Spoils of War in GvG

[Emberguard]

Yes, but those small costs could make a difference in the long run.

And that's just it. The only purpose of gaining goods based on siege costs is to decrease the overall cost of sieges.

Theme wise yeah it sounds great. Raid the opponent. But balance wise without increasing the cost in some way all you've done is make the game easier. Nothing wrong with the concept as long as there's some trade off or risk in the action. Which you don't have in your idea yet. There's no cost involved in what you've proposed, no decision to make.

 

[Super Catanian]

And that's just it. The only purpose of gaining goods based on siege costs is to decrease the overall cost of sieges.

Theme wise yeah it sounds great. Raid the opponent. But balance wise without increasing the cost in some way all you've done is make the game easier. Nothing wrong with the concept as long as there's some trade off or risk in the action. Which you don't have in your idea yet. There's no cost involved in what you've proposed.

The reason that I wanted to implement the spoils of war was because conquering a sector could become expensive, especially if the enemy breaks your siege, requiring you to pay the siege costs again. That is what balances this. But do you have another way of balancing this? Let me know.

 

[Emberguard]

That aspect is already balanced. Success = reward. Failure = consequence. You're trying to partially remove consequence of action.

GvG scales the cost dependent on how many sectors you already own. That's your failsafe against larger guilds. They can't afford to take and keep on taking forever. Providing you use Guild Treasury Great Buildings like the Arc and Observatory you can better afford to attack them repeatedly then they can afford to lose one of their sectors and retake it once they get to a large amount of hexes.

If you implement this feature of gaining goods for defeating a siege/defending army without some trade off in having such a benefit then all you're doing is giving ammo to your enemy. If they're already a larger guild then they've got more eyes and fingers to fight back with. You've already told us in the OP that they're defeating your siege army. In which case this just gives them more goods to unlock more defending army slots and gain more sectors.

 

[Super Catanian]

You've already told us in the OP that they're defeating your siege army. In which case this just gives them more goods to unlock more defending army slots and gain more sectors.

Breaking a siege does not give goods. Conquering a sector does. I never mentioned siege armies in the OP, only defending armies.

 

[Emberguard]

Ok, then the terminology you used must have got mixed up because the OP said this:

What's worse, if a guild defeats a siege army, the other guild has to spend more and more goods placing a new one, which can become expensive. So is placing new defending armies on a sector.

Breaking a siege does not give goods. Conquering a sector does. I never mentioned siege armies in the OP, only defending armies.

Conquering a sector already gives a reward though: Guaranteed guild power.

If what you're saying is conquer a sector and receive goods based on the amount of defence armies defeated then again you're more likely to reward the big guy you're fighting against then yourself. You might get some of their sectors, but you've made it much cheaper for them to retake those sectors based on this proposal (I take it you intend for resources to go straight back to guild treasury here)

Your idea needs something to balance your proposal. A consequence that uses up something in order to gain those goods. At least the treasury GBs have a inbuilt cost for the mitigating of hex resources needed - space and FP of the individual

 

[Super Catanian]

If what you're saying is conquer a sector and receive goods based on the amount of defence armies defeated then again you're more likely to reward the big guy you're fighting against then yourself. You might get some of their sectors, but you've made it much cheaper for them to retake those sectors based on this proposal (I take it you intend for resources to go straight back to guild treasury here)

I have an idea. How about, instead of those goods going to the guild treasury, they go to the individual players? This might reward more active players. Plus, in ancient times, warriors took their own loot instead of sharing it.

 

[Agent327]

That is why this is in the Forge Hall.
I'm reading the responses of everyone else before thinking about it.

If you did not think about it how could you make the post?

 

[Agent327]

The reason that I wanted to implement the spoils of war was because conquering a sector could become expensive, especially if the enemy breaks your siege, requiring you to pay the siege costs again. That is what balances this. But do you have another way of balancing this? Let me know.

Yes. Not balancing it. There is no need for it. It is supposed to cost you more if your siege gets broken, so it is in balance. What you want is to unbalance it.

 

[Super Catanian]

If you did not think about it how could you make the post?

Because that's the whole point of the Forge Hall; to discuss new features. Only in the Proposals section should all ideas be thought out, not half baked.

 

[Super Catanian]

Yes. Not balancing it. There is no need for it. It is supposed to cost you more if your siege gets broken, so it is in balance. What you want is to unbalance it.

But you only need to defeat a siege army 10 times to break it, whereas conquering a sector can take up to 80 successful attacks. Since siege costs can become very expensive (sometimes more expensive than defending one), this might help balance that, even if it's a little bit.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

I have an idea. How about, instead of those goods going to the guild treasury, they go to the individual players? This might reward more active players. Plus, in ancient times, warriors took their own loot instead of sharing it.

That's a big big problem. Treasury GBs like the arc already give large amounts of goods - with the main downside being you can only use them in GvG. If you could make 10000 treasury goods turn into even say 5000 usable goods then it'd become the default method to make goods. A level 80 arc puts 810 goods into the treasury every day (162 of each).

 

[Super Catanian]

That's a big big problem. Treasury GBs like the arc already give large amounts of goods - with the main downside being you can only use them in GvG. If you could make 10000 treasury goods turn into even say 5000 usable goods then it'd become the default method to make goods. A level 80 arc puts 810 goods into the treasury every day (162 of each).

You're absolutely right. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

That's a big big problem. Treasury GBs like the arc already give large amounts of goods - with the main downside being you can only use them in GvG. If you could make 10000 treasury goods turn into even say 5000 usable goods then it'd become the default method to make goods. A level 80 arc puts 810 goods into the treasury every day (162 of each).

i thought the whole thing was that those goods would be returned to the treasury?

 

[Super Catanian]

i thought the whole thing was that those goods would be returned to the treasury?

Sort of. Basically, when you conquer a sector in GvG, the guild would receive a small payout of goods (or medals, if fighting in the AA province). This would be a sort of "spoils of war" mechanic.

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

ahhha i see.

 

[Emberguard]

Woohoo it's finally posted.

@Super Catanian Inno has already balanced your idea even has the same name "spoils of war" (this has been discussed on beta for at least a month if not more btw)

https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/virtual-future-iii.25148/

- GB with a large size footprint (6x6)
- limited to the first X successful battles (so it's not an unlimited source of goods)
- randomly get something between a pool of options
- Virtual Future GB means it will have a significant cost to lvl up (and its value is not as obvious so less likely to have everyone rushing to build it)

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

ACCEPT ME>I ALREADY MADE SPACE IN MY CITY TO BUILD IT>>>>>

 

[Super Catanian]

@Super Catanian Inno has already balanced your idea even has the same name "spoils of war" (this has been discussed on beta for at least a month if not more btw)

Yeah I realized that.
In fact, if you go over to the Forge Hall and open up the feedback thread, I was the first person to comment.

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

Yeah I realized that.
In fact, if you go over to the Forge Hall and open up the feedback thread, I was the first person to comment.

 

[Agent327]

But you only need to defeat a siege army 10 times to break it, whereas conquering a sector can take up to 80 successful attacks. Since siege costs can become very expensive (sometimes more expensive than defending one), this might help balance that, even if it's a little bit.

But it isn't unbalanced. You only think it is. It is supposed to be this way. The unbalance is in your 2 man guild trying to do things beyond their reach.