DeletedUser14354
I agree its crazy we are still debating this.
-
We are looking for you! Always wanted to join our Supporting Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
Take a look at our recruitement page for more information and how you can apply:
I agree its crazy we are still debating this.
DeletedUser
If it happens on every thread, it's probably not them that not comprehending something.
qaccy
Well-Known Member
It ironically has more to do with people being mentally 'stuck' than being technologically stuck. While we all realize (hopefully) that the easiest goods to acquire are the ones from our own age (and produced by GBs in refined goods eras), some of us just can't make the connection that this fact makes the goods less valuable. People camp in other ages as well, which leads to a huge stockpile of whatever goods they're producing while they camp. Do you think someone sitting in HMA for 2 years places a high value on HMA goods or do you think that's going to have an impact on how they perceive the value? If they happened to need Iron or EMA goods for whatever reason, do you think they'd trade down at 'fair' rates given the supply they have or do you think they'd make the trades more attractive for people picking them up?
To put what I'm trying to say in layman's terms, HMA goods are worth as much to an HMA camper as OF goods are to the people 'stuck' in OF. It doesn't really have a lot to do with the fact that OF is the current end of the tech tree, other than people are only stuck there because it's the end. That's just how the game is. You're too hung up on the 'paper value' of the goods, even though most goods in today's version of FoE are produced via other means which cost nothing. And if goods from two separate ages were both obtained for no production cost...which ones are more valuable? How do we even define 'value'? I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding going on here where both sides of this discussion are essentially talking over each others' heads and completely missing each other with their points.
DeletedUser29218
That's an interesting point of view. When a quest asks me to donate goods to treasury or I'm negotiating GE I always prioritise my age -1, but my instinct is to give from my age, as I have over 8k of each good as a byproduct of RQs. And, in my case trades are actually taken; it's simply the annoyance of having to post them.
I think it has more to do about goods being produced by other, cheaper means than anything else.
DeletedUser33043
I am understanding that yes, I will most likely have to convince myself that since I'm stuck in the top age, that I will have to trade these goods at lower and less advantageous ratios than in previous non- final era goods trading. And yes, I have a plethora of these goods. But just because I have a lot of them, they aren't any less valuable to me. Less valuable in the game, yes: but what is the motivation to work so hard to get to this era? Doesn't that count for something? Shouldn't there be another incentive for players to reach the OE or have OE goods other than being able to build a GB like the Kracken or move through the tech tree? For map quests, I still need other era goods to complete peacefully, and I find it difficult to even trade for these goods since all I have are OE and tomorrow era goods and fighting a market that is saturated with these goods and forced to trade at rediculous ratios to make ends meet. This is frustrating. I hope I am making sense to the people in this thread, so we can agree that this is a problem and possibly discover solutions. The only one I can think of is keep inventing more eras, rather than have these huge eras that have five parts to them and take forever and a day to get through. Again, I vote for opening a VOLCANIC ERA next and make them shorter eras (1-2 parts) like the rest of the game. Thank you for taking the time to read through this. BJC out.
DeletedUser
There is a solution already available, but you won't like it. It's the one I've been planning on using myself since long before this topic was raised. And that is to revamp your friends list and/or find a young guild. Then become the trademaster for that guild. With younger (game age) players, you can trade all those OFE/Tomorrow goods for lower era goods at a great rate for those young players, and build your stock of goods from all ages to the point where you can meet any trade needs they have. While you're doing this, you can help them level up all their GBs with the tons of FP you probably produce. To me, that's the only real appeal to getting to the end era, turning around and helping a bunch of newer players. How cool would that be!
DeletedUser33043
I agree that would be cool, although I personally don't want to get that involved with the game but I do support my lower age guild members who wish to acquire OE and Tomorrow goods through me. Most are not too interested however, more interested in goods nearer their age.
DeletedUser31498
As far as perceived value and what a higher age **should** go for, sure I'll agree. But OPs point is that this isn't a market-dictated value, since the game is artificially creating a massive supply of Tomorrow and Oceanic goods.
And here is where you really prove my point:
The HMA Camper has the option to advance and acquire higher age goods, which are considered more valuable. The time LMA trades 1:1 with HMA is the time you're right. If a hueg % of the players chose to camp in HMA, and hence HMA goods were devalued, you'd have a point.
"It doesn't really have a lot to do with the fact that OF is the current end of the tech tree, other than people are only stuck there because it's the end. That's just how the game is."
You say it almost in passing that people are stuck and that's just how the game is, without realizing that's the entire point of OP's post haha. I'm not hung up on the"paper" value of the goods by any means, but it takes a lotttttt of time/resources to advance an Era, and INNO certainly intends for each Era to be more "valuable" than the next?
@Big joe chief I'm curious, to get a trade from oceanic to Arctic or Future, what rate would you have to offer?
DeletedUser
To borrow a phrase, that is patently wrong. The players are creating the massive supply by how they are playing the game. The real problem here is a player at the end of the game (for now) expecting the dynamics to be the same as they were on the way to that end. But they're not. Many end game players have stated that FP are much more valuable than goods at that stage. Why do you think it became so commonplace to buy high era goods with FPs? Because the end game players that get it shift their focus from amassing goods to leveling up GBs. Players that don't get it keep producing masses of goods with no plan for them, then wonder why they're not valuable. This is the very definition of market-determined value.
DeletedUser33043
Much lower than I enjoy. Sometimes even the ratio doesn't entice people b/c they have the goods already. I have been somewhat successful at 1.66:2-1.75:2.
DeletedUser31498
Wow good point Stephen!!! All those Oceanic players keep amassing Tomorrow Era Goods because they still have Tomorrow Era Goods building pumping out those Tomorrow Era refined goods using Modern Era Goods buildings, which are helped by his Colonial Era goods buildngs, right? Oh my gosh this whole time I thought the end of tech players had high level GBs that spit out 2x unrefined tomorrow goods for free, but I was wrong!
@Big joe chief Stephen found the solution!!! Just delete your Colonial Era goods buildings that you were using to produce Modern Era goods, then delete your Modern Era goods buildings you were using to create Tomorrow Era goods, and then you can delete your Tomorrow Era goods buildings, and finally your Oceanic!!!
Stephen you've done it!!! Lol how can you proclaim to have any advanced knowledge of FOE and not understand these players are amassing tons of goods simply by existing?
Last edited by a moderator:
qaccy
Well-Known Member
@gutmeister Something else to consider is that, along with the fact that any goods can be traded among players regardless of the age of either, producing better goods is not the only reason to advance in age. Unlike goods, troops and buildings cannot be traded, so the only way to acquire them is by advancing in age. And since this is a multi-faceted game regardless of playstyle, these two significant factors cannot be ignored as part of the bigger picture.
An LMA camper will trade 1:1 and probably even up to 2:1 with any HMA player because they're going to have the stock to do so. Shifting the age upwards by one doesn't invalidate the point I was making, because you're making essentially the exact same point: Someone with a surplus of goods is most likely going to trade at 'devalued' rates because they simply have more than enough stock to do so, regardless of what their ideal 'value' might be. This applies to ALL ages.
Think of it like this, if it makes it easier: Everyone who's in OF is effectively camping in OF. Functionally speaking, this is no different at all from camping in any other age, and yes, there are players who've camped and are currently camping in other ages (that aren't at the end of the tech tree) for LONGER than OF has been available. So from that angle, why's it 'wrong' for OF goods to be allegedly 'devalued'? That's just what happens when you camp, but that also doesn't mean there's a problem. Just like the HMA camper who'll trade at whatever ratio allows them to acquire the goods they might need regardless of what HMA goods are normally worth, OF players can do the same. It sounds to me like you're still hung up on your belief that goods should always have a 'minimum' value regardless of how many someone has, but that's just not how it works. In fact, I'll suggest that you may even have it backwards.
Here's a possibility: The 'problem' isn't that OF goods are 'devalued', it's more that the lower-age goods that they might want to trade for are in too short a supply. Let's go hypothetical here. If you completely zeroed out the entire game's inventory of OF goods right now, do you think that would have an impact on being able to trade for AF or FE goods? I personally do not. Here's a fact: When you aren't getting them for free from buildings like the Oasis or Terrace Farm or quests, refined goods are pretty annoying to produce. You now need up to four different goods buildings in order to maintain supply to keep producing a single type of refined good. Only three in the case of AF and FE, but that's still a huge expenditure of both space and population for each 'set' of buildings you want to run, but if you're above the age of the goods you want it's your only other option besides trading for them. Most players do not go the production route, leading to a shortage in supply once they leave the age where they're able to receive large quantities of the goods without actually producing them. I posit that the 'problem' here isn't OF goods being too common and not very valuable, but that there aren't enough AF or FE goods and that players should start producing more of those themselves rather than trying to trade in an increasingly-shrinking market.
An LMA camper will trade 1:1 and probably even up to 2:1 with any HMA player because they're going to have the stock to do so. Shifting the age upwards by one doesn't invalidate the point I was making, because you're making essentially the exact same point: Someone with a surplus of goods is most likely going to trade at 'devalued' rates because they simply have more than enough stock to do so, regardless of what their ideal 'value' might be. This applies to ALL ages.
Think of it like this, if it makes it easier: Everyone who's in OF is effectively camping in OF. Functionally speaking, this is no different at all from camping in any other age, and yes, there are players who've camped and are currently camping in other ages (that aren't at the end of the tech tree) for LONGER than OF has been available. So from that angle, why's it 'wrong' for OF goods to be allegedly 'devalued'? That's just what happens when you camp, but that also doesn't mean there's a problem. Just like the HMA camper who'll trade at whatever ratio allows them to acquire the goods they might need regardless of what HMA goods are normally worth, OF players can do the same. It sounds to me like you're still hung up on your belief that goods should always have a 'minimum' value regardless of how many someone has, but that's just not how it works. In fact, I'll suggest that you may even have it backwards.
Here's a possibility: The 'problem' isn't that OF goods are 'devalued', it's more that the lower-age goods that they might want to trade for are in too short a supply. Let's go hypothetical here. If you completely zeroed out the entire game's inventory of OF goods right now, do you think that would have an impact on being able to trade for AF or FE goods? I personally do not. Here's a fact: When you aren't getting them for free from buildings like the Oasis or Terrace Farm or quests, refined goods are pretty annoying to produce. You now need up to four different goods buildings in order to maintain supply to keep producing a single type of refined good. Only three in the case of AF and FE, but that's still a huge expenditure of both space and population for each 'set' of buildings you want to run, but if you're above the age of the goods you want it's your only other option besides trading for them. Most players do not go the production route, leading to a shortage in supply once they leave the age where they're able to receive large quantities of the goods without actually producing them. I posit that the 'problem' here isn't OF goods being too common and not very valuable, but that there aren't enough AF or FE goods and that players should start producing more of those themselves rather than trying to trade in an increasingly-shrinking market.
DeletedUser31498
Please stop writing things like this: "Think of it like this, if it makes it easier:" I assure you, even though everyone on the internet thinks they're smarter than they are, I'm a very good strategic thinker.
And "camping" on OF is immensely different from choosing to camp in any other age. Yes, they chose to GET to OF, but once there, there's no going back. If you honestly can't comprehend how having one's GBs locked to a certain age with no ability to alter them isn't different from camping in other ages then let's just agree to disagree? Your HMA example is silly bc if this problem existed, it would be the players' choice to persist in HMA instead of advancing. Surely you must acknowledge that's a pretty big difference? If they had HMA Part 2,3,4,5, etc, and no LMA, the HMA campers would be upset I imagine.
If one were allowed to choose a lower age than the GB currently produces I would 100% agree with you. But I really think you're dismissing the GB lock as inconsequential that you fail to grasp why this is a problem.
DeletedUser
I'm pretty sure the original post refers to Oceanic Future Goods...oh, wait, it's even in the thread title! So, way to focus on another red herring. It's to the point where you aren't even mildly amusing any more.
DeletedUser
Yeah, we got that when you agreed with tucker. LOL
DeletedUser31440
Tucker is by far the most strategic thinker on these forums, don't you dare blaspheme against him and his perfect strategies!!!
DeletedUser31498
Are you getting paid by someone for every post you write "red herring"? This is seriously getting out of control.
It's like in clueless when that red-haired lady learned the word "sporadically." I'm glad you're still learning new words though.
Here ya go, Stephen, I copied OP's original post for you:
I tend to read everything that's written, so arguing with you is tough when you either can't focus enough to read or have problems understanding words that aren't red herrings.
Man I can't wait how you spin your lack of comprehension back onto my redness or my herringness..good luck!
DeletedUser
Good. Here's the thread title:
"Oceanic era goods devalued
Discussion in 'Forge Hall' started by Big joe chief, Sunday at 1:18 AM."
Now, you were saying?
DeletedUser33043
Alright...I really didn't intend the original post to snowball into a controversy amongst players. I simply wanted to find out if other players were experiencing this difficulty and perhaps working together to posit a n idea to the development team for this game to continue to be fun. I am locked into only being able to produce OE and Tomorrow goods, from my factories and gbs respectively. I need future and contemp era goods to advance in the game and can't find or make trades for them. OE lasts forever and to unlock the tech for this era, it requires alot of Arctic era goods, which I am finding hard to get.
Volodya
Well-Known Member
Um... OK, of course there's nothing you can do about the goods produced by your GBs. Is there a reason though why you still have OE and TE goods buildings, churning out never-ending streams of stuff you don't need? Why don't you simply delete those buildings and build buildings to produce FE and CE goods that you actually do need? Or, you could bite the bullet and trade your glut of Oceanic goods at a rate the market will accept. If that turns out to be 2:1 Oceanic for Tomorrow, so be it. How does that hurt anything other than--I guess--your pride?