GBG: Current state of affairs (a protest...)

[Bosmang]

Dear Inno, dear all.

Yes, this thread has a negative title to it. A protest, if I may repeat myself.

It's all on account of the current way Inno had programmed GBG to be played.

It's gotten to a point that at a certain guild/player level what has been an otherwise very enjoyable game, it's turned into an almost 'profession' level -- in terms of time spent -- in order to keep our heads above water level.

But... Profession? Wait a minute! We're not payed to play! It's exactly the other way around: oftentimes *we pay Inno* to play!

So, how come things gave gotten to this point? A point where those who can't sit in front of a laptop or have a mobile on their hands *at an exact time of their day* will see their efforts go down the proverbial drain?? A game by definition, is supposed to be enjoyable and fun, not a chore! For that we have our day jobs!

We don't need Inno to wave a carrot in front of our heads in the vain (pointless?) hope of getting some vapor reward… It's… A GAME!

By now some of you may feel like this rant is pointless as we, the players, are not the ones calling the shots (we "limit" ourselves to pay/play/go on). One thing's for sure: I'm writing this out of frustration. Frustration for seeing the top players in my main city's guild move away to other guilds in hopes of having a better shot at following that "Inno carrot" in a more effective way.

Our guild used to be proud of calling itself "The strongest little guild in our server"! By the way things have been going, we'll soon be "The latest strongest little guild to disband"... :/

I'm sorry for feeling this way and I apologize if I'm the only on this boat but I would simply appeal to Inno so they may somehow revise the way GBG is currently played and, at the same time, to give us a way to play GVG on mobile (I know the reasons why we can't, but).

Inno: at the very least, please stop making GBG such a timed way to battle.

Thanks for reading and… Forge away!

 

[Bosmang]

Detail for you: I'm retired! Free time is something I have plenty of. I'm thinking of all those who've felt the need to leave a guild just on account of GBG.

Maybe their bosses -- heck, YOUR boss! -- are paying them to play a game... If not, well: change jobs!

 

[Mor-Rioghain]

I feel your frustration and based on in-game chats and what I've seen here in the forum, many other players are frustrated but I've never actually heard anyone really complain about the amount of time spent playing BG. Quite conversely, the players seem to be more angry - as a general rule - about all things to do with Big Guilds muscling out Small Guilds or Cash Cow FP-Farming and so on rather than time.

If you were writing a proposal to affect this change, what would be your actual solution? Most have been suggested and been voted down for all sorts of sensible reasons - by players just like us.

The truth is that is is the players themselves who turned BG into something it was never intended to be - a 24/7 chore - a job, if you will, that seems never-ending with no hope of retirement in view ... unless you choose to play it differently. That - is a personal choice. You have to ask yourself this: What game out there is going to just be a free-for-all if achievements of some sort or tangible rewards are to be gained? Why would any company want to allocate that much of their budgets in terms of design, packaging, advertising, design, design, and more design to please a player 24-7?

Hmmm....They already did when they designed the Battlegrounds feature by enabling the sectors to unlock every 4 hours.

And before you go and reply to me like you did the poster before me, I'll clue you in to something: I'm also retired and I choose to spend the time I do on this game however I play with many, many working folks who still allocate a lot of their free time to a game they enjoy and spend time with people they have come to care about. We all matter, Sir. All of us. You are just one in who knows how many hundreds of thousands and if you are going to post your 'complaint,' you might want to remember it should be a discussion - spirited if that's the way it turns out - but still a discussion not an opportunity to attack those who don't agree with you. (If you read any of the threads on the subject of Battlegrounds on this forum, you'd already know that your particular opinion on the issue is a bit different and maybe even unpopular, to wit, you should have expected people to disagree with you).

 

[Dursland]

I don't see how you could change the system to a non-time based one, and still keep it a group game. If it was a "hit anytime you want" it would be set up like PvP Arena Tower - likely not possible to configure it in a way where people can co-operate if everybody is hitting on their own time.

Timing is just part of FoE. Events have it, GvG has it, GBG has it, and even GE starts at 8am on a Tuesday, although you do have all week to finish it.

As for players jumping to a stronger guild, there's not much you can do about it. Happened to me in Dilmun too, had a guild at #1 with very decent roster. Suddenly half a dozen players who were in indy with hovers decide they want their own guild so they can build cheap siege camps.

This hampered us badly in gbg then our remaining top 2 fighters left and the guild disintegrated from there. It's just a fact of FoE that top players will go to top guilds, or form a specific farming guild with everyone in same era to keep siege camp costs low.

 

[Just An Observer]

FoE is a game where real gamers are a distinct minority. If serious GBG is beyond a player, they can avoid it by not joining a Big Dog guild, of which there are just a few on each server. There are thousands of do-nothing guilds for the casual player to join.

 

[Bosmang]

I feel your frustration and based on in-game chats and what I've seen here in the forum, many other players are frustrated but I've never actually heard anyone really complain about the amount of time spent playing BG. Quite conversely, the players seem to be more angry - as a general rule - about all things to do with Big Guilds muscling out Small Guilds or Cash Cow FP-Farming and so on rather than time.

If you were writing a proposal to affect this change, what would be your actual solution? Most have been suggested and been voted down for all sorts of sensible reasons - by players just like us.

The truth is that is is the players themselves who turned BG into something it was never intended to be - a 24/7 chore - a job, if you will, that seems never-ending with no hope of retirement in view ... unless you choose to play it differently. That - is a personal choice. You have to ask yourself this: What game out there is going to just be a free-for-all if achievements of some sort or tangible rewards are to be gained? Why would any company want to allocate that much of their budgets in terms of design, packaging, advertising, design, design, and more design to please a player 24-7?

Hmmm....They already did when they designed the Battlegrounds feature by enabling the sectors to unlock every 4 hours.

And before you go and reply to me like you did the poster before me, I'll clue you in to something: I'm also retired and I choose to spend the time I do on this game however I play with many, many working folks who still allocate a lot of their free time to a game they enjoy and spend time with people they have come to care about. We all matter, Sir. All of us. You are just one in who knows how many hundreds of thousands and if you are going to post your 'complaint,' you might want to remember it should be a discussion - spirited if that's the way it turns out - but still a discussion not an opportunity to attack those who don't agree with you. (If you read any of the threads on the subject of Battlegrounds on this forum, you'd already know that your particular opinion on the issue is a bit different and maybe even unpopular, to w

I feel your frustration and based on in-game chats and what I've seen here in the forum, many other players are frustrated but I've never actually heard anyone really complain about the amount of time spent playing BG. Quite conversely, the players seem to be more angry - as a general rule - about all things to do with Big Guilds muscling out Small Guilds or Cash Cow FP-Farming and so on rather than time.

If you were writing a proposal to affect this change, what would be your actual solution? Most have been suggested and been voted down for all sorts of sensible reasons - by players just like us.

The truth is that is is the players themselves who turned BG into something it was never intended to be - a 24/7 chore - a job, if you will, that seems never-ending with no hope of retirement in view ... unless you choose to play it differently. That - is a personal choice. You have to ask yourself this: What game out there is going to just be a free-for-all if achievements of some sort or tangible rewards are to be gained? Why would any company want to allocate that much of their budgets in terms of design, packaging, advertising, design, design, and more design to please a player 24-7?

Hmmm....They already did when they designed the Battlegrounds feature by enabling the sectors to unlock every 4 hours.

And before you go and reply to me like you did the poster before me, I'll clue you in to something: I'm also retired and I choose to spend the time I do on this game however I play with many, many working folks who still allocate a lot of their free time to a game they enjoy and spend time with people they have come to care about. We all matter, Sir. All of us. You are just one in who knows how many hundreds of thousands and if you are going to post your 'complaint,' you might want to remember it should be a discussion - spirited if that's the way it turns out - but still a discussion not an opportunity to attack those who don't agree with you. (If you read any of the threads on the subject of Battlegrounds on this forum, you'd already know that your particular opinion on the issue is a bit different and maybe even unpopular, to wit, you should have expected people to disagree with you).

First of all I've never-never meant to insult anyone (if I ever did, then I'm offering sincere apologies).

Solutions, you ask? Like I wrote originally and for lack of Inno keeping GBG things as they are, how about giving players the chance to play a GvG on mobile? It doesn't appear to be as strenuous.

I'm one of the active players in GBG 9n every campaign and, I repeat, I have zero problems, time-spent wise, in keeping it this way. It's seeing people leaving guilds for others supposedly more "accommodating" in terms of GBG that I'd like to see change somehow.

As for you final paragraph, within accepted rules of respect for others, I've never been one to omit what I feel about this matter, however "unpopular" it may be.

 

[Bosmang]

FoE is a game where real gamers are a distinct minority. If serious GBG is beyond a player, they can avoid it by not joining a Big Dog guild, of which there are just a few on each server. There are thousands of do-nothing guilds for the casual player to join.

My guild never was a Big Dog one. Until the latest GBG developments we've had at most a couple of players leaving in many months (100% due to real life issues). Until recently we have had a spectacular environment, we all get along well and cooperate whenever we're called to. When I see (I'm a mere guild minion; no roles whatsoever) ever more members leaving because of GBG -- or do they say it was because of BGB -- almost short of disbanding, then I can't pretend like it's all good. Hence my OP.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Xenosaur]

FoE is a game where real gamers are a distinct minority. If serious GBG is beyond a player, they can avoid it by not joining a Big Dog guild, of which there are just a few on each server. There are thousands of do-nothing guilds for the casual player to join.

Yes - priority is what you make of it. GbG was released in November of 2019 and players have had 4 years to find a cadence, or multiple cadences, that can fit their real lives and interests, even when they ebb and flow.

One size does not fit all. To the OP - there has to be a guild here that does what you're asking. I doubt you're going to have any success getting INNO to change the core DNA and design of GbG as a timed event that does what it does - gosh there are probably 300 pages of discussion and venting about it in 1 topic alone as what to do to fix it. NO ONE CAN AGREE.

While that all resolves, just find a guild (or not) that offers a best fits for how you want to play it. You can't change the DNA of GbG, but you can change how you react to it and find something positive to obtain.

That even extends to doing NO GbG if you stay positive it's the right approach for now. If you get a bug to change your course/interest, then evaluate what group will allow you to scratch your itch the same way they do.

 

[Bosmang]

Reading your post I can only feel like being on the same boat... You've described what I feel with maybe better wording than I used...

 

[Bosmang]

(...) While that all resolves, just find a guild (or not) that offers a best fits for how you want to play it. You can't change the DNA of GbG, but you can change how you react to it and find something positive to obtain.

That even extends to doing NO GbG if you stay positive it's the right approach for now. If you get a bug to change your course/interest, then evaluate what group will allow you to scratch your itch the same way they do.

I agree with you. I've been in my guild since almost when I started playing FoE. Changed guilds only once on my main city server and, like I've told my fellow guildies, I'll only leave when there'll be no one else around to interact in-game with. It's just that, like I've written above, *something* ("GBG", they say)i s ruining the great atmosphere of camaraderie we've been enjoying until lately. And that hurts!

Thank you for your words.

 

[Bosmang]

I was in a big dog guild and one of their top fighters but then they merged with another top guild and are overpowered even when looking at other top guilds, They cleared 25 sectors in less than 20 minutes and had on 59 fighters at the bell the last time I was there. I have since moved in a sister guild and am building it up. Have 23 members but still managed work the whole map with 2 other guilds. I moved down from a top guild , some times the guild can be too powerful to make it enjoyable to be in it.

Yeah. Like I said we used to be the strongest *little guild* in our server. We always did pretty fine between Platinum and Diamond Leagues. By the way things are going we'll soon be the "strongest non-existent little guild".

 

[MJ Artisan of War]

Guilds grow... Guilds die.... Circle of Life....

 

[Angry.Blanket]

What does "little guild " mean ?

 

[Mando Din Djarin]

I am a founder of a “Little Guild” and we have found a way to make the GbG fun and winnable for us almost every other season by keeping ourselves out of the Diamond League altogether. We strategically get our league points toward the bottom up the Platinum League and then go for the win in the following season when our chances are the best!

 

[Dursland]

What does "little guild " mean ?

I'd presume it refers to pretty much any guild not on the first page or two of rankings. Possibly low member count too.

 

[Angry.Blanket]

I'd presume it refers to pretty much any guild not on the first page or two of rankings. Possibly low member count too.

A big GbG guild can be on the 10th page if they don't do GvG.
If we presume low member count, which is what I presume, that is in my opinion the #1 thing wrong with GbG, Low participation.
The less guild members participating the more work the for the ones that do participate. 80 members sharing the load makes it much more bearable, and enjoyable.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

The number pf players is not nearly as important as the other factors:

Little Guild: one that has a hard time having all players doing GE to level 2 let alone 4 !!!
Little Guild ins one where most players do not have a level 80 Arc.
Little Guild is one where they have no1.9 thread for GBs.


Useless Guild can't open levels 2 3 4GE
Useless Guild the Guild leader cannot be found


Big Guild all players can finish GE level 4 in under a hour if needed. (once they're on that day... LOL )
Big Guild dominates GbG
Big Guilds have several (or many) players with over a billion personal points
Big Guilds have one or more players with Arc at level 180

Middle of the road Guilds are everything in between. And this is entirely tongue in cheek, not serious at all

 

[xivarmy]

I don't see how you could change the system to a non-time based one, and still keep it a group game. If it was a "hit anytime you want" it would be set up like PvP Arena Tower - likely not possible to configure it in a way where people can co-operate if everybody is hitting on their own time.

Timing is just part of FoE. Events have it, GvG has it, GBG has it, and even GE starts at 8am on a Tuesday, although you do have all week to finish it.

As for players jumping to a stronger guild, there's not much you can do about it. Happened to me in Dilmun too, had a guild at #1 with very decent roster. Suddenly half a dozen players who were in indy with hovers decide they want their own guild so they can build cheap siege camps.

This hampered us badly in gbg then our remaining top 2 fighters left and the guild disintegrated from there. It's just a fact of FoE that top players will go to top guilds, or form a specific farming guild with everyone in same era to keep siege camp costs low.

It would be a completely different feature, but no a guild competition wouldn't have to be time-based.

A guild-based time-flexible "war" situation would involve each member having a limited number of actions (or alternatively limited effect of their actions - perhaps they can do more if possible but it asymptotically approaches a "maximum potential contribution/reward" limit for that person), and making the most of the "quality" of those actions rather than the "quantity" (as it is now). i.e. "win your fights while taking the least damage for maximum contribution", and then you have to depend on your guildmates doing the same for your guild to make more progress. There's another game I play (and love) that follows this model. It would be hard to fit it into the current model of FoE where you pay for buildings that make you OP, and where the notion of defensive strength is not well fleshed out (and to the extent it exists is largely ignored by the playerbase compared to offensive strength). But it's not impossible conceptually.

GE championship is *kinda* like that, but it doesn't meaningfully measure the quality of participation - i.e. everyone who's serious by now is just expected to be able to hit 64, and tie-breaks based on time as well. Furthermore most of the reward from GE has nothing to do with the championship

----

But there's another time-based feature that has worked well for FoE in the (distant) past in GvG - where the important time is limited to once a day at a time that is quasi-realistic for most of the continental US, with the ability for logistical support outside that one important time. This is also much more sane. Every 4 hours, *is not* sane - (especially because it's not an entirely predictable 4 hour cycle So you don't know you have to get on at 8pm by default say. Rather you might have to get on at 6pm and look at the timers to find out when you next have to be on).

----

Regardless, this is not the game we have - nor will it be the game we have anytime soon.

Big changes in the nature of "endgame" will originate from the development team and what they want, not from player suggestions.

An individual protest on the state of GBG will have no impact - but people quitting it in droves (and it does seem that's the case atm) may - much to the chagrin of those who want their farming factory left alone

All we can do is do our best to find our happy place in the game and ignore the parts that make us unhappy.

 

[Angry.Blanket]

GbG is the only thing keeping me playing, and I hate hate hate farming GbG, it is the live real time battles with another guild that make it fun,
Take away that and we are back to fighting the computer which I have no interest in. Racing another guild for a tile in GbG or trying to break a siege in GvG are the only excitement to FOE.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Another endless thread griping about GbG. The one thing everyone can say is writing about GbG is something plenty of Foe players like to do. LOL Plus it is clear GbG is THE thing in playing Foe. Since it is by far the most discussed part of playing Forge of Empires
My added two cents for the moment is it is not "every four hours**" That scenario exists only if the main two three or four farming Guild act together like clockworks. Or, you are stuck at home and the other two farming Guilds work together like clockwork. There are endless scenarios where one is able to enter GbG and find some active sector within a few minutes because the map is broken up with severalGuilds, or working with a (sadly) slow to play guilds so the timers are utterly messed up . LOL

** it is true that one sector once flipped will take four hours to open. Had to write that or someone will have to write a long essay about every four hours... blah blah blah