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Why I Don't Plunder

Graviton

Well-Known Member
So the OP is regarding why you chose not to plunder. And I'm seeing alot of responses as to why you choose to plunder. That was not the question. That has its own thread. I believe most people are well aware that many people choose to plunder, and with great results. That doesn't mean there is no place for a discussion on not choosing to plunder.

Okay, but what's to discuss? At least in the "Plunder Progress" thread there's crymail to post, or stories about how two neighbors happily plunder each other for two weeks and then become friends. What is topic-worthy about not plundering anybody, every day? That's an honest question, I'm not trying to troll anybody. So, people come to this thread to specifically talk about how they didn't plunder today?
 

DeletedUser

Besides, harming others really is not who I am, in real or virtual worlds. I much prefer to help people. The idea that harming others, even if it is ‘part of the game’, just seems so unnecessary.

So what’s your story?
Well, first, plundering and helping people are not mutually exclusive in this game. I plunder when the mood hits me and I have the free time. I much more often help out players in pretty much any way I can. I recently provided multiple guild members on V with Traz/Chat goods at no FP cost for whatever goods they had as a 1:2 trade ratio. I also leveled my Traz and Chat as soon as they got in the top 2 spots so they could get the last few BPs. Cost me hundreds of FP. On the same world, I occasionally run through the hood with my army and plunder anything left lying around. Helping people out doesn't make me a paragon of virtue, but by the same token, plundering doesn't make me evil, either. It's just a game.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
tl;dr: There are a lot of legitimate reasons to not plunder in game, but your sense of morality is not a good reason.

You know there are these things called "Goods Buildings" that will produce those quantities.

Goods Buildings - structures to supply Goods to a plunderer that do not take up space in the plunderer's city.

There are also several buildings like the "Shrine Of Knowledge", which are not too hard to acquire that will produce Forge Points.

Why not have both? SoKs in my city and take what I can from your city?

but most, if not all, empires that advanced themselves by pillaging others eventually crumpled

And pillaged cities fared worse. After years, decades, or centuries empires change and collapse. Don't be so quick to dismiss the positive lasting effects of aggressive empire on history.*

Besides, harming others really is not who I am

And today, plundering resources is considered to be a war crime.

I'm not sure that contemporary morality or rule of law is a particularly strong argument to use against an aspect of a game that is both well within the rules and explicitly encouraged by the game creator.

Morality is always a slippery slope. To wit,whether you spend money or not. you voluntarily playing this game is both an endorsement of the game and supporting the game. Hence, you are as guilty of any sins you choose to attribute to the game as anybody else playing the game.

Now from all the above, you might take it that I'm a rabid plunderer. I'm not. Gave it up years ago. Not because of morality or ineffectiveness, but the purely pragmatic reasons that I don't have the time, got bored with it, bad design in one city overstuffed with Aid targets making me dependent on the hood for help with Aid mixed in with the surprisingly effective notion that if I don;t plunder, it reduces folks desire to plunder me.

There are legitimate reasons to not plunder, but any reason that ultimately is based on 'it's not right' is both self delusional and self harmful. Self delusional in that it is part of a game: feel guilty when someone lands on your Hotel on Boardwalk and bankrupt them? When you take their Queen? Win the all in pot? Harmful in that it puts the player in a victim's mindset so many of the posters have in the Help I'm Being Plundered thread which leads to finding fault with the game and others instead of trying to learn how to avoid it.

Let me end on this for emphasis. Play the gane however you want. I wont question your decisions, but don't delude yourself that skipping some part of the game gives you morale high ground.



* Of many examples, I'll use just one aspect of just one example to illustrate my point.

The one example: The British Empire. "The sun never sets on the British Empire." Built on blood and conquest and exploitation, bitter wars over centuries. One could argue it still exists in much altered form and somewhat reduced eminence. I'll let a member of the Commonwealth opine on that aspect. Humanity as it is today owes a phenomenal debt to the British Empire.

The one aspect: From June 1940 to June 1941 TBE was the only serious combatant standing against the Axis. If TBE had not had the massive resources and wealth accumulated over centuries of empire they would have been swept away resulting in horrors best left to fiction.

Highly recommended: Winston's Churchill's Nobel Prize winning History of the Second World War is an incredible read from one of the only two Leaders to survive the war. Duantingly large, 6 volumes and once started you will not be able to stop reading. Be careful though, you may learn a hell of a lot. Churchill writes compelling history of the decisive conflict that still shapes the world 75 years later.
 

DeletedUser40197

tl;dr: There are a lot of legitimate reasons to not plunder in game, but your sense of morality is not a good reason.



Goods Buildings - structures to supply Goods to a plunderer that do not take up space in the plunderer's city.



Why not have both? SoKs in my city and take what I can from your city?



And pillaged cities fared worse. After years, decades, or centuries empires change and collapse. Don't be so quick to dismiss the positive lasting effects of aggressive empire on history.*





I'm not sure that contemporary morality or rule of law is a particularly strong argument to use against an aspect of a game that is both well within the rules and explicitly encouraged by the game creator.

Morality is always a slippery slope. To wit,whether you spend money or not. you voluntarily playing this game is both an endorsement of the game and supporting the game. Hence, you are as guilty of any sins you choose to attribute to the game as anybody else playing the game.

Now from all the above, you might take it that I'm a rabid plunderer. I'm not. Gave it up years ago. Not because of morality or ineffectiveness, but the purely pragmatic reasons that I don't have the time, got bored with it, bad design in one city overstuffed with Aid targets making me dependent on the hood for help with Aid mixed in with the surprisingly effective notion that if I don;t plunder, it reduces folks desire to plunder me.

There are legitimate reasons to not plunder, but any reason that ultimately is based on 'it's not right' is both self delusional and self harmful. Self delusional in that it is part of a game: feel guilty when someone lands on your Hotel on Boardwalk and bankrupt them? When you take their Queen? Win the all in pot? Harmful in that it puts the player in a victim's mindset so many of the posters have in the Help I'm Being Plundered thread which leads to finding fault with the game and others instead of trying to learn how to avoid it.

Let me end on this for emphasis. Play the gane however you want. I wont question your decisions, but don't delude yourself that skipping some part of the game gives you morale high ground.



* Of many examples, I'll use just one aspect of just one example to illustrate my point.

The one example: The British Empire. "The sun never sets on the British Empire." Built on blood and conquest and exploitation, bitter wars over centuries. One could argue it still exists in much altered form and somewhat reduced eminence. I'll let a member of the Commonwealth opine on that aspect. Humanity as it is today owes a phenomenal debt to the British Empire.

The one aspect: From June 1940 to June 1941 TBE was the only serious combatant standing against the Axis. If TBE had not had the massive resources and wealth accumulated over centuries of empire they would have been swept away resulting in horrors best left to fiction.

Highly recommended: Winston's Churchill's Nobel Prize winning History of the Second World War is an incredible read from one of the only two Leaders to survive the war. Duantingly large, 6 volumes and once started you will not be able to stop reading. Be careful though, you may learn a hell of a lot. Churchill writes compelling history of the decisive conflict that still shapes the world 75 years later.
I didn't read this post, but are these quotes from @Alfred Rex all in reply to people who are discussing why they do in fact plunder...
 

DeletedUser40197

Okay, but what's to discuss? At least in the "Plunder Progress" thread there's crymail to post, or stories about how two neighbors happily plunder each other for two weeks and then become friends. What is topic-worthy about not plundering anybody, every day? That's an honest question, I'm not trying to troll anybody. So, people come to this thread to specifically talk about how they didn't plunder today?
Why discuss anything on a forum? Many, many players discuss all kinds of topics on here. Often including their game strategy. Just because you don't see a point in discussing doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. I think a better question is, why not discuss the reason a player chooses not to plunder? Through reading plunder progress, long before I joined the forum, I was able to understand why players do in fact plunder. That was a great insight to me. I picked up lots of valuable information there.
Often, though, the people who plunder and like to boast about it do not have the most understanding view point of people who choose not to plunder. Most people want to feel a sense of inclusion. So, no, it makes little sense to post in plunder progress as to why you choose not to plunder. It does however make sense to start a thread to discuss it. Maybe a player doesn't have a strong enough army to fight and plunder every day, so they m/p instead. Maybe they feel m/p to hoodies offers them more friends requests. Maybe they don't have the time. Maybe they just want the coin. Maybe they just don't like the idea of taking goods or production from another player... possibly someone has a story to share that would be nice to listen to. It's hard to sift through for that kind of information when every other post is @Alfred Rex defending the OP and every subsequent comment that doesn't agree with the premise.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
It's hard to sift through for that kind of information when every other post is @Alfred Rex defending the OP and every subsequent comment that doesn't agree with the premise.

OP specifically asks "what's your story". If you plunder, that's your story.

Also

"And unlike the ‘Plunder progress’ thread, everyone is welcome to contribute here.".

So why do you oppose to that?
 

DeletedUser40197

OP specifically asks "what's your story". If you plunder, that's your story.

Also

"And unlike the ‘Plunder progress’ thread, everyone is welcome to contribute here.".

So why do you oppose to that?
It's obvious what is meant by "what's your story" the first line in the OP highlights his intent, which I'm sure you already realize.
 

DeletedUser40197

Not to mention the plunder progress thread mostly consists of plunder talk, exclusively. Not a barrage of non plunderers explaining why they don't choose to plunder... possibly the same courtesy could be extended here...
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
I am not sure what historical empires you are referring to, but most, if not all, empires that advanced themselves by pillaging others eventually crumpled under the weight of their conquering. And today, plundering resources is considered to be a war crime.
act of war would probably be a more accurate statement then war crime



Why don’t I plunder (currently)?

My cities not the fledgling it once was. When I first started playing getting those extra goods made a pretty big impact. Now it’s just not worth the bother unless I particularly feel like it.

It was also a fun challenge to keep trying to beat defences from those that had even a small amount added to their cities. Now there’s no challenge in it so it’d just be taking from younger players who cant compete on the same level. There’s no victory in that. It’d be mine to take sure, but not a worthwhile victory until I age up with players that are a bit more advanced

Also the sweetest thing happened a while back when I took a break from plundering while I rebuilt my troop stock. I’d been plundering this guy every day for a while
0920B8FB-2518-4A58-AAFB-D5B2CA06356D.jpeg

❤️ Getting that message was just like... now I’ll feel really bad if I take anything from them. They care more about my wellbeing then if their only terrace farm is plundered.


Will I ever plunder again? I fully expect to and have no regret doing so :p it’s a game and those are the rules of the game

Most players that say they don’t plunder and want the plunderer to stop give morals as a reason... while flinging verbal mud at the person they’re telling it to. I don’t mind if they want that to be a reason. What I do mind is when players shove that in the face of those who play the game as intended and try to force them to play one hand behind their back.

Particularly as if they’re going to say they’re morally right in that aspect they have no ground to stand on if they’re also swearing, being verbally abusive or boasting in any way. Because if they seek to wish ill of the plunderer they’ve lost any moral high ground they think they had. And if they want to say that refraining from plundering makes them morally better then they also better refrain from beguiling, lying, killing or doing anything that wouldn’t be ethically right in real life in any other game even if it’s chess, poker or a first person shooter.
 

DeletedUser37581

I don't plunder because I rarely engage in PvP. Even when I do fight, such as for Himeji Castle, I don't plunder because, well, I don't need anything my neighbors might have, so why bother? (The FPs are nice, but the small amount I would get by plundering doesn't make it worth my time.)
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
I didn't read this post, but are these quotes from @Alfred Rex all in reply to people who are discussing why they do in fact plunder...

Maybe it's lack of my morning tea, but I do not even begin to understand what you are asking, why you are asking a question without using a question mark, why you don't scroll further up the thread and figure it out yourself, why you quoted me if you didn;t read the post, or what, if there is one, your point is.

No need to respond, I'm pretty sure I won't care. You seem a lot more concerned with who is posting in this thread then the actual subject of the thread.
 

DeletedUser40197

Maybe it's lack of my morning tea, but I do not even begin to understand what you are asking, why you are asking a question without using a question mark, why you don't scroll further up the thread and figure it out yourself, why you quoted me if you didn;t read the post, or what, if there is one, your point is.

No need to respond, I'm pretty sure I won't care. You seem a lot more concerned with who is posting in this thread then the actual subject of the thread.
Morning tea or no, clearly rhetorical. I was not looking for an answer.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
Why discuss anything on a forum?

I didn't ask, "why discuss it", I asked what the conversation would consist of.

Maybe a player doesn't have a strong enough army to fight and plunder every day, so they m/p instead. Maybe they feel m/p to hoodies offers them more friends requests. Maybe they don't have the time. Maybe they just want the coin. Maybe they just don't like the idea of taking goods or production from another player... possibly someone has a story to share that would be nice to listen to. It's hard to sift through for that kind of information when every other post is @Alfred Rex defending the OP and every subsequent comment that doesn't agree with the premise.

Carry on.
 

Agent327

Well-Known Member
It's obvious what is meant by "what's your story" the first line in the OP highlights his intent, which I'm sure you already realize.

Not to mention the plunder progress thread mostly consists of plunder talk, exclusively. Not a barrage of non plunderers explaining why they don't choose to plunder... possibly the same courtesy could be extended here...

"And unlike the ‘Plunder progress’ thread, everyone is welcome to contribute here.".

OP has decided different.
 

mamboking053

Well-Known Member
I am not sure what historical empires you are referring to, but most, if not all, empires that advanced themselves by pillaging others eventually crumpled under the weight of their conquering. And today, plundering resources is considered to be a war crime.

It may be a crime, but everyone's still doing it.
 

DeletedUser31540

I wish the plunder badge went up to 50,000 like battles won does .... i got to 5,000 plunders after a few months of playing and i imagine i am at 30,000+ plunders at this time (25 months in)

My approach to this game has always been ‘find something to do’

I am only interested in having 1 city and There can be a lot of downtime and when u want to play and there isnt much to do attacking neighbors and plundering if possible is a great way to Fill that time !

Honestly i completely avoid the plunder progress thread ... last time i checked it out i got the sense it was a bunch of amateurs sharing silly stories :/ that may be my inner egomaniac coming through but its honestly how i feel

When i was less powerful and my army wasnt to the point where i could fight 70+ battles a day i used to extort my hood and demand fps in exchange for peace ... this was brilliant cause i always netted way more fps than expected and i didnt have the capability to attack everyone anyways

Once my traz and cdm finished power leveling i stopped extorting for two reasons 1- my army could attack everyone and continue to grow 2- it just took so much time and effort that and as my daily fps continued to soar the % of extorted fps to total fps became low enough that i didnt think it was worth the time any longer

Now i am at a crossroads with plundering, with foe in general, and in life ... but mostly i ignore these thoughts and keep plodding onwards in the way i alway have ... change comes slowly i guess :/

With 35M+ points i usually have more than the rest of my hood combined .... sometimes much more. Plundering the entire hood with autobattles i lose about 15 units and it takes about 20 minutes. I get a measly amount of points, a fair amount of goods, and 10 or less fps — is it worth it ?

Ive had a lot of internal debate throughout my 2+ years of playing about plundering ... it will be hard to rehash all of it here but the gist is ... its a game, i rarely feel bad and if i do i will relent (a little bit), and ive come to view my gameplay as a service to others

People in my hood are usually players with 2-6 months of gameplay under their belt .... they see me with my high level GBs plundering then 14 days straight and they cant retaliate ... if they are truly committed to their city / the game they will collect on time and grow regardless ... if they were on the fence about continuing with the game my presence leads some of them to think ‘this isnt for me’

So basically i make the ones who want to continue better and more committed and give the boot to the ones who were never that serious a way out before they commit too much time !

So again is all this plundering worth it ... im not sure ... i guess i would say that ultimately it isnt but then again this entire game and ‘gaming’ in general isnt worth it so as long as i am here playing this silly game i will carry on the way i always have

Just like the OP, morality also governs my gameplay but it manifests itself far differently. ANd i get more stuff !!!
 

Alfred Rex

Member
Perhaps it would be more accurate to retitle this thread "Why I feel morally superior for not plundering"?

I can’t speak about what you may have projected onto the title of this thread, but I certainly made no statement about feeling morally superior to anyone.
 

Alfred Rex

Member
Oh but you do when you continue to couch it in moral terms by referring to plunder as "harming others".
Saying plundering harms people is not a moral judgment, it is a statement of fact. If you wish to frame it in a moral context, that is your prerogative. But I made no claim of moral superiority for choosing not to plunder.
 
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