• We are looking for you!
    Always wanted to join our Supporting Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
    Take a look at our recruitement page for more information and how you can apply:
    Apply

Feedback for Guild Expedition.. Level 5

RedR0ck

Member
Why people are complaining? It's been ages since defense for defending army was used by players. Now is the time. Just take your time and slowly increase your def stats. Not a big deal.
Fragments are another story. Doesn't look good but in general rewards for GE1-4 are better than it was. No crappy victory towers, medals etc.
 

PJS299

Well-Known Member
I just started to actually try to finish GE4, and I was getting diamonds, so to have this cut in half is not exciting. It does seem a little weird that Inno ignores everything that happens on beta and just releases things on live anyway. GE5 looks good on paper, but in reality it seems like a bad idea. Inno is just looking for more ways to make money and make the game pay-to-play. I hate to complain, but this seems like the thing to complain about.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
I just started to actually try to finish GE4, and I was getting diamonds, so to have this cut in half is not exciting. It does seem a little weird that Inno ignores everything that happens on beta and just releases things on live anyway. GE5 looks good on paper, but in reality it seems like a bad idea. Inno is just looking for more ways to make money and make the game pay-to-play. I hate to complain, but this seems like the thing to complain about.
The reduced diamonds was certainly part of their agenda (hence also the nerfs to FoY frequency for building mines). We're not expected to like that, so it's not really a surprise that negative feedback can't change that. (Our feedback did get the other rewards uncoupled from the frequency they want to let us have fountains at least).

Other than the diamonds the first 4 difficulties are an improvement over what you're used to - yes it's fragments, but it's a full kit's worth of fragments each week at least.

The GE5 they might feel beta unable to evaluate in a reasonable time what % of players will go in for it as-is (it takes time to win things to restructure a city even if you do intend to take up the challenge). So maybe not impossible we might see changes if it doesn't have the buy-in they hoped for on live. Regardless, its existence isn't directly hurting you any whatever you decide (worth it or not). There might be some guild drama in guilds that have drama over such things (unlock it or not, make people do it or not) - but they always have something to be dramatic about ;)
 

Xenosaur

Well-Known Member
Yup - NOW - getting a FULL FoY or a FULL FoY shrink kit will be a minimum of 16 weeks or longer - 800 fragments, each one. 3 a year of 1 type, or the other. 2 of 1, and 1 of the other. 3 a year in any world from playing GE 52 weeks to all 4 levels.

This is putting a severe tourniquet on one of the main game arteries for diamond generating strategies. Choking off the path to getting as many diamond generating buildings via GE. The buildings that make city's serve as diamond mines.

FoY or FoY shrink kit - 1 every 16 weeks by assembling 800 fragments.JPG
 

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
Yup - NOW - getting a FULL FoY or a FULL FoY shrink kit will be a minimum of 16 weeks or longer - 800 fragments, each one. 3 a year of 1 type, or the other. 2 of 1, and 1 of the other. 3 a year in any world from playing GE 52 weeks to all 4 levels.

This is putting a severe tourniquet on one of the main game arteries for diamond generating strategies. Choking off the path to getting as many diamond generating buildings via GE. The buildings that make city's serve as diamond mines.

View attachment 20131
Guess for player's wanting to continue building up a diamond farm a high level SC will become a necessity, as well as a high level TOR.
 

Be Chuille

Well-Known Member
Was there possibly a change for GE5 that affects the ranking of the week that was just finished?
Our guild's percentage seems way too low when compared to the individual results.
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
Was there possibly a change for GE5 that affects the ranking of the week that was just finished?
Our guild's percentage seems way too low when compared to the individual results.
Yes. It appears last round now shows the new method of calculation:

GE4 is now 100%, not 133%
Bar is on fire past 75% (which now represents an average of 48/64)
> 100% (more than 64 encounters on average for guild) is now a white fire instead of a red one.
 

Xenosaur

Well-Known Member
Can't stop a freight train. Beta (limited release) works like this:

KNOW that this was baked as the product design you see, from day 1 inside the company.

We're not partners in their designs on things. They do what they need to do for their revenue model.
The courtesy of beta is that they're showing us where they're taking FoE. Just in case a "gem" of an idea or really sagacious concept was missed, they show us the work they did, because a good idea could come to light.

However, there isn't a chance that it gets scrapped from beta input.

Mostly - beta players get to yell and scream and even make nicey-nice (hey! I like it!) , make cogent adjusting suggestions, make ultimatums that people are going to leave. In some extreme cases, try to develop a boycott (which was tried but had very limited appeal).

Inno listens and makes some "adjustments" - as appeasement and IF they make financial sense. That drives everthing.

SO - if you see it now - the basic design won't change. If this hardens you to think you have important input, then realize that you do, but in the final analysis - they're not going to put engineers and graphic artists to work for 6-8 months on something if it had any chance of being totally scrapped when released.

We eat what they serve. We don't help plan the menu (at least not yet).

Just doesn't work like that. Wiggle room? Maybe a little for the best argument, but scrapped? Nope.

The only way to scrap it is to vote with your feet (leave FoE), or vote with your watch (don't play it). Neither will change the core design. It may have further effect on the rewards or difficulty but one thing is for sure.
This being rushed into LIVE the way it was done means Inno is done listening because they heard enough, and they like what they're giving us.
Primarily, every week they delay addressing greatly reduced or FREE diamonds accumulated inside the game, they deliver tons more diamond producing items to players building cities and diamond mines.

They have to stop the pain of much lower game revenue NOW.
 

Dursland

Well-Known Member
If they think they're going to stop the pain of lower game revenue with a release like this then they have another think coming.

Everything they are doing lately is only shooting themselves in the foot in that regard. It's clear that MTG's (inno's new owners) higher ups have no long term vision for FoE and are only interested in maximizing near-term revenue.

Grepolis went through a similar stage and it's at the point where they are now shutting down the regional servers and merging them into the English speaking one. Which is a move coming far too late, sadly - game will die before they can consolidate the player base at the rate they're going.

I was surprised to see FoE open a new market in Japan when they really should be starting to focus on shrinkage and consolidation instead.
 

UBERhelp1

Well-Known Member
For those curious, here's where the Temple of Relics becomes more efficient at getting GE buildings/week than the selection kits:
1680565901748.png
1680565943559.png

In short, a level 8 ToR will give you more FoY/year than the expeditions. So... diamond farms will now require a ToR to actually get any diamond producing buildings! New meta?

It's always going to be more efficient to get Terrace Farms from the expeditions instead of the ToR, but generally, you want to use the ToR to get the base building and only use the Level 4 kit for upgrades.

1680566324412.png
 
Last edited:

planetofthehumans2

Well-Known Member

60 pages of 100% negative feedback on beta (forum mods claim some people love it, nobody knows who), inno still pushes this mess to live.

tl;dr for all: What you could have got from GE in one week is now fragments of 700. You don't get a single building or anything in one week anymore. Negotiation costs 68 goods per selection on the castles costing over 10,000 goods per week. The totems are worthless to build. The prizes are worthless in the grand scheme of level 5. Last fight of level 5 for SAV is 2000% defense or some nonsense. It costs more than levels 1-4 combined to unlock.

Most people on beta arn't playing it.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
I have a "Solve 5 encounters in Guild Expeditions by negotiating" DC. I had already completed GE64 when I opened the DC. The challenge did not autocomplete. I thought I read that, for purposes of challenges and quests, only GE1-64 would count. Looks like L5 is now being considered. Is this intended?
The lesson here is that you should never do anything before opening that day's DC.
 

FulcrumFive

New Member
This is an incredibly bewildering change in my eyes, especially seeing how much negative feedback this received on the beta forum. No real response to the issues, just a vague response basically stating: "trust the plan" and "you just wait, we'll give you OP defensive buildings... eventually", none of which addressed all the other concerns... and then it gets pushed into live servers 2 weeks after, with zero changes? As I said, bewildering. But let's constructively run down the topic and issues:

1) The re-orientation for defensive bonuses. This needs to be tackled first. The idea it self is not even that bad. Defensive bonuses were widely considered useless and needed to be either removed or made relevant. GE5 is a way to do it. To do it as it is now, with an massive defensive requirement curve in GE5 that is unrealistic for almost everyone to achieve at least now is... interesting? It could be done better, but as it stands, it alone isn't too bad - either ignore GE5 or try to drastically rebuild for it. This is also the most controversial point between players, and this is the aspect that has "people who loved it!" (aka people, like me I think, who would like to see some tweaking for defense). But here is the thing, GE5 change is not just addition of GE5, its also pre-packed with a lot of weird, anti-player changes in GE4, as well as the weakness of GE5's rewards (concern about which got ZERO feedback in the aforementioned response of the devs to GE5 backlash). So let's see those concerns.

2) Weakness of GE5 rewards. Most of this is word of mouth, as I am not an incredibly experienced player, but I did carefully follow the discourse on GE5. And the simple thing is, the rewards are not considered to be worth the massive cost of unlocking GE5, rebuilding to city def or trading with goods. ESPECIALLY not when the ultimate reward is a 1/4th of a subscription service to the real reward, which blows up if you don't do GE5 weekly (as a little feedback, I think it would feel way better if the last reward was fragmented and took many weeks to acquire, but was permanent). So were there any buffs to the GE5 rewards in the 2 weeks following the announcement? Nope. Nor was the issue even given acknowledgement. But again, at least you could ignore GE5 and the change wouldn't affect you further if this was the only issue for it.

3) The GE1-4 rewards were nerfed in basically every regard. First and most obviously - less diamonds. And okay, this is painful for FTP players with IA expedition worlds, but if the financial situation is bad, this can be justified. However it does not seem to consider that this will also lead to a lot less player activity as (at least this is what I will do) these farm worlds will be abandoned, or just transformed into mostly inactive Wishing Well farms. Also it should be added that GE was a great way for early players to get free diamond expansions while they were still cheap, helping them expand and get into the game better - far harder now. Secondly, the fragmentation of building rewards is a massive and absolutely uncalled for nerf to the GE rewards. It might seem some people are angry at fragments as a concept, but the real issue is that the fragments are used here to hide the fact that you are getting far less rewards. And no, the RNG removal isn't balancing it. Let me put it clear - with current fragmentation rewards, you are getting less buildings *you would want and target for in selection kits*, than if you would get RNG rewards as was before. This is not even mentioning that you are not getting the "useless" buildings, which could be traded in the Antiques Dealer, and thus be useful. And this is all so strange because these GE buildings aren't even that super powerful to begin with. Maybe its an attempt to secretly give you less FoY's, but at that point just nerf the RNG chance to get FoY's instead of messing up the whole GE reward structure. Once again, this change most of all hurts new players, who would benefit from getting more early FP producing buildings, which in the long run is better than the new increase in chest FP rewards. Oh and finally, the Renovation and One Up kit rewards are gone - hope you got your event buildings to generate them or are leveling a Temple of Relics, else your growth is hampered (once again, a nerf hurting everyone, but new players most of all).

So, to sum up the GE5 update - a new GE level that implements an okay idea in a very forced and rough way along with meh rewards, packaged along with a wide array of nerfs that for all intents and purposes suck the fun out of GE1-4, nerfs its building rewards (that weren't even that good), nerfs diamond production and removes entirely a way to acquire 1up and reno kits - all of which was already said by people smarter and more experianced at the game than me, all of whom got ignored, patronizingly grouped up into "the dinosaurs who only want attack bonuses and no defense" and of course the change then was pushed into live servers at light speeds.
 

Xenosaur

Well-Known Member
This is an incredibly bewildering change in my eyes, especially seeing how much negative feedback this received on the beta forum. No real response to the issues, just a vague response basically stating: "trust the plan" and "you just wait, we'll give you OP defensive buildings... eventually", none of which addressed all the other concerns... and then it gets pushed into live servers 2 weeks after, with zero changes? As I said, bewildering. But let's constructively run down the topic and issues:

1) The re-orientation for defensive bonuses. This needs to be tackled first. The idea it self is not even that bad. Defensive bonuses were widely considered useless and needed to be either removed or made relevant. GE5 is a way to do it. To do it as it is now, with an massive defensive requirement curve in GE5 that is unrealistic for almost everyone to achieve at least now is... interesting? It could be done better, but as it stands, it alone isn't too bad - either ignore GE5 or try to drastically rebuild for it. This is also the most controversial point between players, and this is the aspect that has "people who loved it!" (aka people, like me I think, who would like to see some tweaking for defense). But here is the thing, GE5 change is not just addition of GE5, its also pre-packed with a lot of weird, anti-player changes in GE4, as well as the weakness of GE5's rewards (concern about which got ZERO feedback in the aforementioned response of the devs to GE5 backlash). So let's see those concerns.

2) Weakness of GE5 rewards. Most of this is word of mouth, as I am not an incredibly experienced player, but I did carefully follow the discourse on GE5. And the simple thing is, the rewards are not considered to be worth the massive cost of unlocking GE5, rebuilding to city def or trading with goods. ESPECIALLY not when the ultimate reward is a 1/4th of a subscription service to the real reward, which blows up if you don't do GE5 weekly (as a little feedback, I think it would feel way better if the last reward was fragmented and took many weeks to acquire, but was permanent). So were there any buffs to the GE5 rewards in the 2 weeks following the announcement? Nope. Nor was the issue even given acknowledgement. But again, at least you could ignore GE5 and the change wouldn't affect you further if this was the only issue for it.

3) The GE1-4 rewards were nerfed in basically every regard. First and most obviously - less diamonds. And okay, this is painful for FTP players with IA expedition worlds, but if the financial situation is bad, this can be justified. However it does not seem to consider that this will also lead to a lot less player activity as (at least this is what I will do) these farm worlds will be abandoned, or just transformed into mostly inactive Wishing Well farms. Also it should be added that GE was a great way for early players to get free diamond expansions while they were still cheap, helping them expand and get into the game better - far harder now. Secondly, the fragmentation of building rewards is a massive and absolutely uncalled for nerf to the GE rewards. It might seem some people are angry at fragments as a concept, but the real issue is that the fragments are used here to hide the fact that you are getting far less rewards. And no, the RNG removal isn't balancing it. Let me put it clear - with current fragmentation rewards, you are getting less buildings *you would want and target for in selection kits*, than if you would get RNG rewards as was before. This is not even mentioning that you are not getting the "useless" buildings, which could be traded in the Antiques Dealer, and thus be useful. And this is all so strange because these GE buildings aren't even that super powerful to begin with. Maybe its an attempt to secretly give you less FoY's, but at that point just nerf the RNG chance to get FoY's instead of messing up the whole GE reward structure. Once again, this change most of all hurts new players, who would benefit from getting more early FP producing buildings, which in the long run is better than the new increase in chest FP rewards. Oh and finally, the Renovation and One Up kit rewards are gone - hope you got your event buildings to generate them or are leveling a Temple of Relics, else your growth is hampered (once again, a nerf hurting everyone, but new players most of all).

So, to sum up the GE5 update - a new GE level that implements an okay idea in a very forced and rough way along with meh rewards, packaged along with a wide array of nerfs that for all intents and purposes suck the fun out of GE1-4, nerfs its building rewards (that weren't even that good), nerfs diamond production and removes entirely a way to acquire 1up and reno kits - all of which was already said by people smarter and more experianced at the game than me, all of whom got ignored, patronizingly grouped up into "the dinosaurs who only want attack bonuses and no defense" and of course the change then was pushed into live servers at light speeds.

Cogent post, @FulcrumFive

Thank you for hitting the same top salient points made in beta, and here in Live (so far).


I do not personally think people are going to adopt even an "over time" orthogonal strategy to rejuvenate any city defense resource allocations in a game that has multiple venues that are designed around ATTACK. Guilds will open it for interest only now, but not consistently in the future.


Current guild GE TEAM records for ATTACK perfection are now toasted, you might as well screenshot your accomplishments now.

INNO refuses to keep their purity (dare I say SANCTITY??) of what was accomplished previously by guilds built for the way GE initially and currently (until today) presented itself: Attack only.


No way people who have taken months, and years at learning the ropes to disregard city defense and still be safe, will wholesale warm to removing buildings or allocating space, time, resources, money and or diamonds to building up city defense to address 1 level of GE that gives diluted value, and weak rewards over huge amounts of game "future time". 16 weeks to earn 1 FoY? Seriously? Yet people will get Terrace Farms or TF upgrade kits each week. Gobsmacked, eh?

A triple whammy to the user. The war venues in FoE for ATTACK way outnumber the HACKED together strategy to add 1 OPPOSITE focused boost asset to a venue that's been all about attack since it was born.

Hail Mary pass. The way to do this is to craft a DEFENSIVELY postured duplicate track for GE, and let people warm and acclimate to it - like the did to ALL the ATTACK venues (GBG, original GE, etc).

I even have to quizzically ponder what's going on "behind the curtain" at how the backdrop is changing too. More daily specials in the AD - Tactician tower. This Anniversary event? I'm getting tons of BLUE POTIONS for prizes. More Ritual flames, too.

It's LAB RAT time!!

Inno's quietly crafting a predilection for winnable assets to help players in GE 5 way over what was done a few weeks ago. They knew they were going to dump this on live before it's done with beta, or before they did a 2nd round of balances.

They're done with it, and it's time for us to experience it, warts and all.
 
Last edited:

SpinDrifter

Member
Don't have an issue with difficulty, rather with the lousy rewards. I'm SAAB. I don't need any of what is being offered. And the super building at 25 fragments - it adds 40 / 50 boost - to someone in a high age with 2000 + boost - adding 50 is adding 2.5% - which is noise in the boost calculation. It costs way, way, too much effort for very little gain, and with the guild costs thrown in - very, very poor return on any effort / cost investment.
 
Top