many rogues you have to use (nor tell me what's in the 2nd wave) so I would be better if you used an actual example. That being said I'd suggest the following:

2 Cannon
2 Archers
4 rogues (if you don't have rogues I'd actually suggest 4 Cannon and 4 Archers)

I would actually take out one of the Archers 1st with the cannon as you should be able to do so without taking damage. ideally you'd move 1 rogue into range of the enemy cannon but outside of the archers range or the knights 1st move. I think you are moving your units too far forward if your 1st turn basically allows you to avoid damage the 1st turn but not to get the 1st hit in.

So the Cannons take our the Archers (should be 2 hits to kill an Archer depending ultimately terrain boosts and the enemy boost). If you stay back far enough only the cannon and the knights will deliver damage (to the rogues). I would target the Great Sword Warrior with your Archers if he was in range early. Then you kill the knights while retreating from the enemy. The Guardsmen are slow and you should be able to do damage to them long before they get in range and you can polish them off. Take the cannon when convenient (i.e. when it won't put you in attacking range of a bunch of enemy units).

Your basic problem is likely how you move your units and your unit selection. Your whole strategy is close and engage which is generally a poor choice for a multi stage battle since as you've noticed you take a lot of damage.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

The att/deff boost for the enemy in that part of the map is 15% for LMA. Currently I have 25 rogues, I have 2 hideouts and built a traz about 2 weeks ago so hoping more will come soon. As for the 2nd battle I'm finding when I get to that point of the map it really doesn't matter, I just die. But I will try to pick a real battle from next weeks GE to use.

2 Cannon
2 Archers
4 rogues (if you don't have rogues I'd actually suggest 4 Cannon and 4 Archers)

This would actually have been the last thing I would have thought.

Your basic problem is likely how you move your units and your unit selection. Your whole strategy is close and engage which is generally a poor choice for a multi stage battle since as you've noticed you take a lot of damage.

This is extremely possible. So how do you stay far back enough? Do you just pass your turns until they get in range of you while using long rang units to pick them off as they approach? So, for the most part when it's a double wave you select units that are weaker, but are long range and will stay back regardless of the boosts against X unit?

This is very interesting info, a complete 180 from how I've been fighting the double waves. I am definitely going to try this out next week. Thank you very much for the info!

 

[DeletedUser14197]

You really should get all 3 gbs, zeus, cdm, and aachan up to level 9 or 10. I have an LMA city but am not in a guild right now so haven't completed GE in it for a couple of weeks. However, I am pretty sure I used at 6 rogues and 2 heavies (imperial guards) for most of my fights. There were a few fights I used 4 cannons and 4 rogues, I think when I was up against something like 4 cannons and 4 archers for example in which case I would take out the archers first. Occasionally I used 2 heavies, 2 cannons and 4 rogues. And I did use great sword warriers on a very raree occasion, probably with 6 rogues. I never used all 5 types of fighters, though if you could do that I suppose it would be more challenging. If I was up againt any cannons, I would move my heavies up only 2 or 3 tiles, and the rogues up as far as they would go on the first move. If I was not up against any cannons, I normally would hold them all back the first move, though perhaps that wasn't necessary. It comes from when people told me early on to let the enemy come to me. At any rate, with my bonuses that high, I could complete all 3 levels of GE, though I do believe there was one fight, maybe in level 2, that I would negotiate cause I found it difficult. It may have been against 4 cannons and 4 heavies, but I don't remember for sure.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

You really should get all 3 gbs, zeus, cdm, and aachan up to level 9 or 10.

I have two at 5 and one at 4. I am trying to keep leveling as I thought that was my problem until I realized, I'm only LMA how high of a level does the game expect me to have by now? That's when I figured I had to be doing something wrong.
Unless GE lvl 3 wasn't meant to be passable by all eras?

I normally would hold them all back the first move, though perhaps that wasn't necessary. It comes from when people told me early on to let the enemy come to me.

Staying back is what wolfhound mentioned too so I will definitely be trying that next week. Can I ask, with using so many rogues didn't you run out? I have 2 hideouts and 20 something unattached for 25 all together and a traz but with a day to make another did you always find yourself waiting on rogues to continue? Or did you use them more after you had a stockpile?

Thank you much for the tips honey!

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Well I'm not very experienced and don't know if I'm a better fighter but I'll comment anyway because I'd like to see how you do. But just a couple of questions. Are you utilizing the unit bar at the bottom to see which units are going to attack next? And are you hovering over enemy units to see their range?

The best thing about rogues is they take the first hit without damage, that's the beauty of them. So if you had 7 rogues and 1 regular unit you hold the one regular unit out of danger and advance the rogues so basically the enemy loses 7 attacks. Perhaps try 1 Heavy Knight and 7 Rogues using this method.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

But just a couple of questions. Are you utilizing the unit bar at the bottom to see which units are going to attack next? And are you hovering over enemy units to see their range?

Yes, definitely to both.

So if you had 7 rogues and 1 regular unit you hold the one regular unit out of danger and advance the rogues so basically the enemy loses 7 attacks. Perhaps try 1 Heavy Knight and 7 Rogues using this method.

I think I'm better understanding this rogue strategy now. Previously I would use 1-2 rogues as bait, keeping them as far away from damage as possible until I lured the oncoming army over to my side so I could A. Attack in Rogue form with the higher value then let it transform on the retaliation and B. Get their army within rage of my army to try and deal first blow. However now I'm understanding to use rogues more for their ignore first hit value and less for their high attack value and it's making more sense. The only thing that worries me is say my 1 attached or regular unit gets knocked out first, wouldn't the Rogues all then become useless? Or is that not something that would happen with the AI targeting rogues? Or do you specifically place or retreat that unit and not allow it to battle specifically so it doesn't get taken out?

Also if I were to go with 1 knight 7 Rogues and lets say 3 Rogues have transformed into the Knight but then my original Knight gets taken out, do the other Rogues transform into a Knight as well or does it die because the only Knights I have left of the battlefield are really transformed rogues?

How about when fighting rogues what is the best method? When fighting all rogues or many rogues I would go after the regular units first then when they are gone hit the rogues since their defense is so low. But when I am battling 2 rogues and the rest regular I will keep my units away from the rogue for as long as possible so as not to get attacked with the higher value but then I will eventually have to hit the rogue and transform it because it's getting too close to me and I won't be able to avoid it's rogue power hit any longer. Is this not the correct way?

Thank you all for your tips and replies. I am very much looking forward to trying these out in GE next week.

 

[DeletedUser14197]

I have two at 5 and one at 4. I am trying to keep leveling as I thought that was my problem until I realized, I'm only LMA how high of a level does the game expect me to have by now? That's when I figured I had to be doing something wrong.
Unless GE lvl 3 wasn't meant to be passable by all eras?

Staying back is what wolfhound mentioned too so I will definitely be trying that next week. Can I ask, with using so many rogues didn't you run out? I have 2 hideouts and 20 something unattached for 25 all together and a traz but with a day to make another did you always find yourself waiting on rogues to continue? Or did you use them more after you had a stockpile?

Thank you much for the tips honey!

I can see where having enough rogues would be a problem. When I first started doing GE in my LMA city, I had less rogue hideouts than I have now. I am not sure how many I had, but it was maybe 4. I have more since I won more in an event. Even so, I did wait for my rogues to heal to fight battles. I used my unattached on the early battles where I was pretty sure I was not going to lose more than one. I saved my attached for battles where I wasn't sure or figured I could lose more. However, I did get lucky and win 10 rogues twice from the relics. Now since I have so many rogue hideouts, I am good. I still may have to wait, but I can easily finish in time. I do not have a traz. If I had a traz and wanted rogues, I would limit how many other barracks I had, so it would be more likely to produce rogues. Also, you can open up more slots on your rogue hideouts, but it costs diamonds. In on city where I wanted more attached rogues, I opened up the last opening as it is the cheapest, 50 diamonds I believe, but would have to look to know for sure. You don't have to open them up in order. However, since you have a traz, you may not want to use diamonds to open up slots since you probably will end up with plenty of rogues and since also,you can only train one rogue at a time and it takes 24 hours unless your guild is a high enough level, so if 2 die in the same battle, you will only be able to train one that day and the next day the other one. However, sometimes they just lose health.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

I opened up the last opening as it is the cheapest, 50 diamonds I believe, but would have to look to know for sure. You don't have to open them up in order.

OMG I love you!! I never knew this I always went in order. The rogue spot I was 'up' to for both my hideouts was 300 while the last was 100. 300 seemed a bit pricy for me but seeing everyone here talk about rogues I was thinking of just bitting the bullet anyway since I obviously need more of them. But you were 100% right and I never would have known this had you not said anything. Thank you!! I now have 2 new rogue spots for 100 diamonds less than the spot I thought I had to unlock next.

If I had a traz and wanted rogues, I would limit how many other barracks I had, so it would be more likely to produce rogues.

Do you happen to know if the chance percentage is based on how many barracks you have? For instance I currently have 2 imperial guard barracks 2 knight and 2 greatswords along with the 2 hideouts. I was planning on going down to one of each (except for the hideouts) when my traz had stockpiled enough. Does having more of one mean you're more likely to generate that one from traz randomly? Or is it just calculated like I can make any amount of x variety so I have a random chance of getting x variety?

Also, and I'm sorry for all the questions but you're giving me really good tips, while this isn't exactly related is there anyway to see what units my traz has just generated? I try to look at my unattached units before and after to notice what changed but is there anything that just says '5 rogues have been added'? Or whatever unit it triggers.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

The only thing that worries me is say my 1 attached or regular unit gets knocked out first, wouldn't the Rogues all then become useless?

That's exactly right so be careful

Also if I were to go with 1 knight 7 Rogues and lets say 3 Rogues have transformed into the Knight but then my original Knight gets taken out, do the other Rogues transform into a Knight as well or does it die because the only Knights I have left of the battlefield are really transformed rogues?

The others will still transform.

How about when fighting rogues what is the best method? When fighting all rogues or many rogues I would go after the regular units first then when they are gone hit the rogues since their defense is so low. But when I am battling 2 rogues and the rest regular I will keep my units away from the rogue for as long as possible so as not to get attacked with the higher value but then I will eventually have to hit the rogue and transform it because it's getting too close to me and I won't be able to avoid it's rogue power hit any longer. Is this not the correct way?

Seems right to me. I beat two Battle Fortresses (AF) and 6 Rogues with 8 Attack Helicopters (CE) simply by killing off the Fortresses first. Against 2 Plasma Artillery/6 Rouge even better free win!

https://en.wiki.forgeofempires.com/index.php?title=Units

 

[DeletedUser27184]

If you got enough rogues you got 3 types of fights:

1/ In any fight without artillery I would go for one heavy unit and 7 rogues. I would build a defensive triangle at the top left side of the battle. And then all the enemy comes to me, they attack first (turn some rogues to Heavies) and I just kill them easily.
2/ If you have up to 3 artillery against you, you go with 1 heavy 7 rogues. Keep the heavy back, run the rogues as fast forward, killing along the way up to the artillery. Archers have highest priority, then artillery. Enemy heavies should be last.
3/ With 4 artillery and higher, or with total of 6 archers/artillery, I go with Champion (or any other fast unit you get) and 7 rogues. Keep the champion back. Run the rogues forward, and when they turn to champions, just start by killing archers, then artillery, then the rest.

If you face a fight with 2 waves, you MUST save your heavy/champion for the next wave. So, keep them back.
Also, try to save any rogue. Even with 1 hit point, at the nest fight the rogue will be able to sustain through any hit again as he starts as a rogue again.

 

[DeletedUser14197]

OMG I love you!! I never knew this I always went in order. The rogue spot I was 'up' to for both my hideouts was 300 while the last was 100. 300 seemed a bit pricy for me but seeing everyone here talk about rogues I was thinking of just bitting the bullet anyway since I obviously need more of them. But you were 100% right and I never would have known this had you not said anything. Thank you!! I now have 2 new rogue spots for 100 diamonds less than the spot I thought I had to unlock next.

Do you happen to know if the chance percentage is based on how many barracks you have? For instance I currently have 2 imperial guard barracks 2 knight and 2 greatswords along with the 2 hideouts. I was planning on going down to one of each (except for the hideouts) when my traz had stockpiled enough. Does having more of one mean you're more likely to generate that one from traz randomly? Or is it just calculated like I can make any amount of x variety so I have a random chance of getting x variety?

Also, and I'm sorry for all the questions but you're giving me really good tips, while this isn't exactly related is there anyway to see what units my traz has just generated? I try to look at my unattached units before and after to notice what changed but is there anything that just says '5 rogues have been added'? Or whatever unit it triggers.

Wish I could tell you, but I dont' know. I just know if I have barracks there is a chance that I will get that unit and taking it off the road does not change anything. All that matters is it is in your city.

 

[DeletedUser26154]

Also, what is the best method for fighting with rogues?

They are your cannon fodder, your front line hit sponges.
They absorb first attack damage so they are the ones to advance.
I usually go in with one strong unit with seven rogues.
Having 1 and 7 takes the guess work out of "what will the rogue be?".
Send in the 7 rogues while keeping your one non-rogue safely back.
Advance and use the non-rogue unit only when 100% safe to do so.
Try to get it into cover [trees for example] and out of harm's way.





Yes very one-sided combat bonuses. This is not a good example of a typical battle.

Having your one non-rogue as a ranged unit really helps.



I advanced my Rogues and kept my 1 non-rogue back.
The enemy "reveals" your rogues by attacking them.



No damage done if spread out among your rogues.
Now you have up to 8 units ready to fire.



Only mopping up required.



I determine the one unit's strength based on attack and defense bonuses.
If my one strong unit has overall better numbers I bring it in.
That usually means there will be a couple units that gain an attack and defense bonus against my units.
I destroy those advantaged units first if possible because that's usually the best thing to do. Usually.
If those advantaged units can't do me immediate harm, I will instead pick off the weaklings and use maneuver with terrain to buy time.


*Done Editing*

 

[DeletedUser26965]

I love story picture books!

 

[Ylisaveta]

Manda, I have 3 cities still in LMA. I don't have a Traz or many rogues in 2 of them. I do have at least a 66% boost - 93% in the other two. I use 8 archers, and usually lose 3 by the end of the 2nd wave. Take out the horses and sword warrior first wave, then run up the field as fast as you can to get at least one hit on the cannon. Take a hit from the Imps if you have to, and take them out last unless they're the only unit in range; they do the least damage in one hit. I have 3-4 archer barracks in each city and make many, many archers each week.

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

The att/deff boost for the enemy in that part of the map is 15% for LMA. Currently I have 25 rogues, I have 2 hideouts and built a traz about 2 weeks ago so hoping more will come soon. As for the 2nd battle I'm finding when I get to that point of the map it really doesn't matter, I just die. But I will try to pick a real battle from next weeks GE to use.

This would actually have been the last thing I would have thought.

This is extremely possible. So how do you stay far back enough? Do you just pass your turns until they get in range of you while using long rang units to pick them off as they approach? So, for the most part when it's a double wave you select units that are weaker, but are long range and will stay back regardless of the boosts against X unit?

This is very interesting info, a complete 180 from how I've been fighting the double waves. I am definitely going to try this out next week. Thank you very much for the info!

Generally speaking you want to use the units that are best against a particular unit.....however your example contained some of everything. While the Imp and 7 rogues would likely work it would depend on how fast the Imps are and how many hits you take in the mean time (even with the rogues converting the 1st hits). Since your scenario did not include an actual 2nd wave I went with the method I believe would give you the most practice at utilizing troop movement and terrain to help you fight the more difficult battles. My method relied on killing the enemy in stages (which is how they tend to arrive if you are doing a decent job of avoiding them and they are mixed troops).

the advantage of the Imp is that any close attack (such as the knight and the GSW) will result in a retal damage when they hit the rogue so that would be of assistance as well. You essentially need to practice using your troops to develop a style that will work for you. As a general rule though while the 1 heavy and 7 rogue combo is a strong one you'll run into enemies (depending on the era I suppose) that won't work out so well in the 2 wave battles. If you don't make sure to understand/practice something besides the "have mallet will hit" approach you may eventually find yourself in an age that you proclaim is totally unfair and crooked.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

Wow thank you all very much for taking the time to write this all out for me. I am eagerly awaiting the difficult part of GE to try all these out! Thank you again

 

[DeletedUser27889]

So in the earlier fights this week, the ones I didn't have much issue winning I utilized more rogues and this time let them be the first ones hit instead of keeping them back and my damage taken went way down and my points way up.

I found the best place I used them seemed to be in fights where I wasn't opposing a ranged unit so every time they got hit, not only did they not take damage but they dealt retaliation damage. Until I had used enough of them at once I didn't see what a big difference this made. But this was only when they transformed into a mele unit themselves.

But then I got to the impassable point, this week it was further than last week between the second and third towers of level 3. It seems to waver for me some weeks I can get all the way up to the last check point, some weeks I can only pass the first one. Anyway this is what I was up against:


These units have a 15% a/d bonus.

When I couldn't pass the second battle using my regular army choices I first tried 2 cannons 2 archers and 4 rogues. I died before the first battle. I then tried 4 cannons 4 rogues. I died before the end of the first battle.
I kept them all back, the cannons trasformed the rogues right away the opposing armies knights, archers and cannon killed my archers in the following round. I was able to take out their archers and their knights using my cannons who were getting taken out/injured. I then went for the approaching great swords and while I was able to pick them off before they took out all my cannons the opposing cannons did me in.

I don't know if I did something wrong or not but I referenced this thread and tried to follow the advice given. While it seemed to make a big point difference earlier on, I wasn't able to break through that point of no return I keep facing.

I was out of rogues and my tavern boost ended long before any were to be healed so I ended up just negotiating through the rest of GE again. Either I'm still doing something wrong or I'm just not going to be able to fight all of 3 with out a much higher GB boost.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

but I referenced this thread and tried to follow the advice given

but you didn't try mine

Perhaps try 1 Heavy Knight and 7 Rogues using this method.

 

[DeletedUser27889]

but you didn't try mine

You're quite right, I didn't, I'm sorry. By the time I did those two I was out of everything but unattached rogues and didn't have enough to want to risk killing them. Yours will be the first one I go for when I get to that spot next week. If that doesn't work I think rogues and imperial guards because of the added defense, which seems to be whats killing me off so quickly.