Rigging the GBG battlefield for AI defence?

[Lorendar]

I've noticed recently that the positioning of troops on my attacking side are being set up to give an advantage to the AI defending troops. Before, my rogues ALWAYS were placed in the center of the formation and any real units on the outside. Now, I'm seeing that they are being placed where the AI has a better opportunity to hit real units based on VS. unit type. Kind of dirty play, don't you think, especially since you haven't given any heads up on it.

 

[Dursland]

I've noticed this too in GE5, real troops start in middle of lineup now instead of at the ends like before.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I've noticed this too in GE5, real troops start in middle of lineup now instead of at the ends like before.

In my Titan city I use 2 Drones with 6 Rogues in GE L5. Drones always started on the flanks. In my Indy city I use 2 Turturrets with 6 Rogues in L5. The Turts always started on the flanks. I'll do a few manual battles in GBG to see what happens there.

EDIT. I did 5 2-wave battles in GBG using 2 regular units with 6 rogues. In each instance the regular units started on the flanks with rogues in the center.

 

[xivarmy]

I have seen this happen before going a long ways back. I'm not entirely sure what causes it, but I believe it might have something to do with some sort of unit identifier seed.

I agree that the "normal" situation (on the player's side) is real units being filled in on the outside of rogues in the middle. But I have seen the opposite happen before.

On the AI's side there is no rules on the arrangement (rather the arrangement is part of the configuration of the fight than something that happens automagically - so that for instance in GE you have waves with the 4 artillery in the middle, 4 artillery on the top, and 4 artillery on the bottom).

 

[xivarmy]

Incidentally, my indy city just went through a streak of rogues-on-the-outside and when I went to start another fight to take a pic it switched to rogues-on-the-inside.

It does not appear to be random (because the order tends to be preserved between consecutive fights) until you change the units in your army.

And as I'm typing this and went to look for some sort of consistency as to what determines when it changes, i swapped out an injured turturret for a rogue and got a really funky order, somehow.



So my best guess now is that has something to do with the order you add your units to your army.

 

[xivarmy]

1) Cleared Army, added 6 Recon Raiders, then 2 Rogues:



2) Cleared Army, added 2 Rogue, then 6 Recon Raiders:

 

[xivarmy]

Summary:



Note that this is based on the order you add the units to the army, not the sort order inside the army window. i.e. when I do the same army as above, but added in reverse order, the placement is also inverted.



Note that this only holds if you completely empty and add a new army. Weird things can happen when you sub out a single unit (maybe it takes the place of the previously vacated spot by the unit you subbed out instead of becoming the new 8).

 

[Emberguard]

So my best guess now is that has something to do with the order you add your units to your army.

Any chance stacking units being active might change things?

 

[xivarmy]

Any chance stacking units being active might change things?

I just repeated my experiment from post #8 with stacking units off (i keep it active normally). Same result. Any impact it has is likely due to changing player behavior based on what's most convenient to them (it was more of a pain to setup the army the same way).

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I can't replicate it with SAT units. 2 regular with 6 rogues. 4 same type regular with 4 rogues. 4 regular, two types, with 4 rogues. I completely cleared the lineup and added the units in different orders. The rogues are still in the center each time. Oh well.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

It may be related to specific troops? Era troops, or enemy troops also?
It is really hard to pin down some things.

 

[xivarmy]

I can't replicate it with SAT units. 2 regular with 6 rogues. 4 same type regular with 4 rogues. 4 regular, two types, with 4 rogues. I completely cleared the lineup and added the units in different orders. The rogues are still in the center each time. Oh well.

Retrying the test on my SAT world with permafrost drones and rogues does seem to result in rogues on the inside no matter which order i add them.

Retrying the test on my SAT world with OF units against SAT units also appears not to have worked.

I have no idea what the difference is that causes this.

The successful test on my indy world that had me in control of the placement was in GBG. my SAT tests were at first on ore deposits but i retried on GBG as well with the same result (rogues always in the middle)

 

[xivarmy]

Retests with the indy units in indy GBG instead of above-era units in case that was the difference still are demonstrating the same behavior for me. (Units being in position determined by how I add them to the army, formulaicly).

I'll go test some other worlds/eras.

 

[xivarmy]

My SAM world demonstrates the reliable positioning behavior based on order of selection (SAM units vs SAM units, GBG).
My OF world also appears to match my original hypothesis (OF units vs OF units, GBG).

Going back to my SAT world, GvG testing in case defending SAT units have something to do with it, that too failed - static positioning regardless of how i add my army. Though I did find it was rogues on the outside in indy for me there and on the inside in FE (but nothing i could do in either case to invert it).

So there seems to be a hidden factor involved of some sort that makes my SAT world behave differently from the other 3 I've tested now. (could be an A/B test?)

 

[xivarmy]

Found another world with the out-of-my-control positioning behavior. So far other than "maybe it's an A/B" test, the difference between the worlds has been how long they've been open (or possibly how long I've been on them). My Brisgard and Langendorn cities have positioning I cannot seem to influence. My Yorkton, Carthage, and Dilmun cities have positioning I can reliably influence.

Edit: Can now confirm age of world has nothing to do with it - I have no control on Birka (newer than yorkton, been on since it started, but not actively) or Noarsil (only joined recently, also not been active).

 

[85gt]

I have seen that my troops will not move forward and take the 1st shot, they hold back to get hit, my fast units move forward only 4 spaces and wait to get hit, its all Inno --. Hurry and buy diamonds to get these powerfull attack buildings to help your troops do nothing.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I have seen that my troops will not move forward and take the 1st shot, they hold back to get hit, my fast units move forward only 4 spaces and wait to get hit, its all Inno --. Hurry and buy diamonds to get these powerfull attack buildings to help your troops do nothing.

Maybe INNO is testing something? I just did about 30 manual battles in GBG using Gliders against SAT defenders. I tried 8 Gliders and mixes of Gliders with Drones. In every instance, if the defending army included Drones, the enemy drones moved first (in which case my Rogues got hit and the Gliders did not advance very far - which is a good thing). If the enemy army did not include Drones my Gliders fully advanced every time (which is usually a bad thing unless using 8 Gliders). This is the same troop behavior that I have been used to. If you're seeing something different, then INNO must be tryuing something new on select players.

 

[Athanofthered]

Maybe INNO is testing something? I just did about 30 manual battles in GBG using Gliders against SAT defenders. I tried 8 Gliders and mixes of Gliders with Drones. In every instance, if the defending army included Drones, the enemy drones moved first (in which case my Rogues got hit and the Gliders did not advance very far - which is a good thing). If the enemy army did not include Drones my Gliders fully advanced every time (which is usually a bad thing unless using 8 Gliders). This is the same troop behavior that I have been used to. If you're seeing something different, then INNO must be tryuing something new on select players.

I've noticed a like oddity my permafrost drones have six range when idle but during battle they have four it's very weird wonder if it's a glitch or something.

 

[xivarmy]

I've noticed a like oddity my permafrost drones have six range when idle but during battle they have four it's very weird wonder if it's a glitch or something.

No, that's true of every unit with 1 PE+ or more unit on the battlefield (1.5x battlefield scaling shrinks their movement and range stats by 1.5x so 6 range becomes 4, 30 movement becomes 20)

 

[Athanofthered]

No, that's true of every unit with 1 PE+ or more unit on the battlefield (1.5x battlefield scaling shrinks their movement and range stats by 1.5x so 6 range becomes 4, 30 movement becomes 20)

Why is this though?