Question or complaint? Why does negotiating in frontier not trigger diplomatic gift

[Tharkunn]

Fighting in frontier gives the spoils reward. How come negotiating in the frontier does not give the diplomatic gift.
In my opinion it should.
yes yes yes

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

What is the "frontier"? Do you mean the Continent Map? If so, the "negotiating" there isn't really negotiating, it's pretty much just straight up buying with goods. If you don't mean the C-Map, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Tharkunn]

What is the "frontier"? Do you mean the Continent Map? If so, the "negotiating" there isn't really negotiating, it's pretty much just straight up buying with goods. If you don't mean the C-Map, then I don't know what to tell you.

It is called negotiating - you negotiate for the sector. and let us be honest. Inno calls the guessing game we play negotiating but it is not negotiating it is a game of guess what 5 predetermined goods are in front of the 5 people. There is no negotiating. They call it negotiating so it can be juxtaposed with fighting. Just like they call it negotiating on the 'continent map' so it is juxtaposed with fighting. The negotiation on in the frontier seems like more of a negotiation to me then the guessing game in GE or gbg. It is just that the negotiation for how much to pay is done just need to pay the amount the other person is asking.

 

[Nice2HaveU]

It is called negotiating - you negotiate for the sector. and let us be honest. Inno calls the guessing game we play negotiating but it is not negotiating it is a game of guess what 5 predetermined goods are in front of the 5 people. There is no negotiating. They call it negotiating so it can be juxtaposed with fighting. Just like they call it negotiating on the 'continent map' so it is juxtaposed with fighting. The negotiation on in the frontier seems like more of a negotiation to me then the guessing game in GE or gbg. It is just that the negotiation for how much to pay is done just need to pay the amount the other person is asking.

"Negotiation combination games", but continent map is straight a way negotiating with goods, there is no combination games on it.

To avoid confusion, changing the word "negotiate" to "trade" might solve the problem. But, it is not that much of problem to get clarify within guild mates or friends.

 

[Xenosaur]

John's correct. It was originally called negotiating, and still is - but it isn't rewarded the same (or at all) in all ways it seems to work.

When Inno crafted a dual strategy to answer the needs of players that didn't want to fight in the game but play new venues (GE and GbG), they also called that negotiating (such as in GbG), gave it a value proposition (2 advancements to a true fight's 1...) and then differentiated THAT type of event challenge as supported via an SC, while other things historically called negotiations were not included.

In particular, the Continent MAP was never included in SC reward system for good reasons: ON the C-Map - you buy the sector with goods, or you don't. I guess they needed a good term for that function in the original game, and no one cared if they called it "negotiations" - it wasn't fighting for sure.

But also for a while Japanese settlements did allow Merchant negotiations to work with the SC too, but that was re-evaluated and then turned off.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It is called negotiating - you negotiate for the sector. and let us be honest. Inno calls the guessing game we play negotiating but it is not negotiating it is a game of guess what 5 predetermined goods are in front of the 5 people. There is no negotiating.

Sure it's negotiating. Negotiating is offering something in exchange for something, then adjusting your offer (if unsuccessful) to try to meet what the other person wants in exchange for the thing you're desiring from them. The only difference here is that you don't get to keep the "something" you offer in unsuccessful attempts. (Historically, this could easily happen. More primitive peoples would keep what was offered, then ask/demand more.)

 

[Tharkunn]

I must remember in game forums there are always people who will support and argue what ever the games current status is. No matter how illogical.
The current 'negotiation' in GE and gbg resembles a negotiation in name only. It is a guessing game not a negotiation.
What transpires out in the frontier is also styled a negotiation and in fact does match a negotiation in so much as the leader of the sector you want is willing to fight you to keep you out or negotiate for goods to allow you access to the sector. To say it is not a negotiation just because he is firm with what he is willing to accept in the way of goods does not mean it is not a negotiation. His/her position is you want access to this tile, Fight me for it, or pay these goods as a way to negotiate for it.

I would also point out that as HC works when you 'fight' SC should work when you negotiate.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

I must remember in game forums there are always people who will support and argue what ever the games current status is. No matter how illogical.

Must be thinking of yourself here, because your definition of negotiation is at odds with the real world definition.

The current 'negotiation' in GE and gbg resembles a negotiation in name only. It is a guessing game not a negotiation.

Unless you have done extensive research on the wants/needs of the person you're bartering with, every negotiation (real world or not) is by definition a guessing game. As I said before, the only way these negotiations differ from most real world negotiations is that the goods you offer are gone whether they're accepted or not.

What transpires out in the frontier is also styled a negotiation and in fact does match a negotiation in so much as the leader of the sector you want is willing to fight you to keep you out or negotiate for goods to allow you access to the sector. To say it is not a negotiation just because he is firm with what he is willing to accept in the way of goods does not mean it is not a negotiation. His/her position is you want access to this tile, Fight me for it, or pay these goods as a way to negotiate for it.

That is not a negotiation. It is a choice of buying at a set price or taking by force. Here, let me help you:
Negotiate. "1. to deal or bargain with another or others, as in the preparation of a treaty or contract or in preliminaries to a business deal. transitive verb. 2. to arrange for or bring about by discussion and settlement of terms."
There's no dealing or bargaining on the C-Map (frontier), there is in GE and GBG. Hence, GE and GBG are negotiations by definition, and the C-Map is not, also by definition.

I would also point out that as HC works when you 'fight' SC should work when you negotiate.

Sorry, but each GB has its own set of rules it operates by. For example, the Zeus only applies to attacking armies and Terracotta Army applies to both attacking and defending armies. The logic of one cannot be applied to another.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

The Continetal Map goods transactions are bartering, where the barter cost is predetermined by the seller.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

The Continetal Map goods transactions are bartering, where the barter cost is predetermined by the seller.

Not to split hairs but the Space Age exploration sites on the C-Map can be collected by either fighting or negotiating (and these "negotiation games" do count for SC charges and the Castle System).

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Not to split hairs but the Space Age exploration sites on the C-Map can be collected by either fighting or negotiating (and these "negotiation games" do count for SC charges and the Castle System).

And they should be, because they are actual negotiations just like in GE and GBG, and not like the "negotiations" on the rest of the C-Map.

 

[Mor-Rioghain]

The nuts and bolts of it were summed up in an earlier forum post by someone: think of the negotiation fees on the campaign map as as something like a tariff charge. I cannot remember which member stated that but it's about as accurate a statement as I've ever heard of the distinction between the two.

 

[Emberguard]

The reason is simple: the Space Carrier is only intended for the mini-game.

The continent map shares the same name, but is not the mini-game and therefore doesn't count.

 

[Henrik the Seer]

The better term for giving goods to gain control of a sector in the Continental Maps would be "foreign aid," and this would end the confusion for that issue. The term "produce" also is used for supplies and goods, and also is a source of confusion. If produce was limited to supplies, and "obtain" was used for goods, maybe that would solve that as well. Of course, there are so many examples of these double meanings that have been embedded in the game, I doubt that this will ever be cleared up, and I don't expect that it ever will be.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

The better term for giving goods to gain control of a sector in the Continental Maps would be "foreign aid," and this would end the confusion for that issue. The term "produce" also is used for supplies and goods, and also is a source of confusion. If produce was limited to supplies, and "obtain" was used for goods, maybe that would solve that as well. Of course, there are so many examples of these double meanings that have been embedded in the game, I doubt that this will ever be cleared up, and I don't expect that it ever will be.

I don't think any confusion is caused by the terms you mention. It is always pretty clear what a quest/task calls for if you take the time to read it. The term in question in this thread is an example. If you read the GBs description on the FoE Wiki, it clearly says "negotiation combination games", which cannot possibly be understood to mean simply paying a set amount. This is what happens when society starts playing fast and loose with word meanings. Pretty soon people are so confused that they can't interpret clear statements anymore.

 

[The Lady Redneck]

Pretty soon people are so confused that they can't interpret clear statements anymore.

And I am still confused (Me blonde), The OP is referring to the "Frontier" but to my knowledge I have never heard of a part of the game called the "frontier". Where is it? What is it? I would far rather fight in it than negotiate (no matter what the negotiations are called or do) Or if it is an existing part of the game, why not call it by its normal name?

Mind you....... A "Frontier" would make a great new battle entry option for each Era. As you would need to conquer whatever challenged you faced when you first moved in, before being able to start controlling the rest of the new lands.

 

[Ironrooster]

The better term for giving goods to gain control of a sector in the Continental Maps would be "foreign aid," and this would end the confusion for that issue. The term "produce" also is used for supplies and goods, and also is a source of confusion. If produce was limited to supplies, and "obtain" was used for goods, maybe that would solve that as well. Of course, there are so many examples of these double meanings that have been embedded in the game, I doubt that this will ever be cleared up, and I don't expect that it ever will be.

A better description for it might be buying the sector. It has a fixed price - accept it, otherwise fight for it.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

And I am still confused (Me blonde), The OP is referring to the "Frontier" but to my knowledge I have never heard of a part of the game called the "frontier". Where is it? What is it? I would far rather fight in it than negotiate (no matter what the negotiations are called or do) Or if it is an existing part of the game, why not call it by its normal name?

Mind you....... A "Frontier" would make a great new battle entry option for each Era. As you would need to conquer whatever challenged you when you first moved in, before being able to start controlling the rest of the new lands.

He's talking about the C-Map. I corrected him, but he refuses to use the proper name for it. Which partially explains why he doesn't understand the difference between true negotiations and outright purchases that are unfortunately also called "negotiations".