Pericles the Lion
Well-Known Member
It came from the CM on the Beta Forum
forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/wildlife-event-2023.16091/page-7#post-150971
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Feedback for Guild Expedition.. Level 5
- Thread starter mellofax
- Start date
forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/wildlife-event-2023.16091/page-7#post-150971
Pericles the Lion
Well-Known Member
Yep! In seven days of play (100 energy per board, 4 boards per day) I've collected over 100 blue potions in my main city. This is more than I've collected in nearly 3 years of play. Same on all 5 of my cities. I think that this is intentional. INNO wants us to test the water using an unsustainable number of potions in order to soften us up for buying the next new thing in terms of defending army boost producing buildings. I'm not going to take the bait unless they lower the level of difficulty and/or improve the rewards.
Darkest.Knight
Well-Known Member
Oh well on diamond rewards, I hope I still get any many items to sell in the market.
stymie of Suwannee
Active Member
BOOOOOO!!!! Fragments of garbage! Garbage I would have too many of, whole. BOOOOOO!!!!
ScreamingZiva
Active Member
All the "balancing" (let's not even get into level 5) seems to be based around limiting free diamonds. Previously, if you were lucky, you would be able to get a Fountain of Youth for completing the GE. Now, you can get about 50 of 800 fragments for a FOY? That's 16 weeks!
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
This is nitpicking, I know. But could we please put the fragments on the last pages of our inventory? Please! They were already a nuisance before, but now we're going to end up with 3 or 4 pages (at least) of fragments before we get to anything useful in our inventory. It may be a minor thing, but throw us a bone here.
Camleon
New Member
To recap:
- Rushed lvl 5 in beta without a 2nd round of balancing,
- In a game that was always pure attack, obsolete defense, you're adding 1 lvl using defense in the middle of an event with no way to turn around and get used to it.
- Cut rewards in half for lvl 1-4. No more full prices,
- lvl 5 gives 100% chances to get a piece of crap that everyone throws in the AD on some bases?
- Become Forge of Fragments... 800 fragments to get 1 FoY... REALLY???
- Only way to get defense boost this event is to pay 15$ to get the event building or pay massive amount of diamonds to reach full golden upgrade,
- Can't even complete first base with 10% def from (24 hours???) tavern and a 30% pot... (8 hours) Right now, the only area we really need city defense is lvl 5 of GE. Why not, at the very least, make city defense boost from the tavern on the same scale as the negotiation ones? (15mins/30mins/1hour)
- Diamond farms become useless, even if you're putting in the work hours (40 hours/week)
- Kills small players, strangles average and laughs at hardcore players as they need nothing you're offering from this new change.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you gave us no time to adjust, (2 weeks for a 11 years old game) no rewards making it worth the hassle, (Mostly fragments and a big price that's not worth putting so much defense in your city or use that many goods to get) You're basically telling us it's do or die. Pay or we don't care. Even if you're paying, you get minimal rewards and we still don't care about anything else than your money...
We can understand that you need to pay employees and want to make some money.
That being said, this was a free to play game for 11 years. You can't force your core players to pay or miss on new content...! Even notorious games like Diablo 2, WoW, LoL, etc... weren't that arrogant!
There are so many good games out there that costs much less to enjoy.
Without players, there's no more income at all.
Would also keep in mind that Inno games are a big No-No. Overall, great business model if you're asking me...
- Rushed lvl 5 in beta without a 2nd round of balancing,
- In a game that was always pure attack, obsolete defense, you're adding 1 lvl using defense in the middle of an event with no way to turn around and get used to it.
- Cut rewards in half for lvl 1-4. No more full prices,
- lvl 5 gives 100% chances to get a piece of crap that everyone throws in the AD on some bases?
- Become Forge of Fragments... 800 fragments to get 1 FoY... REALLY???
- Only way to get defense boost this event is to pay 15$ to get the event building or pay massive amount of diamonds to reach full golden upgrade,
- Can't even complete first base with 10% def from (24 hours???) tavern and a 30% pot... (8 hours) Right now, the only area we really need city defense is lvl 5 of GE. Why not, at the very least, make city defense boost from the tavern on the same scale as the negotiation ones? (15mins/30mins/1hour)
- Diamond farms become useless, even if you're putting in the work hours (40 hours/week)
- Kills small players, strangles average and laughs at hardcore players as they need nothing you're offering from this new change.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you gave us no time to adjust, (2 weeks for a 11 years old game) no rewards making it worth the hassle, (Mostly fragments and a big price that's not worth putting so much defense in your city or use that many goods to get) You're basically telling us it's do or die. Pay or we don't care. Even if you're paying, you get minimal rewards and we still don't care about anything else than your money...
We can understand that you need to pay employees and want to make some money.
That being said, this was a free to play game for 11 years. You can't force your core players to pay or miss on new content...! Even notorious games like Diablo 2, WoW, LoL, etc... weren't that arrogant!
There are so many good games out there that costs much less to enjoy.
Without players, there's no more income at all.
Would also keep in mind that Inno games are a big No-No. Overall, great business model if you're asking me...
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Xenosaur
Well-Known Member
Precisely - glad you noticed it too. That methodically positioned reshaping of the game by the puppet masters!!
Lab Rat time! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain (manipulating the game).
The great and powerful OZ has spoken!!
Portia the Benevolent
Active Member
So now we get even less rewards. Now it’s just fragments of the same junky rewards. So glad I got my ToR to 90’or wherever it is, for even crummier rewards than before. Get rid of the fragments. While you’re at it, fire the development team.
Orius Maximus
Well-Known Member
This is my initial reaction to the changes. I'll have to really play things out for a few weeks to see what things are really like.
I've only done level 1 so far, and haven't seen level 5 yet, so I'm going to wait and see how that plays out.
But the changed rewards, in a word, suck.
On level 1 and 2, the first, fifth, and ninth encounters are now all coins and supplies. This is trash. They were trash before, and simply increasing them to hundreds of thousands each on my main is no improvement. I didn't need them when they were in the thousands or tens of thousands, and I don't need them now. I have 2.6 billion coins in my city and make probably around 2-3 million coins a day. This number is actually down because I recently removed my St. Mark's to make room, before it was something like 6-7 million a day. Supplies are at about 780 million or so, and I make at least 2 million of those a day too. I'm spending them on just about nothing, the cost to recruit units, complete event or DC quests or build stuff in settlements aren't even a rounding error for me. In my alt cities, I have huge unused surpluses too. Yet, Inno continues to toss them out as trash prizes in events and apparently considers an increase in them in GE an improvement.
One the first three levels, the second encounter in each group of coins is now FP or a small chance of extra attempts. Bar FP is also becoming worth much less given how much that's cranked out. My city already makes about 400 FP a day. That's before I get extra rewards from Himeji prizes, GE relics, GbG prizes, etc. There are days I might be getting somewhere upwards of 700 or 800 bar FP, and I'm probably on the low end for long established players. I don't need these all over the map either. It's almost too much FP for me to spend, and it doesn't help that the bar caps at 100 unless you spend actual money to hold more for a limited time. At least it's not the old limit of 10 FP.
The third out of every fourth chest at least remains mostly unchanged as they're still units, and that's fine. Except for level 4 were the units replace the old diamond prizes.
ToR blueprints have now been bumped up to Level 3. This hurts new players. Under the old system, the 4th encounter always had a 75% chance for a ToR print. This was good, as it helped them build the ToR and get the full benefit from GE by having access to relics. Now, newer players will probably need to rely on established players for prints rather than earning their first set in low level GE. And how high do established players already have their ToRs making it that much harder for new players to get the prints?
And these new buildings aren't that impressive. Forgotten Temple? It's a bunch of fragments that once constructed turns into a limited use building. Limited use buildings are more trash, since once they run out, they're just space wasters, and you can't even recycle them in the AD. The feathered serpent is a chain building, and I'm not overly fond of those, because they require very specific placements and chain into long rectangular footprints that do not work well with FoE's lack of building rotation. And it doesn't look all that special or unique compared to existing chains. The divine sky watch again requires fragments, but isn't a terribly impressive attack booster. The upgraded ritual flame is the best of the lot, but again, pile of fragments.
The old GE building prizes have been reduced to fragments of selection kits, which probably is bad for the newer players again, but there's still the relics. The junk buildings were removed, which sucks because while I never really needed any of them, they served as good AD fodder, and it's been getting harder to collect stuff to sell in the AD. The extra attempts were spaced out in a way that there was always a chance to quickly advance through the GE, and now that's gone too. At least I can buy attempts with medals since I have all my expansions and over 3 million more medals to spare, so there's little else to use them on. My guild isn't active in GvG, so there's no point dumping them into the treasury.
Why the hell are the unlock costs for level 5 so much higher when compared to the previous levels? As I'm now one the leaders of my guild and have responsibility for unlocking GE, this matters to me.
I have to see what fighting on level 5 is going to be like, and I'm going to see how negotiations have been affected on Parkog, where I built a city to negotiate GE. I'm probably going to end up abandoning the IA GE city I have on Tuulech, since I don't feel like busting my ass there for reduced diamonds on level 4.
I've only done level 1 so far, and haven't seen level 5 yet, so I'm going to wait and see how that plays out.
But the changed rewards, in a word, suck.
On level 1 and 2, the first, fifth, and ninth encounters are now all coins and supplies. This is trash. They were trash before, and simply increasing them to hundreds of thousands each on my main is no improvement. I didn't need them when they were in the thousands or tens of thousands, and I don't need them now. I have 2.6 billion coins in my city and make probably around 2-3 million coins a day. This number is actually down because I recently removed my St. Mark's to make room, before it was something like 6-7 million a day. Supplies are at about 780 million or so, and I make at least 2 million of those a day too. I'm spending them on just about nothing, the cost to recruit units, complete event or DC quests or build stuff in settlements aren't even a rounding error for me. In my alt cities, I have huge unused surpluses too. Yet, Inno continues to toss them out as trash prizes in events and apparently considers an increase in them in GE an improvement.
One the first three levels, the second encounter in each group of coins is now FP or a small chance of extra attempts. Bar FP is also becoming worth much less given how much that's cranked out. My city already makes about 400 FP a day. That's before I get extra rewards from Himeji prizes, GE relics, GbG prizes, etc. There are days I might be getting somewhere upwards of 700 or 800 bar FP, and I'm probably on the low end for long established players. I don't need these all over the map either. It's almost too much FP for me to spend, and it doesn't help that the bar caps at 100 unless you spend actual money to hold more for a limited time. At least it's not the old limit of 10 FP.
The third out of every fourth chest at least remains mostly unchanged as they're still units, and that's fine. Except for level 4 were the units replace the old diamond prizes.
ToR blueprints have now been bumped up to Level 3. This hurts new players. Under the old system, the 4th encounter always had a 75% chance for a ToR print. This was good, as it helped them build the ToR and get the full benefit from GE by having access to relics. Now, newer players will probably need to rely on established players for prints rather than earning their first set in low level GE. And how high do established players already have their ToRs making it that much harder for new players to get the prints?
And these new buildings aren't that impressive. Forgotten Temple? It's a bunch of fragments that once constructed turns into a limited use building. Limited use buildings are more trash, since once they run out, they're just space wasters, and you can't even recycle them in the AD. The feathered serpent is a chain building, and I'm not overly fond of those, because they require very specific placements and chain into long rectangular footprints that do not work well with FoE's lack of building rotation. And it doesn't look all that special or unique compared to existing chains. The divine sky watch again requires fragments, but isn't a terribly impressive attack booster. The upgraded ritual flame is the best of the lot, but again, pile of fragments.
The old GE building prizes have been reduced to fragments of selection kits, which probably is bad for the newer players again, but there's still the relics. The junk buildings were removed, which sucks because while I never really needed any of them, they served as good AD fodder, and it's been getting harder to collect stuff to sell in the AD. The extra attempts were spaced out in a way that there was always a chance to quickly advance through the GE, and now that's gone too. At least I can buy attempts with medals since I have all my expansions and over 3 million more medals to spare, so there's little else to use them on. My guild isn't active in GvG, so there's no point dumping them into the treasury.
Why the hell are the unlock costs for level 5 so much higher when compared to the previous levels? As I'm now one the leaders of my guild and have responsibility for unlocking GE, this matters to me.
I have to see what fighting on level 5 is going to be like, and I'm going to see how negotiations have been affected on Parkog, where I built a city to negotiate GE. I'm probably going to end up abandoning the IA GE city I have on Tuulech, since I don't feel like busting my ass there for reduced diamonds on level 4.
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Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
This is the only part of your post I disagree with. Only Diamond farms built specifically for GE become useless. My 7 Diamond farms that rely almost exclusively on Wishing Wells and Fountains of Youth are really unaffected. Except for the fact that they'll take less of my time because I won't be bothering with GE in them at all other than to fulfill DC and event quests. Well, and they won't grow very much anymore, given that it's so hard to get those two buildings now.
Camleon
New Member
You are right on that. Mine are still young so requires to fight GE to get WW's/FoY. With recent changes, small players are basically told to go find a new game IMHO.
Orius Maximus
Well-Known Member
IA diamond farms were effective because fighting was easy with the lack of enemy boosts. Traditional WW farms have become harder to set up because WW and shrinks have become more scarce in events. There was still the possibility of getting FoYs in GE, but that's been fragmented. Now the WW farm looks like it'll take time to set up by earning them through DCs, there's a chance of getting one every week, and there's the daily chest with the 5% chance and the WW fragment chest. And there's the WWs that can be won through the Castle. Get the city to at least EMA for the AD, there's the possibility of buying WW parts there. There's also Hedge Mazes, and they pop twice a day.
I suppose one could also put a Seed Vault in the city for the small chance of diamonds from that, just build up a big friend list and use the ads to aid all. If Inno wants to put ads in the game, I suppose we could exploit them for diamond farming.
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Orius Maximus
Well-Known Member
Some of these recent changes do feel like a desperate attempt to shore up falling revenue, but they may be harmful in the long run. If there's increased barriers for new players to get established, then they won't stick around.
Minigal
Member
Or even their own tab to sort them all.
Wildelk68
Member
From what I have seen and experienced on day one Our guild will probably ignore GE5 altogether and may do the same for the entire GE! Since the rewards have been dumbed down there isn't a lot of incentive for players! In addition it seems all rewards have been reduced or had the algorithms nerfed to decrease the frequency!
Pericles the Lion
Well-Known Member
Improvise, adapt, overcome. I have 4 towns that started as GE diamond farms. As time marched on I planted a lot of WWs and FoYs to supplement the GE diamonds. With the diamonds in GE getting nerfed I'll build a ToR and take it to 80. At that level it will spawn a FoY every other season, on average. At that point I guess I'll just wait for INNO to nerf the ToR and/or the WWs/FoYs.
KeithOfTheForge
Active Member
Here are my thoughts / results of level 5 of GE:
I couldn't even beat the first encounter fighting so I decided to just negotiate all the way through all 16 encounters. In total, I spent over 5,300 goods through the 16 encounters. Even with the +1 attempt from my tavern, I had to spend diamonds for extra attempts probably 8 times.
There is one fortification available for negotiating and it reduces your negotiation costs by a certain amount (the two I tested were 3 and 6).
These are NOT worth it at all! The reduce by 3 cost 90 goods and the reduce by 6 cost 140 goods. You would have to be one of the absolute worst negotiators in the world for these to even help you.
For example, if you bought the reduce by 6, you are saving 30 goods per round if all 5 negotiation slots are open. You can get everything wrong for the first 4 attempts and only save 120 goods. I don't see too many people doing that.
In total, my new rewards were:
Fragment of Forgotten Temple: 50 / 200
Fragment of Feathered Serpent Selection: 50 / 200 (Max is 3 levels)
Fragment of Feathered Serpent Chain: 25 /100
I would like to get a max serpent but that is going to take 12 total GEs. I have over 350k goods and can easily make up the 5,300 goods per week but, with the guild unlock cost so high (I don't know exactly what it is), I really don't know if my guild will want to open up GE 12 times (unless I pay for it myself lol).
All in all, I really don't think GE5 is worth it. Battles are terrible and the goods cost to negotiate are probably cost prohibitive for many players.
I couldn't even beat the first encounter fighting so I decided to just negotiate all the way through all 16 encounters. In total, I spent over 5,300 goods through the 16 encounters. Even with the +1 attempt from my tavern, I had to spend diamonds for extra attempts probably 8 times.
There is one fortification available for negotiating and it reduces your negotiation costs by a certain amount (the two I tested were 3 and 6).
These are NOT worth it at all! The reduce by 3 cost 90 goods and the reduce by 6 cost 140 goods. You would have to be one of the absolute worst negotiators in the world for these to even help you.
For example, if you bought the reduce by 6, you are saving 30 goods per round if all 5 negotiation slots are open. You can get everything wrong for the first 4 attempts and only save 120 goods. I don't see too many people doing that.
In total, my new rewards were:
Fragment of Forgotten Temple: 50 / 200
Fragment of Feathered Serpent Selection: 50 / 200 (Max is 3 levels)
Fragment of Feathered Serpent Chain: 25 /100
I would like to get a max serpent but that is going to take 12 total GEs. I have over 350k goods and can easily make up the 5,300 goods per week but, with the guild unlock cost so high (I don't know exactly what it is), I really don't know if my guild will want to open up GE 12 times (unless I pay for it myself lol).
All in all, I really don't think GE5 is worth it. Battles are terrible and the goods cost to negotiate are probably cost prohibitive for many players.
-Chen-
Active Member
I agree that it should be hard, especially with those buildings, so I'm not gonna complain much, but there were a couple of things that annoyed me a bit during my first go.
First, way too many fragments, should only have those for the new buildings, On top of it being kinda lame IMO to get fragments for things like Store Building and Faces, when you combine all that stuff with all the event buildings that give fragments now, my storage is going to be cluttered with a gazillion fragment items to sift through now.
Second, the reduce goods cost option is pointless at it's current rate, the reducing choices option is nice, but I only got it 3 times in the entire level. Forcing the player to pay diamonds just so they can pay goods for the useful item is VERY lame. Either offer them both each time, or at least make the other option worthwhile
First, way too many fragments, should only have those for the new buildings, On top of it being kinda lame IMO to get fragments for things like Store Building and Faces, when you combine all that stuff with all the event buildings that give fragments now, my storage is going to be cluttered with a gazillion fragment items to sift through now.
Second, the reduce goods cost option is pointless at it's current rate, the reducing choices option is nice, but I only got it 3 times in the entire level. Forcing the player to pay diamonds just so they can pay goods for the useful item is VERY lame. Either offer them both each time, or at least make the other option worthwhile
Darkest.Knight
Well-Known Member
I'll wait until tomorrow to check out lvl5, no point in rushing it. Too bad on diamonds rewards being removed, between events I bet I'd get a minimum of 500 doing the expedition. I won't be surprised if I don't get any thru entire expedition.