Feedback for Guild Expedition.. Level 5

[Pericles the Lion]

Just reading about MTG, they seem like a "Vulture Capitalist" company that doesn't create anything of their own, just buys companies and strips them down for profit.

I don't know what you have been reading but this is not my take on MTG. They initially purchased a minority share of InnoGames in 2016 and have increased their ownership since that time. They did sell ESL Gaming last year (e-sports) to focus on what they call "pure gaming". I've read their annual reports for 2016-2022 as well as their press releases. Unless I missed a disclosure, I found nothing that suggests they are a "Vulture Capitalist" - especially when it comes to Inno.

 

[Sledgie]

I don't know what you have been reading but this is not my take on MTG. They initially purchased a minority share of InnoGames in 2016 and have increased their ownership since that time. They did sell ESL Gaming last year (e-sports) to focus on what they call "pure gaming". I've read their annual reports for 2016-2022 as well as their press releases. Unless I missed a disclosure, I found nothing that suggests they are a "Vulture Capitalist" - especially when it comes to Inno.

The fact that they don't create their own value, just buy and sell other companies is a hallmark of a "vulture capitalist" company. Combine that with the changes they have made to FoE and significant layoffs, those are also behaviors typical of "vulture capitalist" companies.

 

[mellofax]

@mellofax any feedback from the devs? Do you guys plan to change number of fragments for FOY?

We have passed the feedback thus far on to the devs but it will be some time before we get any further news on this - please keep an eye on the changelog as this is likely where we would communicate this (though at this time there are no plans to change anything)

 

[Darkest.Knight]

Looking at the upcoming event buildings that have defending army buffs it appears that they will "push" players to move in that direction. I'll up my defending army stats when it doesn't significantly reduce my attacking army stats. I'm at a point now where I'll swap out items similar to botanical rotundas or winner plazas for the new event buildings; it'll take a while to up my stats.

So far I've done GE4 three times and have received 90 diamonds X 3, some diamonds but certainly fewer now.

 

[Portia the Benevolent]

I went into my inventory just now to see what I could sell on AD considering that I’m in L4 of GE. Usually a lot. I have nothing. I guess I just got troops and fragments.

 

[Portia the Benevolent]

Week 1, 43 of 63 guildmates attempted GE L5, 26 completed. This week, 39 of 64 with 22 completing.

Yeah just doing a quick eyeballing earlier and thus far none in our guild (a top one) has ventured above 64. I’m sure some will but it’s not a winning strategy on the individual level. Time will tell. I made a few attempts but never got passed 66 so have thrown in the towel.

 

[DoubleJ]

I mean, the extra points I get each day from defeating attackers in the PvP arena suggest that there's been another benefit to defensive bonuses for a couple years now. GE5's not the first, it's just a larger one.

You get more points for defeating the AI opponent on top than you do by defeating players. If you want to rank highly in PVP Arena, it's 100% about attack boosts so you can defeat Ebony over and over. Building your defense is pointless because no one should be attacking you anyway, and you're actually being counterproductive by encouraging them to attack the higher point AI players. So it's not just that city defense is useless, it actually incentivizes other people playing better at your expense.

Doesn't mean they won't add more features that require defense.

In fact seeing how much trouble they went to over GE5 and giving us all those new two way buildings, I would count on it.

Assuming months down the line we get some feature that requires city defense, which at this point is purely speculation, it doesn't change the fact that this change was poorly implemented in every possible way. It was a change done at the expense of new or low power players, a change that bolted two incompatible systems together, and a change that is not workable in the current state of the game. No SAJM player will tear down 2000% attack bonuses to get a corresponding defense bonus. No one with that kind of development will trade fps, diamonds, prestige, kills, and GBG performance for one level of GE.

 

[DoubleJ]

Yeah just doing a quick eyeballing earlier and thus far none in our guild (a top one) has ventured above 64. I’m sure some will but it’s not a winning strategy on the individual level. Time will tell. I made a few attempts but never got passed 66 so have thrown in the towel.

My guild has 215 gold trophies in GE, 17 silver trophies, and 0 bronze trophies. We had a 133.3% requirement during race weeks. Last week we finished at 102% because no one wanted to burn tens of thousands of goods for no benefit.

 

[Diogenes of Sinope]

Where's it going? You ain't seen nothing yet. So... Easy answer: Ton's more revenue generation is going to be required - going forward. Ways you can't even contemplate, or might not even stomach in this game.

The party's over for free stuff. You'll go slower in overall progress, it will cost more, and we'll look upon how slow it was historically as a golden age when the game balances prevailed - and we couldn't see it at the time. This just came across my desk on MTG, Inno's parent company:

Executive summary:
Date of article: April 13th, 2023 - 06:00pm
Synopsis: InnoGames to undertake a “strategic realignment” and job cuts
Feeds and Speeds: This realignment will however, result in 75 roles across the company being made redundant

75 people of 400 reportedly in Innogames = ~19% of the company.

https://www.pocketgamer.biz/news/81308/innogames-announces-strategic-realignmentand-job-cuts/

I agree with you regarding the overall direction for this game by Inno. They have been re-structuring FoE to require the purchase of diamonds thus increasing revenue for several years now. Frequencies of "special" events. How rewards are structured in these events. The diminishing yield rate for wishing wells and fountains of youth. Level 5 in GE. The list goes on. I also suspect something is going on with their server farm. More and more people are reporting lag times while playing the game. I may need to rethink FoE going forward though I hate giving up 5 plus years of effort.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Assuming months down the line we get some feature that requires city defense, which at this point is purely speculation, it doesn't change the fact that this change was poorly implemented in every possible way. It was a change done at the expense of new or low power players, a change that bolted two incompatible systems together, and a change that is not workable in the current state of the game. No SAJM player will tear down 2000% attack bonuses to get a corresponding defense bonus. No one with that kind of development will trade fps, diamonds, prestige, kills, and GBG performance for one level of GE.

Sheesh. It's all speculation. If you think that PvP and GE L5 are the end of the features that depend on defender bonuses then ignore both of these features, enjoy your attack bonuses, and call it a day. GE L5 is not a change "done at the expense of new or lower power players". In case you haven't noticed, the new and lower level players don't do L4 (let alone worry about L5) and probably haven't drunk the "attack only" Kool-Aid. Fwiw, this SAJM player isn't going to tear down his 2700% attack. Instead, I am going to carefully swap out attack only buildings (e.g. Botanical Rotundas) for more useful buildings (e.g. Carousels) and gradually build his defense bonuses - all the while negotiating L5. The Forgotten Temple is too good to pass up.

 

[Xenosaur]

I agree with you regarding the overall direction for this game by Inno. I may need to rethink FoE going forward though I hate giving up 5 plus years of effort.

Bingo. Therein lies the quandary for oh so many. The ease/simplicity of the daily tasks to just minimally stay in the game and really choose what you want to do each day - if anything at all.

Hard to give up, so many just "hang on". It's real easy to fly the plane @ 35,000 feet - especially on autopilot...

So we do.

 

[DoubleJ]

Sheesh. It's all speculation. If you think that PvP and GE L5 are the end of the features that depend on defender bonuses then ignore both of these features, enjoy your attack bonuses, and call it a day. GE L5 is not a change "done at the expense of new or lower power players". In case you haven't noticed, the new and lower level players don't do L4 (let alone worry about L5) and probably haven't drunk the "attack only" Kool-Aid. Fwiw, this SAJM player isn't going to tear down his 2700% attack. Instead, I am going to carefully swap out attack only buildings (e.g. Botanical Rotundas) for more useful buildings (e.g. Carousels) and gradually build his defense bonuses - all the while negotiating L5. The Forgotten Temple is too good to pass up.

The changes to GE, of which GE5 is the capstone of, have screwed new players. GE was the best source of diamonds and reliably gave FOY to new players for the longest time. This current change has cut diamond generation by around 50%.

As for whether the FT is good enough, if you negotiate all four weeks it's roughly 45-60k goods. SAJM goods aren't worth what they were a few months ago, but I still expect that 45-60k goods is worth more than about 2k FP. The attack bonus is nice, true, but do you need it?

 

[qaccy]

You get more points for defeating the AI opponent on top than you do by defeating players. If you want to rank highly in PVP Arena, it's 100% about attack boosts so you can defeat Ebony over and over. Building your defense is pointless because no one should be attacking you anyway, and you're actually being counterproductive by encouraging them to attack the higher point AI players. So it's not just that city defense is useless, it actually incentivizes other people playing better at your expense.

The audacity here is funny. Here I am telling you how defensive bonuses have had a purpose even before GE5, and you're attempting to handwave it away despite me telling you explicitly that they've provided a benefit to me. Offensive bonuses of course have value here as well, yes, but you're not doing anything other than outright ignoring the value of defensive bonuses. It's as simple as that. Try opening your eyes while you play the game, maybe you'll notice how much has changed since you shut them!

P.S. If someone's attacking me in the PvP Arena, reread everything you just said and ask yourself why they'd be doing that, because your post (plus the fact that they often end up losing) makes it sound like they're the ones being counterproductive rather than me!

The changes to GE, of which GE5 is the capstone of, have screwed new players. GE was the best source of diamonds and reliably gave FOY to new players for the longest time. This current change has cut diamond generation by around 50%.

FoYs weren't 'reliably' going to, nor being targeted by, so-called 'new players' at all, because an actual 'new player' wasn't even able to reach the point where they could win them. Their best option for getting stuff like that would have been to get them from a Temple of Relics, which is still the case since nothing about the ToR was changed with the GE adjustments. But that's also something that a 'new player' generally isn't going to have for a long time. No, the only ones who were really doing GE for diamonds and FoYs were experienced players, not new ones, looking to farm diamonds. Many of them doing so on multiple servers. But with your, erm...'perspective' regarding defensive military bonuses, you're probably going to flatly deny this as well lol

 

[honey55]

I can easily pass up the forgotten temple. It doesn't give enough boosts to come close to helping me do level 5. Even if it gave 100, it would be a drop in the bucket. I suppose it may make a better balanced city but since i would need way too high boosts to do it, I'll go ahead and increase my city defense over time but really the costs for negotiating, especially if you use diamonds is a step backward. You'll likely have less resources than if you skipped it, especially if you used your city space for buildings other than hundreds of ritual flames. I finally got rid of all my face of the ancients. I have 150 SO and would get more if i could, but its alot of one building. . You know having so many is boring. And you have to have store its to store them or toss them if you don't want to use them anymore. Idont need defence if not doing level 5 anyway and really, my gbs are probably mostly high enough. So why do i need the extra fps. My city makes enough fps to raise gbs in a decent amount of time.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

The changes to GE, of which GE5 is the capstone of, have screwed new players. GE was the best source of diamonds and reliably gave FOY to new players for the longest time. This current change has cut diamond generation by around 50%.

As for whether the FT is good enough, if you negotiate all four weeks it's roughly 45-60k goods. SAJM goods aren't worth what they were a few months ago, but I still expect that 45-60k goods is worth more than about 2k FP. The attack bonus is nice, true, but do you need it?

Where are all of these "newer players" that got screwed? Why aren't they here complaining?

The Forgotten Temple attack army bonus is nice, I don't need it, but it is the defender attack bonus that I do need.

If you play on Tuulech, send me a FR. I'll sell you SAJM goods.

 

[qaccy]

Forgotten Temple is definitely a powerful building. It sucks that it's timed, but anyone who's got the ability to fight through all or most of GE5 will be able to get and maintain it with little to no cost in terms of goods. And with buildings like the Phantom Tower entering the game, I can't imagine it'll be too long before the most advanced players are autobattling their way through GE5 just like anything else.

 

[Orius Maximus]

I can pretty much autobattle the first half of GE5 now. Though I'm also not at endgame, and have lower numbers to overcome.

Maybe it's just me, but I've been seeing more people working on TAs ever since this went in. Over on Parkog, some guild members have been working on Virgos as well, unfortunately my only Virgo is on Jaims.

 

[qaccy]

Having offensive power is definitely important for it. Stacking defense potions actually isn't very helpful, because all that's gonna potentially do is reduce the damage taken to 1 per hit, while your units are also dealing 1 damage back. At that point both sides are effectively doing the same damage to each other, barring Orangery and/or Keen Eye bonuses. Gotta get that damage up to really see improvements in battling!

 

[honey55]

Forgotten Temple is definitely a powerful buiIding. It sucks that it's timed, but anyone who's got the ability to fight through all or most of GE5 will be able to get and maintain it with little to no cost in terms of goods. And with buildings like the Phantom Tower entering the game, I can't imagine it'll be too long before the most advanced players are autobattling their way through GE5 just like anything else.

If it really takes 2000/2000 boosts to do level 5 in Jupiter and the FT gives me 100 total boosts and the PT gives me 53, I only need 35 more powerful buildings to be able to complete level 5. Lets say 20 will do it. That's 20 events. Sounds like maybe a year and a half to me. That is if each event really gives a building with that high of boosts. Someone said they couldn't do the first fight with over 300 of each boost. At any rate, I don't think a year and a half is a short period of time for a game. Just saying. Maybe if you put money in the game and got a city full of PTs, that will work for you. While I might like to have a few, I really don't care to have a city full of all of one building anyway. It just isn't very interesting. I kind of enjoy a variety. I already have too many of certain buildings because that is what you have to do in order to increase your attack boosts. I wish the game encouraged variety instead of accumulating so many of the same building. It just isn't interesting.

 

[Portia the Benevolent]

I just got some fragments for fountain of youth as last GE reward L4. I need 800 fragments. 800!