Arc 75-80: Swap or 1.9?

[Plain Red Justice]

Many people would say that takes advantage of your swap partners.

So what? That is the very essence of swap threads anyway. Some should lose so that some would win. I'd call it guild FP rearrangement that favors very active guildmates

 

[Joeyjojojo]

Many people would say that takes advantage of your swap partners, if the best they can hope for after placing a large number of FP is a small reward.

Only people that didn't understand what I said: you prime until 1-3 can lock their spots at 1.9x. Once that's done you use swaps to get the last 2 spots filled. I've seen plenty of people who use swaps and have 12 contributors. I'm happy to take a 100 or 50 FP swap that locks me into 4th or 5th on a GB. You get all your swap FPs back on yours, and you get a small reward. Much better than just dumping on your own.

 

[Plain Red Justice]

You get all your swap FPs back on yours, and you get a small reward. Much better than just dumping on your own.

Not necessarily true unless you're placing your swapped FPs in a high level GB (ex: Arc 80) which is mostly a frowned upon action in most guilds that'll get you kicked. Do you not know how to compute your Swap efficiency vs 1.9 efficiency?

 

[DevaCat]

Only people that didn't understand what I said: you prime until 1-3 can lock their spots at 1.9x. Once that's done you use swaps to get the last 2 spots filled. I've seen plenty of people who use swaps and have 12 contributors. I'm happy to take a 100 or 50 FP swap that locks me into 4th or 5th on a GB. You get all your swap FPs back on yours, and you get a small reward. Much better than just dumping on your own.

Gotta disagree. If your intent is to get to Arc L80 (point of the op) and do it quickly, then prime 4th as well. It's not that costly. I gave 5th spots to guildies needing prints for a FP or whatever they wanted to put on -- all the way to L80.

If you are willing to put down 100 fps on any Arc level 5th spot in a swap, you are nuts -- but bless you.

 

[P C C]

If you're just swapping FP for fourth with another single player, either there's no effective difference between 1) swapping extra points and 2) both priming to 1.9x and then taking 4th on each other's GB (so why bother?), or one of you is getting a better return than the other. If, for example, both players are 90 FP away from locking a spot on their own GB that has a 10FP reward, then spending 90 on their own GB to prime and 10 for the 1.9x on the other GB or swapping 100FP both result in the same net spending (90FP) and rewards.

And if someone is using swap threads for the lower spots after using 1.9x to fill the top 3, what's in it for the other members who are swapping with no chance for a top 3 with someone does on their GB? If you have 12 contributors, sounds likely that's happening. Unless everyone in the swap is already doing the same, being all at 1.9x, in which case I also ask why bother?

 

[Joeyjojojo]

Do you not know how to compute your Swap efficiency vs 1.9 efficiency?

Yes. And I have also tracked. I do much better using swaps for 4&5 than I would have done priming. So far as people who take those positions: some good some bad. Every world I'm in has at least some guild members who use the swap threads but not the 1.9 (and some who self prime until they get sniped). That's their prerogative, but it does mean that they can do better taking swaps that guarantee positions (even low ones) on my GBs compared with many of the other offerings in swap threads. Because not everyone uses the 1.9 threads, I also make sure that members who don't use them still have opportunities for high (BP) value spots. I often do leave 5th for cheap for players who can't afford the big swaps or 1.9x.

Note: you really can't effectively compute swap efficiency because it's highly dependent on the swaps you take. That's why I've actually tracked it. 1.9 works much better down to 3rd. 4th varies a lot (more profitable GBs like Arc and Inno are cheap to prime for 4th, most others aren't).

If you are willing to put down 100 fps on any Arc level 5th spot in a swap, you are nuts -- but bless you.

Again: it's a swap. I put 100 down, but I get those back on some other GB plus a small reward. It isn't a donation, and since I'm going to spend those 100 FPs to help level one of my GBs, I'm out nothing but I get a bit more back (yes, if you prime you get free FPs, but my point is that for the small # of rewards for 4th and 5th the free FPs end up being less than I get back from the swap).

If you're just swapping FP for fourth with another single player,

I'm talking about using swap threads, not direct swaps. I do use those but only for first and with cheaper high level GBs, and we track FPs over 1.9x so that we can be "fair" while working on different GBs at different levels.

And if someone is using swap threads for the lower spots after using 1.9x to fill the top 3, what's in it for the other members who are swapping with no chance for a top 3 with someone does on their GB? If you have 12 contributors, sounds likely that's happening. Unless everyone in the swap is already doing the same, being all at 1.9x, in which case I also ask why bother?

I'm not sure how to respond to this any better than I have above. You seem to be under the impression that every single player in this game is optimizing and that's very obviously not the case. Lots of players self donate way more than they need for 1.9x. Plenty more just dump on swap threads when they have FPs and don't really pay any attention to what they're getting back. I try to make sure that anyone picking up a swap for my GBs is either guaranteed a spot or at least has a chance for one (in the world where I don't have Arc80). In most worlds I don't really care. I collect and dump--sometimes on my GBs to prime for a 1.9 spot sometimes on threads to fill up others--and don't really care what I'm getting back because they're diamond mines and I've got plenty of FPs.

 

[P C C]

I don't think every player is optimizing. But swap threads benefit players with higher FP production. You say you make out better using swaps for 4th and 5th than straight 1.9x and those gains are coming from somewhere: other players in your guild swaps getting fewer rewards. If they're casual players and don't care or have Arc 80, then fine. But otherwise, it's the stronger players in the guild, who have least need, gaining and the others losing.

 

[Joeyjojojo]

I don't generally disagree, but if you're looking at 100 & 200 FP swap threads, only stronger players are even using those. With high level GBs I almost never bother with anything under 100. I do know players that put lv80+ GBs on small swaps (5, 10, 20...) and that I find rather inconsiderate, but if you're talking about stronger vs. weaker players, it's those small threads where that is an issue, not the big ones.

...and sometimes I'm just lazy: priming for 1.9 requires calculations (whether on your own, or from some online calculator) and a swap thread doesn't. Again, I don't maximize this way but I spend less time fussing over it.

 

[DevaCat]

I don't generally disagree, but if you're looking at 100 & 200 FP swap threads, only stronger players are even using those. With high level GBs I almost never bother with anything under 100. I do know players that put lv80+ GBs on small swaps (5, 10, 20...) and that I find rather inconsiderate, but if you're talking about stronger vs. weaker players, it's those small threads where that is an issue, not the big ones.

...and sometimes I'm just lazy: priming for 1.9 requires calculations (whether on your own, or from some online calculator) and a swap thread doesn't. Again, I don't maximize this way but I spend less time fussing over it.

I get what you are saying. But frankly, players putting L80+ GBs in small swaps is not just inconsiderate, it's venal. Just my opinion of course. I also have found 100+ FP swaps to be a source of predatory behavior by "stronger players". Again, my experience. I have seen too many instances of a gb being flogged through the low level swaps, sucking up fps from the inexperienced clueless, and then that gb is transferred to a 100+ FP swap for waiting friends to quickly take the reward spots while the clueless wonder why they can never catch a break. This is why I recommend trying to take a guaranteed position on a primed 1.x thread, instead of gambling with a swap position dominated by swap Hawks and opportunists -- your basic guild mates. Cynical? Maybe.

 

[Plain Red Justice]

I also have found 100+ FP swaps to be a source of predatory behavior by "stronger players".

For the clueless players, this statement is a huge misconception. What this guy is saying is basically no 5-6 digit players is capable of spewing out 3-4 digit FPs out of nowhere when in reality it's very easy to do with enough time of banking FPs.

Banking FPs may be important but knowing what to do with your FPs is way more important as well. Don't waste your time with completely inefficient 1.x threads on your low level Arc. Learn how to play swap threads so you get your Arc leveled ASAP at little to no cost to get yourself snowballing ASAP

t. swap maestro

 

[Emberguard]

For the clueless players, this statement is a huge misconception.

Not really. If they're "clueless" they're not going to be systematically choosing what swaps to take even if they spent the banked FPs. And most players on the swap threads without a Arc use their daily income, not the banked FPs.

Every GB added to a thread has to have someone take the cost up. Swap threads ONLY work as long as someone is willing to do the swap. If everyone in the swap thread decides to pick and choose the swaps cease to be viable so they grind to a halt. I've seen it happen where everyone stopped using the swaps because they caught wind of someone doing just that: picking and choosing swaps so no one else gets a reward or very slim pickings for high cost. If you're doing a 1.x thread you should stick with it for the entire GB or make it fair to those on the swaps by limiting how many swaps you do for the remainder

 

[Plain Red Justice]

Swap threads ONLY work as long as someone is willing to do the swap. If everyone in the swap thread decides to pick and choose the swaps cease to be viable so they grind to a halt.

Nope, that only happens if a player is active to pick up the swap post. This is the beauty of swap threads, you can try to target a GB but other guildmates have the same thing in mind and can see the exact same GB with you as well making it fair. The swap threads are fair to all but only if you can pay the price of being active. It also doesn't grind to a halt just because a single (1) GB has its juiciest spot taken because different GBs on varied GB levels have multiple Swap efficiencies vs. 1.9 efficiencies, so it completely depends on where the swap taker is placing his FPs and the average percentage of all the swaps he participated in until the GB he's dropping the FPs in levels. You can say that a swap taker is winning if Swap efficiency > 1.9 efficiency and that isn't exactly decided on a single GB

 

[DevaCat]

For the clueless players, this statement is a huge misconception. What this guy is saying is basically no 5-6 digit players is capable of spewing out 3-4 digit FPs out of nowhere when in reality it's very easy to do with enough time of banking FPs.

Banking FPs may be important but knowing what to do with your FPs is way more important as well. Don't waste your time with completely inefficient 1.x threads on your low level Arc. Learn how to play swap threads so you get your Arc leveled ASAP at little to no cost to get yourself snowballing ASAP

t. swap maestro

Once again, you take a sentence out of context and then play with your straw man. I said nothing about being able to afford to use a 100 FP swap, nothing about creating or using a bank.

I stated that I found the 100 FP swaps to be a source of predatory behavior. I gave an example of why this can be so, and recommended taking a locked/primed position on a 1.9 for a guaranteed reward. I have no misconception, and I believe most readers understood what I wrote.

Just my opinion of course:

Your "active player" = swap hawk
t. swap maestro = predatory player

 

[Plain Red Justice]

Once again, you take a sentence out of context and then play with your straw man. I said nothing about being able to afford to use a 100 FP swap, nothing about creating or using a bank.

Naaah you're certainly going into that context like the lot of you really like to claim "small players cannot compete with the big players because their FP bank is small". Don't pretend you're not and continuously trick newbies into playing a very slow and inefficient route to play FoE

And remember lads. This player actually calls swap winners to be predators, you can smell the intense projection even from where I'm sitting right now

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

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