Spy vs. Spy

[DeletedUser29206]

I did a search and did not see it

Has anyone ever proposed a Spy Great building or Military building...

the basics being you can use spies to weaken or steal from an opponent

with choices like
Raid Enemy Treasury to steal goods from an opponents treasury
Propaganda Convert Enemy Troops so they fight on your side
Release Bioagent to weaken Enemy troops
Sabotage Enemy Sector weakens or kills a small percentage of defending army...

just a thought for an added dimension in game play. -- I know some do not like the unknown guild ... this would be intentional

however if your spies are caught it reveals who you are... also your spies can die in the exchange

not super attached to the idea, but throwing it out there anyway.

 

[Lord Magister]

Interesting...

 

[Algona]

People can attack me and there is no way I can mitigate it? No, thanks.

 

[DeletedUser29206]

People can attack me and there is no way I can mitigate it? No, thanks.

Clarifications: ...I know I was very ambiguous...

As I was writing it I was thinking more along the lines of GvG,

--- mostly because it would overpower any PvP plundering, and accessing into a single player's treasury would be almost sacrilegious. Aggressive players would just overbuild the spy aspect, and raid at will, with no adequate method of defensively protecting goods.

whereas in GVG it can be setup as a spy ring where multiple players need to put in spies on the map to perform certain actions... and a counter intelligence force can be mounted.

At an individual level land is too scarce to mount an effective counter intelligence, and it would force players in a direction they may not be willing to go in. Whereas with a large enough GvG type guild finding players willing to go in this direction may not be as hard to accomplish.

 

[DeletedUser24787]

with players already complaining about plunder you would like to add more fuel to the flame i would say yes but we both know which way the hammer is gonna swing with the outcry of the non defended

 

[Algona]

If this is part of GvG only then no further comment, since I don;t do GvG right now.

 

[DeletedUser29206]

If this is part of GvG only then no further comment, since I don;t do GvG right now.

yep, I just do not see how a PvP version of this would be good for the game. granted those who plunder would probably like it, but it would really be unfair to other players.

-- GvG is optional and a conscious decision, so it would be more to them to decide if they would like to have such a dynamic added to the game.

 

[DeletedUser26154]

the basics being you can use spies to weaken or steal from an opponent

Drivers of the Trojan Horse would +1 this all day.
The rest of us would say...

 

[DeletedUser29206]

Drivers of the Trojan Horse would +1 this all day.
The rest of us would say...

View attachment 4845

I get the urge every now and then ...

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

I did a search and did not see it

Has anyone ever proposed a Spy Great building or Military building...

the basics being you can use spies to weaken or steal from an opponent

with choices like
Raid Enemy Treasury to steal goods from an opponents treasury
Propaganda Convert Enemy Troops so they fight on your side
Release Bioagent to weaken Enemy troops
Sabotage Enemy Sector weakens or kills a small percentage of defending army...

just a thought for an added dimension in game play. -- I know some do not like the unknown guild ... this would be intentional

however if your spies are caught it reveals who you are... also your spies can die in the exchange

not super attached to the idea, but throwing it out there anyway.

How would this work? The ability to raid a treasury certainly needs details if you want it to be actually discussed/considered in any meaningful way. The 'convert' enemy troops idea is a no go since as you must be aware that GVG armies require 10 successful battles to kill. So you want to basically steal an army and make them unattached for the owner of your new GB?

Weaken the enemy troops could be interesting although I think it would be too tough to implement in any way that wouldn't be over powered since a guild could have 80 members using this function. How is Sabotage the enemy sector different than the bioagent one?

 

[DeletedUser29206]

bio - agent would affect troops vs. sabotage affects ranged weapons i.e catapults / trebuchets
guilds would still have to balance their offensive spy ring to a counter intelligence and regular defending and attacking armies.
--- perhaps create it as a percentage function of regular troops assigned to a sector.

no it is not stealing an entire army but a very small percentage of an enemies defensive army during an attack
-- so you would execute this first if successful you get 1-3% of an opponents units fighting for you in a follow up attack. when the attack is over the units restore back to the owner unless they die in battle. however any battle damage would still need to heal. you would also have to repeat this for each of the 10 battles.

raid a treasury would need some type of floor function where in it can be capped and continuous hits would follow a path of diminishing returns, technically it should take at least 1000 of hits to deplete an opponents treasury. you could start at something like .05%

for example... you also run a risk of a cointel op destroying your spy ring
--- i.e if you lose more than 30% of the ring then your guild name is revealed.
a treasury with 1,000 goods available -- after 30 hits you only get one good per hit...
--- of course various starting quantities would move the percentage decimal point to keep it fair.
1 1000 0.50% 5 995
2 995 0.4900% 4 991
3 991 0.4800% 4 987
4 987 0.4700% 4 983
5 983 0.4600% 4 979
6 979 0.4500% 4 975
7 975 0.4400% 4 971
8 971 0.4300% 4 967
9 967 0.4200% 4 963
10 963 0.4100% 3 960
11 960 0.4000% 3 957
12 957 0.3900% 3 954
13 954 0.3800% 3 951
14 951 0.3700% 3 948
15 948 0.3600% 3 945
16 945 0.3500% 3 942
17 942 0.3400% 3 939
18 939 0.3300% 3 936
19 936 0.3200% 2 934
20 934 0.3100% 2 932
21 932 0.3000% 2 930
22 930 0.2900% 2 928
23 928 0.2800% 2 926
24 926 0.2700% 2 924
25 924 0.2600% 2 922
26 922 0.2500% 2 920
27 920 0.2400% 2 918
28 918 0.2300% 2 916
29 916 0.2200% 2 914
30 914 0.2100% 1 913

the above is just an example ... these can of course be adjusted to ensure it is not overpowered. useful if you are a weaker/smaller guild trying to slow a larger or stronger guild down a little.

a spy ring should take something like 10 players providing 5 spies each, and those 50 spies can only perform one action per turn.

but like i said i have not really put much thought into this and not super attached either ... just skimming the surface for now.
--- maybe it sticks to the wall maybe it doesn't, either is an acceptable outcome.

 

[wolfhoundtoo]

bio - agent would affect troops vs. sabotage affects ranged weapons i.e catapults / trebuchets
guilds would still have to balance their offensive spy ring to a counter intelligence and regular defending and attacking armies.
--- perhaps create it as a percentage function of regular troops assigned to a sector.

no it is not stealing an entire army but a very small percentage of an enemies defensive army during an attack
-- so you would execute this first if successful you get 1-3% of an opponents units fighting for you in a follow up attack. when the attack is over the units restore back to the owner unless they die in battle. however any battle damage would still need to heal. you would also have to repeat this for each of the 10 battles.

raid a treasury would need some type of floor function where in it can be capped and continuous hits would follow a path of diminishing returns, technically it should take at least 1000 of hits to deplete an opponents treasury. you could start at something like .05%

for example... you also run a risk of a cointel op destroying your spy ring
--- i.e if you lose more than 30% of the ring then your guild name is revealed.
a treasury with 1,000 goods available -- after 30 hits you only get one good per hit...
--- of course various starting quantities would move the percentage decimal point to keep it fair.
1 1000 0.50% 5 995
2 995 0.4900% 4 991
3 991 0.4800% 4 987
4 987 0.4700% 4 983
5 983 0.4600% 4 979
6 979 0.4500% 4 975
7 975 0.4400% 4 971
8 971 0.4300% 4 967
9 967 0.4200% 4 963
10 963 0.4100% 3 960
11 960 0.4000% 3 957
12 957 0.3900% 3 954
13 954 0.3800% 3 951
14 951 0.3700% 3 948
15 948 0.3600% 3 945
16 945 0.3500% 3 942
17 942 0.3400% 3 939
18 939 0.3300% 3 936
19 936 0.3200% 2 934
20 934 0.3100% 2 932
21 932 0.3000% 2 930
22 930 0.2900% 2 928
23 928 0.2800% 2 926
24 926 0.2700% 2 924
25 924 0.2600% 2 922
26 922 0.2500% 2 920
27 920 0.2400% 2 918
28 918 0.2300% 2 916
29 916 0.2200% 2 914
30 914 0.2100% 1 913

the above is just an example ... these can of course be adjusted to ensure it is not overpowered. useful if you are a weaker/smaller guild trying to slow a larger or stronger guild down a little.

a spy ring should take something like 10 players providing 5 spies each, and those 50 spies can only perform one action per turn.

but like i said i have not really put much thought into this and not super attached either ... just skimming the surface for now.
--- maybe it sticks to the wall maybe it doesn't, either is an acceptable outcome.

1-3% of the enemy's units and afterwards they are restored to the owner? that's not GVG that would be PVP then. No one owns the armies in the GVG sectors anymore. Plus 1-3% of what? If you mean GVG that's going to become one army that comes over for one attack........which I would anticipate would be a losing attack since I'd just kill off the 'borrowed' army if it was from a GVG sector. if it's from a player's army I'd like to point out that with unattached that could be quite a large amount of troops. If you mean one battle in GVG and somehow mean that 1 to 3 units switch side in the battle that gives us a few problems: you'd be controlling over 8 units and vastly overpowered since you'd certainly auto and lose very little since it would be 11 units to 5 units. On the plus side that's less over powered than just stealing an army from a sector outright and to be a useful ability you'd have to be at least participating in the attack on the sector.

 

[DeletedUser29206]

1-3% of the enemy's units and afterwards they are restored to the owner? that's not GVG that would be PVP then. No one owns the armies in the GVG sectors anymore. Plus 1-3% of what? If you mean GVG that's going to become one army that comes over for one attack........which I would anticipate would be a losing attack since I'd just kill off the 'borrowed' army if it was from a GVG sector. if it's from a player's army I'd like to point out that with unattached that could be quite a large amount of troops. If you mean one battle in GVG and somehow mean that 1 to 3 units switch side in the battle that gives us a few problems: you'd be controlling over 8 units and vastly overpowered since you'd certainly auto and lose very little since it would be 11 units to 5 units. On the plus side that's less over powered than just stealing an army from a sector outright and to be a useful ability you'd have to be at least participating in the attack on the sector.

so drop to one unit with a low random chance at two units it comes out as 9v7... with a random factor of 10v6...but you also need to account in a random failure in which spies die and you get nothing for the effort. this is where it becomes adjustable i.e the random chance of success coupled to any any cointel, which would diminish those chances. So you could start with a raw 25% chance, but if your opponent has a matching defensive cointel it drops this 10%... however you as a player would not know this part of the equation. higher risk for a greater return.
--- you could also add in a gather intel spy op to see what their cointel force looks like.

-- numbers can always be adjusted to balance things out... conceptually though the functionality at its core remains the same.

would it add to the game in a fun way, or would this just be frustrating? this is where i am completely unsure of the impact this would have on active GvG guilds. would they see added value in this or curse the day this was even brought up? I honestly do not know, it could fall either way.

 

[DeletedUser26154]

I get the urge every now and then ...

Fill it with money and you can do it all day.

There is a balance to the plundering system.
Having a way to plunder a player, with out any kind of counter, is a bit over powered.
Yes I'm saying this in light of a game that allowed 6+ era difference attacks.

Spy thing is a little too over powered.
It's kind of like my suggestion of launching a One-Down Kit at an enemy capital before invasion.

 

[DeletedUser29206]

Fill it with money and you can do it all day.

There is a balance to the plundering system.
Having a way to plunder a player, with out any kind of counter, is a bit over powered.
Yes I'm saying this in light of a game that allowed 6+ era difference attacks.

Spy thing is a little too over powered.
It's kind of like my suggestion of launching a One-Down Kit at an enemy capital before invasion.

for now limiting this to GvG

 

[DeletedUser13068]

I did a search and did not see it

Has anyone ever proposed a Spy Great building or Military building...

the basics being you can use spies to weaken or steal from an opponent

with choices like
Raid Enemy Treasury to steal goods from an opponents treasury
Propaganda Convert Enemy Troops so they fight on your side
Release Bioagent to weaken Enemy troops
Sabotage Enemy Sector weakens or kills a small percentage of defending army...

just a thought for an added dimension in game play. -- I know some do not like the unknown guild ... this would be intentional

however if your spies are caught it reveals who you are... also your spies can die in the exchange

not super attached to the idea, but throwing it out there anyway.

I like the idea, I've been thinking of ideas on how it would work.

 

[DeletedUser32426]

Here comes 007 ha ha. like it too