SAT Units need to be adjusted

[Ebeondi Asi]

3000 boost is not enough for Titan. I would say to get what you usde to have in SAJM you might want / need 3700 to 4000 boost.

 

[honey55]

3000 boost is not enough for Titan. I would say to get what you usde to have in SAJM you might want / need 3700 to 4000 boost.

What was i thinking. One probably needs 4000 boosts actually. Of course one also.needs lots of blue boosts too. Why make event buildings over the top unless one is going to make it take so much higher boosts. Too bad it only affects those in Titan. Meanwhile, those in lower ages can go higher and higher attrition while those in Titan take over a year to accumulate enough buildings to get their boosts high enough to make a difference. Like i said, we're pretty much wounded, with a long recovery time unless we can afford some really expensive specialists.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I'm looking at this objectively. The primary weakness of Titan units is that hitting high attrition (i.e that in SAJM) is not possible without adding a lot of red boosts (perhaps 1000 extra % is a good number, who knows). At low attrition the Titan units have to be swapped out more frequently, slowing down play. I'm thinking that, until GBG gets changed to prevent zero attrition, without adding any boosts, I will miss out on the battles at the upper boundary of my attrition (most of which happen at the end of my day on sectors with little, or no, SC protection). This amounts to 10-20 battles. Added to that, the slow down in play will cost some number of battles but I don't have data to know how many this will be, perhaps 40-50 daily. I anticipate an increase in lost units but a few more levels on the Traz will handle this. So, net net, I'm probably looking at a reduction of 60-70 daily battles unless I increase red boosts (roughly 10% of my average total). This is not enough for me to get worked up over.

 

[Xenosaur]

Point to consider: These BLACK flask boosts (100/200/300) %? You think they're gravy and you're going to kick butt with them - especially after the anemic values of the 10/20 % attack boost for 8 hours that served us for years...

Inno, by an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE, blast the percentage much higher like that? Ask yourself why that HUGE perceived (actual?) jump in boost power.

They're NOT gravy. In conjunction with AI changes, these black flasks are part of the new fighting paradigm. Carefully released before Titan went live, you'll have to start using them as part of your daily fighting ritual, especially since you're all "sort of" reporting that Titan's native soldiers are not as strong as you'd like (or conversely, the defense is stronger than you'd like).
Black flasks are going to be essential (maybe to stay EVEN to where you were in SAJM...), even with years of native attack% accrual under your belt.

 

[honey55]

I'm looking at this objectively. The primary weakness of Titan units is that hitting high attrition (i.e that in SAJM) is not possible without adding a lot of red boosts (perhaps 1000 extra % is a good number, who knows). At low attrition the Titan units have to be swapped out more frequently, slowing down play. I'm thinking that, until GBG gets changed to prevent zero attrition, without adding any boosts, I will miss out on the battles at the upper boundary of my attrition (most of which happen at the end of my day on sectors with little, or no, SC protection). This amounts to 10-20 battles. Added to that, the slow down in play will cost some number of battles but I don't have data to know how many this will be, perhaps 40-50 daily. I anticipate an increase in lost units but a few more levels on the Traz will handle this. So, net net, I'm probably looking at a reduction of 60-70 daily battles unless I increase red boosts (roughly 10% of my average total). This is not enough for me to get worked up over.

Its not the number of battles alone, though because if needing goods, it does factor in. It's the fact that constantly swapping units is not at all fun, at least on mobile, and i don't have internet.

 

[xivarmy]

Its not the number of battles alone, though because if needing goods, it does factor in. It's the fact that constantly swapping units is not at all fun, at least on mobile, and i don't have internet.

Fixing the troop swapping interface on mobile should indeed be a priority. (so that you can tap in and out instead of having to swipe)

 

[Xenosaur]

Its not the number of battles alone, though because if needing goods, it does factor in. It's the fact that constantly swapping units is not at all fun, at least on mobile, and i don't have internet.

Yes, very true. To get the best fighting ability, ALL UNITS must be fresh, ALL THE TIME. The AI is no slouch anymore, and your warrior health determines how hard you can hit back, and how much that unit becomes (or is...) a target for the defense.
If any are chipped (injured) with even 1 red block of injury, they get pummeled initially and with a higher probability by the defense. 1 + 7 rogue configuration certainly have given way to 2 + 6, for that reason. You need a backup in case that 1 gets lost and creates a full fight failure.

I am constantly swapping out micro-damaged warriors, so that I have fresh ones each time. This isn't as demanding when attritiion is lower, or you're fighting in easier GE difficulty levels, but once you start seeing deep cuts on your warriors (2/3/4 or more red squares of injury, each - out of their 10), it's time to remove that for a fresh copy. It gets to the point when attrition gets higher, or GE level 4/5 that you consider or actually reset the warriors EACH time before a new battle.

Moving around the warrior wells, and age dropdowns in ARMY management for MOBILE requires lots of touches, swipes and yes, time to reset your army so you can fight again. You may click autobattle, which is fast, but resetting up the warriors incessantly each round, is ergonomically taxing.

 

[85gt]

The troops are total CARP, its the AI killing them big time, the fast units are 1 sector short so they take hits, The Ranged unit has the distance but They don`t go forward far enough to shoot, they hold back and get shot at, Inno has turned the screws to us, game has become garbage due to greed

 

[85gt]

3000 boost is not enough for Titan. I would say to get what you usde to have in SAJM you might want / need 3700 to 4000 boost.

That is not close to enough, you have no idea. Do your battles manual then hit finish battle automatically and watch what they did to us. with a 300% bottle and over 3700 Att (total over 4000) and over 2700 Def it is not enough, you need more Def than attack because They have it fixed to where you "will take hits"

 

[qaccy]

The funny thing I've realized here is that we all forgot that, for how bad the SAT units supposedly are, they seem to be doing a fine job in battle against us. I mean, if the units were bad, you wouldn't have to be changing them out so much/taking so many losses in places like GBG, would you? So really it's just that SAT's mirror matches end up being more difficult than in SAJM, but I propose that's mainly because SAJM has a unit with Contact! You guys were mostly using Harpoons (with Rogues) in SAJM battles, right? Unless SAT had a unit with Contact! for you to be propped up by, it was always going to be 'worse' than SAJM because of how dumb the AI is against Rogues and how well Contact! pairs with them.

But anyway, to get back to my main point, so what if SAT is 'harder' than SAJM? Not every age has been 'better' than the one prior to it. How would you even set it up to ensure that each age is able to achieve the 'goal' of winning more and more battles in a place like GBG with the same or less relative difficulty? How do you design units that are strong enough to easily win battles, but are also weak enough to easily defeat, and to continually widen that gap with each age increase? Those first two goals seem fundamentally opposed to each other, and the addition of the third seemingly making it impossible.

 

[Rhae 911]

The troops are total CARP, its the AI killing them big time, the fast units are 1 sector short so they take hits, The Ranged unit has the distance but They don`t go forward far enough to shoot, they hold back and get shot at, Inno has turned the screws to us, game has become garbage due to greed

Absolutely correct ! Do not move to Titan , stay at Jupiter and dominate. The game is now having to focus on get the players to spend money asap.
more of the focus is on new players to spend money early, rather than the veteran players enjoying dominating the top of the mountain.

 

[honey55]

Absolutely correct ! Do not move to Titan , stay at Jupiter and dominate. The game is now having to focus on get the players to spend money asap.
more of the focus is on new players to spend money early, rather than the veteran players enjoying dominating the top of the mountain.

I don't think the veterans dominate all the time. I have been in lots of guilds and many times the player dominating gbg is a low age like progressive. They started playing after the strategy was discovered of staying in lower ages. I have seen it plenty on chat, the recommendation to not move up. It should be better to move up but this game does not reward one for moving up. They actually do just the opposite. Makes sense from a business point of view. Wouldn't it be wonderful not to have to turn out any new ages.

 

[Rhae 911]

3000 boost is not enough for Titan. I would say to get what you usde to have in SAJM you might want / need 3700 to 4000 boost.

Unfortunately Inno has ruined this game for the higher players . Not worth it anymore

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Unfortunately Inno has ruined this game for the higher players . Not worth it anymore

Sorry, I'm one of the "higher players" and don't think that INNO has ruined the game for me. Sure, I can no longer do a few dozen auto-battles in GBG before needing to refresh units, yet. But, for every SAT player that is getting slowed down there is a lower age player reaping the benefit because the total number of fights per sector remains the same. The balance of GBG "wealth" has shifted. Not really a bad thing in my opinion.

 

[honey55]

Sorry, I'm one of the "higher players" and don't think that INNO has ruined the game for me. Sure, I can no longer do a few dozen auto-battles in GBG before needing to refresh units, yet. But, for every SAT player that is getting slowed down there is a lower age player reaping the benefit because the total number of fights per sector remains the same. The balance of GBG "wealth" has shifted. Not really a bad thing in my opinion.

What a joke. The ones mostly reaping the benefit are the ones on all day and mostly lower ages that have been getting thousands more fights all along, the top 5 or so.

 

[xivarmy]

What a joke. The ones mostly reaping the benefit are the ones on all day and mostly lower ages that have been getting thousands more fights all along, the top 5 or so.

The very fact that you're arguing over which guildmate deserves the most fights in farming grounds illustrates the problem with GBG as it stands

It shouldn't be a competition between guildmates over who gets the bigger portion of the allotted farm from some BS coop agreement. It should be a competition between guilds!

It should be celebrated that your lower age players are so efficient as it helps the guild in competitive situations.
It should also be celebrated that you have some players in Titan to help get others the new GBs, because there's going to be a limit of goods available on the open market. Even if they aren't as fast as some lower age players.

One bright side to the recent power creep: GBG-clicker is getting less important. I expect you can make close to a 5000 FP a day collection city with the new building efficiencies and higher era space. This is equivalent to 32000 fights a season with a *lot* less work to maintain it (I personally burn myself out on will to play for a while if I wind up doing over 6000 fights in a season). Furthermore you probably can still do almost the same amount of GBG fighting while maintaining it since the best FP buildings do still provide good military boost.

 

[honey55]

The very fact that you're arguing over which guildmate deserves the most fights in farming grounds illustrates the problem with GBG as it stands

It shouldn't be a competition between guildmates over who gets the bigger portion of the allotted farm from some BS coop agreement. It should be a competition between guilds!

It should be celebrated that your lower age players are so efficient as it helps the guild in competitive situations.
It should also be celebrated that you have some players in Titan to help get others the new GBs, because there's going to be a limit of goods available on the open market. Even if they aren't as fast as some lower age players.

One bright side to the recent power creep: GBG-clicker is getting less important. I expect you can make close to a 5000 FP a day collection city with the new building efficiencies and higher era space. This is equivalent to 32000 fights a season with a *lot* less work to maintain it (I personally burn myself out on will to play for a while if I wind up doing over 6000 fights in a season). Furthermore you probably can still do almost the same amount of GBG fighting while maintaining it since the best FP buildings do still provide good military boost.

I didn't bring it up. I just think it is not true. It hasn't been true in my experience. I have always said the problem with gbg is its a competition many times between guildmates. And no, i don't celebrate that there are some players that hog most the fights when its not a race, don't fight when it's not free. The fights take guild goods do if it's not a race, i don't think they should be racing guildmates to have thousands more fights than anyone else. Gbg is a greedfest. I have not fought for rewards for a long time. It was already boring when it was simply farming. Now it's a chore which i may give up. I was doing it to get anither elephant to help my guild and get Titan goods. I only did it last night cause there was apost for help. Ill probsbly leave my guild soon and go back to a my own one person guild and just do events.

The problem with gbg is its a CHORE. The old problems of it being a greedfest have not chsnged. Those who can get the highest attrition should be able to get more fights. They earned it . Not those who mainly fight free sections. And when it's not a race, the whales could sit out and let those who cant get many fights in a chance. Its not worth players while to wait for a free sector just to get 5 fights. Im not the fast player with a fast internet. I worked hard to get both red and blue boosts. What exactly is the advantage of moving up to Titan? Give me a good one so i can start to feel better about it. I don't have all 3gbgs myself, I'm half done with the tech tree and map and gbg and ge seem hopeless, not something i csn use strategy and accomplish at least for a year if my boosts have to be over 4000 and my AO has to be 201 just to enjoy even fighting to 20 attrition. I'm giving my honest feedback. This is how moving up to Titan has hurt my game and given me a sense if hopelessness. I used to think, i might as well fight when it's not free as i can go to 100 attrition. I'll still be able to fight later if i want to. Now i don't even want to fight at all. I change units less in H world and i don't like doing gbg there so skip days at a time. The problem here is that a few of you seem to want to discredit others experience, make it minimal or accuse them if not being team players, instead of offering hope that the game can be fun again by using strategy. I haven't seen it. I enjoy events. So I'll do them and take a break from being in a guild till either a new age comes out that doesnt ruin the game, for ME, not YOU. We all know you love it and your less selfish then i am. OR I come up with a plan that can make gbg fun again. If i come up with a way to complete GE5, i can easily do that in my own guild.

 

[xivarmy]

I'm not trying to call you selfish. Nor can I say that it's the best autobattling age ever or anything - it's not. But that's not abnormal that sometimes an age is more difficult to fight in in one way or another than the one that came before it. Not the first time, won't be the last time.

And certainly there are players who are selfish doing only-waiting for low-attrition fights. But that's 100% a GBG design problem, and not a SAT problem (that 100% attrition reduction is possible, and that the majority of the rewards come from fights rather than round results).

I'm mostly trying to say "it's not that bad". You can still fight plenty even if it's not the perfect situation. And btw, hound Inno on fixing that swap-out procedure on mobile, because that's so much worse than desktop and should be fixed - and should help it be less painful for you to be in an age that yes, you need to swap troops.

The good: You make the most valuable goods that have *ever* existed in the game due to an expanding goods sink (levelling the new OP GBs). Like impossible to trade them "fairly" compared to their relative utility on the market because they have practical value of *way* more than twice a jupiter good. Whether you want to level the buildings yourself, supply the goods to help your guildmates level them, or sell them for FP to people - these goods should have *huge* value to you. And if you're not in Titan, you're at the whim of others as to how much access you have to them.

The mitigating circumstance: Collection is getting much better - including buildings that make more stuff in higher ages - so this should help reduce the need to fight as much to get the same results. And be a reason to be happy to be in higher eras with more space to include better buildings.

Ultimately I can't make this most recent age suck less for you if it's not your cup of tea. I've been in the top era since the release of OF on my original main. And sometimes I've absolutely hated it (OF and its 6 bloody parts that just would not end - at least we got past that concept, SAAB). It's not fun to be trapped but that's the nature of being in the last era - I actually like OF fine now that it's just a flavor I can pass through and not somewhere i'm trapped.

You learn to adapt after a couple of those eras that you wish you could undo. And possibly switch your main to a world that's not trapped if you're really fed up with it (it's not the only reason my currently-Titan world became a diamond mine instead of a main a few years ago - but it's part of it - and part of the perk is that I can test-drive an era in a diamond mine before I commit to it on my new main; though I judge Titan to be worth-the-pain, I mostly want to avoid being trapped in another SAAB situation)

 

[honey55]

Ive never hated moving up before. I've adapted to all the changes before: ge5, ads - i even watch them, not fixing gbg, not being able to do gvg, not being able to get things by strategy and working harder that paying players get in events, getting less diamonds from ge, etc. Why? I still enjoy ge, events, etc.... I don't enjoy gbg anymore. I got my boosts up so i could enjoy it, 100 attrition was aperk. Id rather be able to only go to 50 attrition without changing troops do often, then to go to 100, changing them. In fact, why would i want to do it long enough to get to 50, let alone 100. So I'm supposed to play so i can give goods to lower age players, that's what is supposed to make it worth it? The value of the goods is totally meaningless to me except i can't trade to get them either. But even if i get extra some day in the distant future, I'm not a seller. I never have sold goods. I've given them away before when in a guild to players that were active players in ge and gbg, but i have no interest in selling goods. So being in a an age with valuable goods hurts me too. It's not a perk. I'm still waiting for enough to place a gb, though i still need a bp. Which are also very costly.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Th way the troops are selected in the defense program is key. Inno can change that anytime. The Troops we used to battle were alwyas a mix of all troops. (though sometime this year they all became harder to fight,ones. )Now the enemy is typically only hard to fight troops. So only half troop strength and stats, and half the actual troops selelcted are no longer random, but biased to hard to fight ones. . it is the bias in the troop selection that makes it doubly difficult