.

[DeletedUser26146]

.

 

[DeletedUser31540]

Edit - looks like u arent quite done typing it up yet but it seems to me like a whole lot of work ... seems okay for a bunch of newish players with lowish arcs who wanna try to make things fair — i appreciate that u look out for the little guy!

I myself completely disregard the ‘little guys’ - either they will find their way or they wont ... i take no moral obligations upon myself to be the one to make up for their shortcomings and/or lack of strategy and/or lack of play time

Edit #2 - upon further evaluation i believe this to be a good maybe even great system - But ... like you said it requires a loot of work, effort, and messaging to make sure it goes smoothly — and random donations from anyone outside of the thread would cause serious problems which would be even more of a hassle to correct

Great idea - requires a lot of organization to pull off - and easily mucked up by random donations !

 

[DeletedUser38522]

I’m totally confused. Isn’t part of the game mucking thru...challenging your brain? Working hard or harder then the players before you? you can beat them later!! I’m fairly new to the game.. but the quick builders have weaknesses. Exploit them. Sure I get down at at times but then I figure out something new and fight back. It’s a game. Oh wait it’s kinda like real life. Don’t whine... I have been a scraper all my life.

 

[mamboking053]

Don't different GB's have different reward values for the same slot at the same level. If person A and B donate a set amount to first place of two different GB's at the same level, someone is getting less for their donation than the other...right?

 

[Emberguard]

Don't different GB's have different reward values for the same slot at the same level.

Rewards are based on age of GB yes. So the system works best as a long term relationship. One can always keep a running total of amounts gone in to amounts gone out.

EG:

+300 Embers Zeus (30 behind)
+199 mambos' AO (100 ahead)
+0 Empire (even)

 

[DeletedUser37581]

I guess I'm not seeing the "sniper proof" part of this.

Let's say you have a level 49 Cape working toward level 50. First place basic reward is 675 FPs. So the idea is work out a swap with someone who also just happens to have a GB offering a 675 basic reward for some place who wants to take three days to fill 1st in your Cape.

What exactly is stopping an outsider from sniping 1st?

 

[Emberguard]

Nothing. But if you've got a lvl 49 cape you're also going to have a reasonable sized Arc

 

[DeletedUser37581]

Nothing. But if you've got a lvl 49 cape you're also going to have a reasonable sized Arc

True, but empireforger states:

these advanced techniques can be used on the higher levels. which allow any player (regardless of their GB or its level), to swap with any other player (regardless of their GB or its level).

Any swap arrangement that fills top to bottom will likely have no problem with snipers for GBs below level 30 or so. It is GBs above level 30 where sniper problems start to creep in. Maybe I should have used an Arc level 35 in my example instead.

 

[BruteForceAttack]

"the best", really? Want if top 1, 2 or 3 are taken at 1.9?

 

[DeletedUser37581]

"the best", really? Want if top 1, 2 or 3 are taken at 1.9?

"the best" is subjective. For someone who isn't concerned about rewards but wants simplicity, "the best" might be the regular swap threads. For someone who is a swap thread shark - prowling the swaps for the best value returns - "the best" could very well be the regular swap threads also where he can make 30%, 50%, or higher returns on his investment. For a lot of people with level 80 Arcs (or higher), the 1.9 swap threads are "the best".

 

[Emberguard]

it could be tweaked/done that way, however with that style, there is the risk of people making off with large amounts of fps if the group falls apart and others can get stuck with a big loss.

The idea of a running total is you know exactly how much you've put in and got back so you don't get to the point of a big loss in the first place. With your system unless you're intending to do swaps of the same era of the same lvl it's an uneven amount traded which means you've still got the same problem. There's no reason you couldn't use your system and have a running total to track how much is being put in proportion to how much you're giving back

If it's simply being used as a -here's my GB, claim a space- like 1.9 threads then it doesn't need a running total, but if you're swapping then your system either needs tracking or to be two GBs of equal value for it to work.

In your example it'd be a lvl 12 CDM for a lvl 8 AO and the CDM would need an additional 25FPs put into it because the rewards are different for 1st. The chances of having the exact GB at the exact lvl needed for it [and to be a GB the owner wanted lvl'd at that time] to be a fair trade is pretty slim.

That's the inherent problem with this system, it requires enough players needs to be the same at the exact same time in order for them to trade and not be out of pocket

 

[Freshmeboy]

That's a well contrived plan for making sure every player gets a piece of the pie..It seems any snags arising would involve the humans participating in the multitude of swaps and the slowness of the leveling process. How quickly do the upper levels of base GBs (Zues, Hagia, LOA, TOR, etc.) reach completion on average using your method..?

 

[Emberguard]

[...] in the first scren shot above:
player posted 375/75 AO
[...]
the two players will swap their points, 375 each way, and the swap will close. there is no need for the complex tracking system that is used in the wheel swaps [...]

What's the 75 for if the swap is 375?

There's nothing complex about the tracking system. You're bringing in a additional system I never mentioned. + and - That's it. It's a individual to individual basis. No wheel

What size guild have you been using your x5 system? It looks like something that'd only work in larger guilds

 

[BruteForceAttack]

the way the prize structure of gb's are designed, 5x prize will lock in each prize at its place.

here is a example of how 4 players with different level GB's might match up and cross.
a level 3 cdm , level 8 arc , level 7 smb , level 14 TA
this is just for big picture visual of how it all might fit together.

its not pre-planned or orchestrated this way. every person is in complete control of when they swap, what GB they swap, how fast they swap, etc ... similar to a nomal 5/10 thread, people participate or not at their leisure, posting whatever GB they want to level at the time, with the only commitment being the length of each individual swap.

a player will post a prize/GB they want to swap ...other players who are interested in swapping for that guaranteed prize, will look at their current GB levels to see if they have anything that fits/matches, then PM the original poster to set the details and begin the swap

notice that each prize would be locked in its position. since the swap amounts are 5x the prize value, they are much higher than most people would pay under normal circumstances.
so in many cases you can swap the 2nd prize first, and then swap the 1st prize second, and the 2nd prize would fall into its correct position on the GB and both spots will be locked.
[as mentioned, it is best to swap prizes in order. swapping out of order is recommended only after people get the hang of the system. i would say it generally takes 10-12 swaps or 3-4 fully leveled GB's for people to get up to running speed.]
View attachment 12092

What if of all the 4 one has 80 level arc and the other three don't even have an arc, how is this "the best" way of swaping fps?

 

[Freshmeboy]

Gotcha..It's a sloooooow process....good luck, I'll stick to self level and private swaps....

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

a couple things A: i get the jist , not reading it all though,
B: not evey guildie would resad a system like this

 

[*Arturis*]

Too complicated for me, good luck

 

[DeletedUser29726]

lol.
i do tend to make it more complicated than it is by trying to explain how it works in detail...so people understand it

but its basically:
on lower levels, swap prizes for 5x value. (5x is the 'magic' number that locks the prize and makes it easy to use among groups) ...
on higher levels, swap enough to lock prizes ... split prize differences with kick backs.

The core need for swap systems is that in their most basic form they're simple for the average user. You need a one paragraph 'this is all you need to know' description or it's too complicated to be practical. In your giant wall of text I'm still not sure I understand the point or that it's relevant in the modern game.

- you seem to require similar matching rewards. while I can understand why this would be desirable it's frequently not practical. People will be working on widely varying levels of buildings.
- it requires many individual negotiations and the inherent demand for your attention that requires (i.e. if you're taking someone's post you have to first clear it from the main thread, then message them, wait for at least one reply, and then finally start to spend your FP) - most systems in use whether it be 1.9 threads or N FP threads revolve around one quick post and drop. If you're say doing 3 GB levels a day, this would mean 15 individual negotiations daily and a whole lot of attention.

 

[Emberguard]

this system allows all the serious/elite players to easily work in a larger group

other systems allow that too. A system only has to be managed by a single player if they're the only player that understands the system

 

[DeletedUser29726]

all systems have their pro's / cons / differences i listed a few in the INTRO but tried not to make it wall

one problem with most swap systems is: they are managed by 1 person, and lots of people derive benefit.
i.e. you volunteer your RL time and energy to manage a guild thread, so many other people can derive a lot of benefit to their personal game city. while you get no personal city/game benefit for all that help you provide.
with direct/private swaps (which this system uses) the people that use it manage their own opportunities. which is more fair/equitable.
this is not intended to be the most basic/simplest/easiest system. i never claimed that it was.

It doesn't have to be the *simplest* but it does have to be simple. As for management demands, I have to do some amount of managing on N fp swap threads or 1.xx drop threads less than once a month? Once people know how they work they pretty much take care of themself. The biggest part of management is remembering to add new members. I do have a swap system on one world that I do have to manage a few times a week, but overall that's fine with me. I get to use it too and the reward for guild leadership and the work that comes with it is not your own progression but rather having greater say in how the guild runs.

in my experience, i've found that the more serious/'elite'/'better' players generally use direct swapping/messaging to some degree, but usually do so in small cliques or 1-on-1, which are affected by player attrition. [if your 1, long time swapping buddy quits good luck finding a new one]
this system allows all the serious/elite players to easily work in a larger group. obviously over time, different players go into 'serious mode,' while others fade away to retirement ... this system can continue to thrive over time as people join and leave the group. .. it has staying power similar to 5/10 threads.

To some degree this is true - but 1.xx threads represent the extension from a small clique to a larger group and are plenty to level buildings with (and advantageous to slower players as well if they use them smartly) - they encompass the same basic method those elite players use to determine what's fair among themselves. Granted the clique might be doing 1.95 swaps now or something like that while the guild-wide thread is doing 1.85 or 1.9 but the difference is only terribly significant on very high level GBs - GBs which slower players looking for multi-day swaps have no business thinking they can take a top 2-3 spot anyways.

negotiation may not be the best word.... its more, matching prizes and letting the other person know. (i posted a example or two of the messaging process)
every GB that is used is volunteered by the owner. since both people make the same amount of FP's to win a guaranteed prize, there is not really a need to 'negotiate'.

You skimmed over the point which is that it requires constant attention if you have FP to drop *now*. Rather than finding an opportunity and taking it, you have to find an opportunity, send a message, wait for a response at minimum. That waiting for a response means you can't move onto other things than the game immediately. Alternatively, with 1.xx drop threads you can first take any spot that's currently open and appeals to you, and then self-drop the rest of your bar into a building of your choice that you *actually want to work on* to set it up to be taken.

consider the time people spend 'hawking' over swap threads and spreading fp's all around, the time and attention that requires. common 5/10 threads favor highly active/larger players. they generally promote/encourage higher activity/attention level, as people try to compete for the prizes.

They used to. Highly active people have high level arcs by now and if they're reasonable folks stop hawking the small swap threads.

one thing that makes this system relevant to today's game, is that it allows less active people to compete with highly active players.
with this system, i can set up a direct swap one day [on my desktop CPU], casually work at it until complete and win my guaranteed prize without having to fight against the mobile players that have 24/7 access everywhere they go.
with this system i dont have to hunt for certain threads. i dont even have to open my messages for days. . i can just set up a 3-4-5 day swap... log in, put my fp's toward it and log out. always winning a prize

Except it doesn't let them compete. If it's a building I care about, I'm not accepting a 3-4-5 day swap on it because i plan to have multiple levels completed in that time. If it's a building I don't care about immediately, I'm probably trying to sell goods for the top spot - not swap FPs - as I can't use those to directly level buildings anyways. On the other hand a 1.xx thread can help them out if they use it smartly. No they shouldn't be taking 1sts and 2nds - but if you can get past the mental block of wanting to 'win' you'll find having easy cheap access to 4ths and 5ths on level 50 buildings is way better for medals and blueprints - and you make more FP than you lose out on by getting those who do have arcs to take your 1sts and 2nds.