Family that plays

[DeletedUser]

So up until recent both me and my husband and my 2 Sons play FoE it wasn't until this weekend we ran into a problem. My boys where at their Grandparents house for a few days while me and my husband went out of town. We promised to log into their accounts and make sure their eggs and points where done. now after logging them on the laptop (me and my husband used out Ipads) it now tells use we can't support people on the same internet connection like just up until now we where fine until this weekend. I know this is suppose to prevent multiple account but with if a house hold legits play? its not a huge issue but we liked helping eachother out. and i can't see this being a big issue since my boys love playing FoE.

 

[DeletedUser8152]

Well, first, you need to be aware that you absolutely did break the game rules this past weekend:

Each account may have only one user and may not be logged into or played by any other player.

If you think about it you'll understand why this is fair. Your sons had to take a few days off, but that happens to everyone. Everyone else has to accept the lost FPs etc, it isn't really fair for your sons to avoid that.

So that's an issue, but it isn't otherwise against the rules to have multiple players in the same house. You should contact support about working out some kind of arrangement. There isn't anything to be done about it through the forum here.

It is allowed for two or more players to use the same computer and/or internet connection, provided each player only controls the actions of his/her assigned account (please contact support to make them aware).

 

[DeletedUser3556]

The only thing you can't do since you share an internet connection is donate forge points into each others great buildings, and that's to prevent GB pushing. You can still support each other through trades and motivating and polishing daily. You can contact support but I don't see them changing that rule for your family as then they will be flooded with requests from everyone else saying they should be able to do that too. You should familiarize yourself with the game rules from Tab on the top of the page. I'll post the one you unknowingly violated below.

1. One account per player

Each player may have one account per world. Each account may have only one user and may not be logged into or played by any other player.
Sharing your password with another player is forbidden.
It is forbidden to create multiple accounts on a single world for any reason.

Examples:

• It is allowed for two or more players to use the same computer and/or internet connection, provided each player only controls the actions of his/her assigned account (please contact support to make them aware).
• Knowing, storing, or asking passwords for other accounts on worlds you play is 100% forbidden. If another player sends you their password, you must always report them; otherwise you risk your own account being banned.
• You may not access ANY other account on ANY world you play, even if it belongs to a family member.
  It is forbidden to play for another player if they are temporarily gone, or for any other reason.
• It is strictly forbidden to force entry to an account.
• It is forbidden for more than one player to be logged into an account at the same time.
• When banned, a player should contact support. Creating another account in order to avoid the ban is a violation.

​

 

[DeletedUser]

Yeh i will have to contact support prob should state that my sons (aged 7-9) their account where created by us parents (since they showed interest in playing) with their e-mails, so yes we have access to their accounts because they are being watched by us. So yes we both are truthful that we do log into their accounts to make sure they aren't doing anything unacceptable. thanks for the info.

Also i didn't read into details of the rules because most games my kids play they over look the "do not share your account with others" because we are the parents of the children and we have rights to access their account to make sure they are doing things right. But for now now we will leave their account to them but while we on holidays we do use the same laptop for the 4 of us.

 

[DeletedUser23706]

The only thing you can't do since you share an internet connection is donate forge points into each others great buildings, and that's to prevent GB pushing. You can still support each other through trades and motivating and polishing daily. You can contact support but I don't see them changing that rule for your family as then they will be flooded with requests from everyone else saying they should be able to do that too. You should familiarize yourself with the game rules from Tab on the top of the page. I'll post the one you unknowingly violated below.

1. One account per player

Each player may have one account per world. Each account may have only one user and may not be logged into or played by any other player.
Sharing your password with another player is forbidden.
It is forbidden to create multiple accounts on a single world for any reason.

Examples:

• It is allowed for two or more players to use the same computer and/or internet connection, provided each player only controls the actions of his/her assigned account (please contact support to make them aware).
• Knowing, storing, or asking passwords for other accounts on worlds you play is 100% forbidden. If another player sends you their password, you must always report them; otherwise you risk your own account being banned.
• You may not access ANY other account on ANY world you play, even if it belongs to a family member.
  It is forbidden to play for another player if they are temporarily gone, or for any other reason.
• It is strictly forbidden to force entry to an account.
• It is forbidden for more than one player to be logged into an account at the same time.
• When banned, a player should contact support. Creating another account in order to avoid the ban is a violation.

​

I have always found this multi account rule based on shared IP addresses and/or device ID's to be an enormous waste of time on behalf of the FoE mods. The rule is so incredibly easy to get around by anyone with basic networking skills and the ability to root devices and obfuscate device ids. I know the mods over the years like to brag about how "good" they are at detecting multi accounting, but all they are doing is catching family and dorm uses sharing WiFi, not legit cheaters. Just like push accounts are EVERYWHERE and it is VERY RARE to see them actually banned, same with multi accounting, there are small guilds on almost every server that are made up of one player playing all the accounts and there is nothing Inno can do to detect them!

I am an Information Assurance professional, and have been for 30 years. Security based on filtering IP addresses (WKA) are the EASIET measure to hack and no IA professional with a real job would ever devise a security system based on IP addressing. It is USELESS. I can hack an Oracle Coherence cluster based on WKA security in MINUTES. I know all the tricks Inno uses to detect this. There is only so much they can do, and serious hackers/cheaters know every one like the back of their hand. The only people they are blocking are legit families and dorm mates sharing an IP address. The dedicated cheaters are cheating at WILL and without any concern Inno will ever catch them.

 

[DeletedUser11609]

First of all, you just admitted to breaking the rules by logging onto their accounts.
Second, the rule is there for good reason, and it's not going to change regardless of your situation.
Third, can't tell you how many times I've heard people claim they aren't cheating, when they are....
While the rule is weak, and does nothing to stop serious cheaters that are rampant in this game, it's about all they can do with the resources they are willing to spend.
I'd bet 70% of the accounts here are alts.

 

[DeletedUser23706]

What I'm trying to say is spend the limited cheating resources you guys have to utilize information you have control over. I can give my wife my password and get her to play for me while on a business trip, for instance. You can't do ANYTHING about that. All these nonsensical rules about things you actually have very little to ANY control over or consistent ability to even detect. Your devs are actually paid salaries, so why waste that Operating Expense overhead chasing phantoms you will never consistently catch. All you do is catch the unsophisticated legit players and in turn, are actually cutting off potential revenue as these people just leave out of frustration. How many diamond sales are you guys giving up by trying to enforce unenforceable rules. Dedicated cheaters will beat most all of these rules with relative ease.

Ask yourself what is the behavior you are trying to prevent? It appears to be some form of "pushing". Dummy accounts designed for the sole purpose of feeding a central-main account. You actually have total control over the data that paints a very definable usage patterns that screams PUSH! Get yourselves BRMS rules engine like Drools or JESS, create some pattern detection rules, run data scans on historical contribution data, and highlight the usages that are tripping the rule. You can now do whatever you need to do to stop the behavior.

You don't even need to worry about who is running what account or where they are running it from. If you have robust pattern recognition engines you can nail cheaters with near 100% effectiveness. I doubt the stuff you guys are doing today are even 50% or 30% effective. All you FOE and Inno is doing is frustrating a body of users (families, dormatory and military barracks members, etc.) into quitting and thereby shutting off potentially good revenue streams. Makes absolutely NO business sense whatsoever!

 

[DeletedUser8152]

For obvious reasons, we're not going to publicly discuss how we do cheater hunting.

But I don't really understand your point. You think that we should do away with the rule about letting people play multiple accounts, and focus only on pushing?

 

[DeletedUser6172]

If you have robust pattern recognition engines you can nail cheaters with near 100% effectiveness. I doubt the stuff you guys are doing today are even 50% or 30% effective.

Why ever would you think that InnoGames doesn't use competent pattern recognition tools? How else would they verify user complaints regarding pushing, analyse anomalous progress, and enforce the game rule that forbids pushing?

Operating a push account or knowingly benefiting from it is forbidden. A push account is an account that is mainly used to help another account while neglecting other parts of the game. This means that it is not allowed to use an account solely for the purpose of helping another account grow, or to knowingly receive benefits or any kind of support from such account.

You'll note that the rule is far broader than the mere sharing of account information.

In Elvenar, which is less vulnerable to pushing, the Game Rules don't even mention multi-accounts any more, and the EN world game moderators are quite comfortable with players who have two accounts so that they can play both Human and Elven characters.

 

[DeletedUser11609]

Why ever would you think that InnoGames doesn't use competent pattern recognition tools? How else would they verify user complaints regarding pushing, analyse anomalous progress, and enforce the game rule that forbids pushing?

You'll note that the rule is far broader than the mere sharing of account information.

In Elvenar, which is less vulnerable to pushing, the Game Rules don't even mention multi-accounts any more, and the EN world game moderators are quite comfortable with players who have two accounts so that they can play both Human and Elven characters.

Not sure what their other game has to do with this one.
And most people don't think they put much effort into enforcing game rules, unless it suits them.
I've seen lots of obvious push accounts, I've had other people point out ones that were obvious. Many of these accounts were reported by various people, most of them, including the people they pushed, are still here......
My personal opinion is, if they actually did remove all the push accounts, you'd have couple hundred actual accounts per server. Which is why they ignore them.

 

[DeletedUser17558]

My personal opinion is, if they actually did remove all the push accounts, you'd have couple hundred actual accounts per server. Which is why they ignore them.

I'd buy that for a dollar.

 

[DeletedUser23706]

Based off posts the past three years on this topic the behavior FoE is trying to mitigate via multi-accounting rules is pushing. Specifically pushing Great Build Forge point contributions. But notably, not goods trading from the same "internet connection". FP's is bad, goods are ok. OK whatever.

So it is working? Are there better ways to accomplish this that use data and mechanisms you actually control? No and yes, from what I can tell. You don't need to discuss the methods you are using because they are essentially public domain already. Inno is not doing anything countless other Internet Gaming and Marketing sites are doing. It's not a particularly large problem domain, and it is VERY well known, aka, public domain. IP and device ID based auth systems simply do not work. It is why those in my profession never use those techniques.

My point is, stop spending money using marginal and weak methods to mitigate behaviors you feel are "cheating", and instead spend them on techniques that much more effective. According to one of the answers here, Inno has already developed sophisticated usage pattern detection systems. So USE THEM, not this silliness that does nothing but drive legitimately honest players from the game and locks out an entire class of user.....thus costing Inno money! Wasted O/E dollars supporting weak authorization and lost revenue from an entire class of potential player.

Again, it simply makes no business sense.

- - - Updated - - -

For obvious reasons, we're not going to publicly discuss how we do cheater hunting.

But I don't really understand your point. You think that we should do away with the rule about letting people play multiple accounts, and focus only on pushing?

Basically, yes. Because the former is unenforceable and ineffective and does nothing more than to drive away a whole class of player. The latter is something that you can probably develop very effective means to mitigate.

 

[centaurgod]

The problem you describes occurs a lot more than you might think. Take for a example a college/university campus/dorm with a shared internet connection. The school has one public IP address and hundreds if not thousands of internal IP numbers for students and staff. INNO (as well as other game companies) sees them all using the same public IP. Say you live in a townhouse/condo type complex and the landlord provides internet as part of the rental package. Again, each tenant has a different internal IP, but all have the same public IP. Same goes for access from public libraries and such. It's hard to fault them for trying to curtail certain types of cheating, but using IP is in my opinion not very well though out. I've developed various methods to safeguard software that I have written, but web-based games are much harder to deal with.


Dorms, frats, schools and such are a more prone to social groups and friends with common interests. i.e. a dorm with a few hundred students could easily have a few dozen friends wanting to play the game together. Even the small cases of two siblings in the same household might want to play together

 

[Super Catanian]

NECRO ALERT!!!

 

[DeletedUser8428]

The problem you describes occurs a lot more than you might think. Take for a example a college/university campus/dorm with a shared internet connection. The school has one public IP address and hundreds if not thousands of internal IP numbers for students and staff. INNO (as well as other game companies) sees them all using the same public IP. Say you live in a townhouse/condo type complex and the landlord provides internet as part of the rental package. Again, each tenant has a different internal IP, but all have the same public IP. Same goes for access from public libraries and such. It's hard to fault them for trying to curtail certain types of cheating, but using IP is in my opinion not very well though out. I've developed various methods to safeguard software that I have written, but web-based games are much harder to deal with.


Dorms, frats, schools and such are a more prone to social groups and friends with common interests. i.e. a dorm with a few hundred students could easily have a few dozen friends wanting to play the game together. Even the small cases of two siblings in the same household might want to play together

Since there's already a CURRENT discussion for this topic (https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/assisting-another-account-from-my-ip.24192/) and you posted there, why resurrect a long dead discussion to post the same thing again? Creating the same post in multiple threads doesn't make your point more compelling.

 

[DeletedUser]

Duplicate subject. Closing thread.