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The holiday event is just junk

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
We have players with 27 Space age Diamond farms with over 300 wishing wells per farm. at least one city maxed out with Eagle mountains and Sentinel outposts.
I can assure you that is not your average player. Sure, you will have those outliers who have either spent tons of time or tons of money building such empires, but believe me it is not relevant to this discussion. Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, etc., can buy anything they want, but they are not relevant to any discussion of the economic effects of anything in the real world on the average consumer.
 

Mor-Rioghain

Well-Known Member
Yes, the lunch buffet is what's called a "loss leader". Taking a loss (or minimal profit) on something to entice people to try your other products. I've mentioned this before.
Had no way of knowing your knowledge of business terminology nor of it's application in the real world.
Except that's not what Inno has done here. They've taken a "lunch buffet" that was basically free to many players and put a price on it. This is not a "lunch buffet" that didn't exist before. Using your example, Inno has taken that discounted "lunch buffet" and marked it up to full price, no coupons allowed. That is not remotely "enticing" anyone to spend more money, quite the opposite. The only reason it might seem to work in this case is that the main building is levels above what they normally offer and some players will spend the money to get multiples. In order for it to work long-term they would have to keep offering better and better buildings each and every event. Power creep is bad enough now, imagine what that will do to game balance.
Otherwise known as 'the hook,' i.e., the banner in front of the restaurant got you in the door. The restauranter is now hoping you'll buy from the menu at regular price rather than the reduced price buffet.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
Had no way of knowing your knowledge of business terminology nor of it's application in the real world.

Otherwise known as 'the hook,' i.e., the banner in front of the restaurant got you in the door. The restauranter is now hoping you'll buy from the menu at regular price rather than the reduced price buffet.
That would be false advertising if the banner said it was discounted. And if it didn't, then that metaphor doesn't work in this situation. This situation is more like you've been going to this restaurant for years and enjoying their discounted lunch buffet, mainly because it was affordable and not because they had great lunch choices. Sometimes you come back and have dinner at regular price. Then, without warning (or even a reason), they bump the lunch buffet up to full price or more. Now, do you keep coming there for that shabby lunch at full price? Or any meals?

Yes, in the case of this event building, some players are biting the bullet and paying the cash price (plus tons of Diamonds) to get extras of the main building. I might even do it in one of my cities. Probably not, but maybe. Will that continue? As I stated before, I only see it continuing to draw players into buying it if the event buildings keep getting better and better. Given FoE's history, how likely is that? Mostly it's been ho hum event buildings interrupted every once in a while with a good-to-great one. I don't see the future being bright for this little boondoggle, but I could be wrong. In any case, it doesn't affect my real life, so...
 

Angry.Blanket

Well-Known Member
I can assure you that is not your average player. Sure, you will have those outliers who have either spent tons of time or tons of money building such empires, but believe me it is not relevant to this discussion. Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, etc., can buy anything they want, but they are not relevant to any discussion of the economic effects of anything in the real world on the average consumer.
Are you certain it has nothing to do with this conversation? That is contradictory to all the arguments about having to pay cash vs getting it for free Why else would Inno change to cash ?
I pay to play and I feel like this is the least expensive event for me to date.
 

Graviton

Well-Known Member
If players could only get Diamonds by buying them, you would be right. I have Diamond farms. In the past I could get the bonus reward line without spending a dime. Now I have to spend $15. You don't think that's a change?!? Especially for us retired folks who don't always have extra cash laying around.
Diamonds represent one of two things: time or money. You either spend the time to gather them for free, or you skip to the chase and spend real money for them. Since most players get diamonds by spending money, from that perspective diamonds and money are pretty much the same thing.

I have a couple of diamond farms too, I don't buy diamonds. But I still spend them as if I do, which means: not very often, only a few of them at a time, and almost never on events. I'm not going to spend a few thousand for an extra building in one world. I have no problem with those who do. More power to 'em. Go on and spend that $$$ so I can keep playing for free!

The point is, if you have to buy thousands of diamonds to get multiple buildings, or you have to pay cash money for multiple buildings, I call that a distinction without a difference. It certainly is for the vast majority of players who don't farm thousands of diamonds a month. You're always talking about the tiny percentage of players who play GvG. I would guess the percentage of players who farm thousands of diamonds with any frequency isn't much higher. For them, the difference is that if they don't want to spend real dollars they'll have to spend a few more 'free' diamonds than they were going to. For extra buildings. The farmers who are amassing enough diamonds to consider spending them that way can probably afford it.

I'll repeat again: from where I sit. My opinion, my perspective, and I think the perspective of F2P players who don't have a dozen diamond farms. Just because you see it differently doesn't mean anybody's wrong.

Use all the obscure words you want, you're still wrong. See my above comment.

He's not wrong either, you just disagree with us. Different perspectives.
 

Mor-Rioghain

Well-Known Member
That would be false advertising if the banner said it was discounted.
No, not false advertising. I never said that -- this is the problem when you copy/paste out of context. I said that the banner for the lunch buffet gets you in the door. The buffet and the discounted price is still there but does not mean that there aren't still menu items at full price available to anyone who orders them.
And if it didn't, then that metaphor doesn't work in this situation. This situation is more like you've been going to this restaurant for years and enjoying their discounted lunch buffet, mainly because it was affordable and not because they had great lunch choices. Sometimes you come back and have dinner at regular price. Then, without warning (or even a reason), they bump the lunch buffet up to full price or more. Now, do you keep coming there for that shabby lunch at full price? Or any meals?
A business is not obligated to inform customers that they are going to go up on their prices, whether they were discounted or otherwise. For customers to expect prices to remain static is not only unreasonable, it's *really* unreasonable. Costs go up. Wages go up. Etc., etc. New/raised prices for existing items must go up or be eliminated altogether for a business to even break even. Most people would agree with this but for some reason this keeps coming back to something that's already advertised as "on special" or a "discounted price." Why should those items be excluded from normal COLA? It's smart business to eliminate anything that is 'discounted' precisely because there is less of a profit margin to begin with.

You example only proves my point.
Then, without warning (or even a reason), they bump the lunch buffet up to full price or more.
Why warn a customer that prices are increasing? Again, business has no obligation to warn of anything in terms of pricing. Would you expect your grocery store to tell you when the price of bread is going up? Milk? Gasoline? I highly doubt it. So why a gaming company? What pains me is that the players are given an option to not only earn the event currency -- completely free of real money expenditure -- and still complain that the 'price went up.' Went up from what exactly? It was free. It's still free. If the player cannot obtain the fully leveled item without expenditure of cash they have the option to obtain the kits at a later date. Why is it the company's responsibility to do more than that?
Now, do you keep coming there for that shabby lunch at full price? Or any meals?

That's certainly the customer's choice but what you don't address is whether or not it's the company's obligation (or desire) to try to keep you, a non- or low-spending customer. Why would they want to? The point behind the hook is to bring in potential *spending* customers, not to offer continued discounts.

Let's be honest here: if such a customer were to leave what exactly is it that the company is really losing? They spent nothing so the company is losing nothing. LOL, sorry, but the argument is just about the same -- full of air. That's not false advertising, that's just business.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
Are you certain it has nothing to do with this conversation?
Yes, I am certain. If someone complained that housing costs had gone up and you responded by saying that Warren Buffet has millions of dollars, your response would be irrelevant to the point. Same here. Unless you're trying to say (wrongly) that such players are the norm among all active players. Which I know you're not.
Diamonds represent one of two things: time or money. You either spend the time to gather them for free, or you skip to the chase and spend real money for them. Since most players get diamonds by spending money, from that perspective diamonds and money are pretty much the same thing.

I have a couple of diamond farms too, I don't buy diamonds. But I still spend them as if I do, which means: not very often, only a few of them at a time, and almost never on events. I'm not going to spend a few thousand for an extra building in one world. I have no problem with those who do. More power to 'em. Go on and spend that $$$ so I can keep playing for free!

The point is, if you have to buy thousands of diamonds to get multiple buildings, or you have to pay cash money for multiple buildings, I call that a distinction without a difference. It certainly is for the vast majority of players who don't farm thousands of diamonds a month. You're always talking about the tiny percentage of players who play GvG. I would guess the percentage of players who farm thousands of diamonds with any frequency isn't much higher. For them, the difference is that if they don't want to spend real dollars they'll have to spend a few more 'free' diamonds than they were going to. For extra buildings. The farmers who are amassing enough diamonds to consider spending them that way can probably afford it.

I'll repeat again: from where I sit. My opinion, my perspective, and I think the perspective of F2P players who don't have a dozen diamond farms. Just because you see it differently doesn't mean anybody's wrong.



He's not wrong either, you just disagree with us. Different perspectives.
Except that you're trying to say that nothing has changed, and you are factually wrong. Not an opinion or perspective. Something tangibly changed. To deny it is to deny reality.
No, not false advertising. I never said that -- this is the problem when you copy/paste out of context. I said that the banner for the lunch buffet gets you in the door. The buffet and the discounted price is still there but does not mean that there aren't still menu items at full price available to anyone who orders them.
Except in this case the lunch buffet is no longer discounted. You seem to have trouble with metaphors.
A business is not obligated to inform customers that they are going to go up on their prices, whether they were discounted or otherwise.
True, but raising them is not an incentive to customers, as you are trying to imply here.
Why warn a customer that prices are increasing?
Let's be real here. You're trying to imply that this change is some kind of loss leader or incentive for players to spend more money, which is completely ridiculous. It is what most players would call a "cash grab". I have avoided that term in the past, but in this case it fits like a glove.
 

Mor-Rioghain

Well-Known Member
True, but raising them is not an incentive to customers, as you are trying to imply here.
It's an incentive to the regular or high-end buyer. Why would a company want to please the the bargain buyers? There's no money in it much less opportunity for future growth. That doesn't spell success in business, that spells bankruptcy.
Let's be real here. You're trying to imply that this change is some kind of loss leader or incentive for players to spend more money, which is completely ridiculous. It is what most players would call a "cash grab". I have avoided that term in the past, but in this case it fits like a glove.
The hook got you in the door, i.e., F2P. They count on you enoying the ambiance enough to want to continue. They do offer the ultimate prize for F2P but you have to wait OR spend money. You keep telling me I'm missing the point when in fact you are.

The premium prize is available to all players. You just have to wait if you are unwilling/unable to pay.

How is that false advertising? It's not. They never promised you'd get it within the time frame of the event. They only promised that it would be available. And just exactly how is raising pricing not an incentive to customers to buy more? You are limiting your scope to those customers who only buy 'some' not the customers who buy 'all.' The entire point behind a loss leader and using a hook to entice customers to try out something new is to induce them to spend money. How much money is up to the customer -- do they want basic, average, or premium? The base is the same but think of it as an option package. You still get the workable base but no extras. After all, each event item at the beginning levels still provides one or more resources; it's not a dud item that gives the player nothing. If you want the premium you have to pay for it. We can say apples and oranges or oranges and apples but the end result is the same: you have to pay to have premium if you want it now. None of your arguments have proven one thing to support your position that they are misleading the customers nor have you presented anything of any substantive value or to refute my position that they are under no obligation to the consumer who pays 'none' or 'little.' They are really only obliged to provide the premium customer the premium package. If you spend nothing and they lose your business they lose nothing.

The fact of the matter is that they got you in the door. If you pay nothing or pay only a litle and you leave, you've simply made room for another customer who might just pay more. They've lost nothing.

(I posted an analgous situation by speaking of a restaurant offering a discounted buffet and you accuse me of not understanding a metaphor. Hmmm, seems like you might wish to redirect your attention to the differenc between a metaphor and an analogy, Sir).
 
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Graviton

Well-Known Member
Except that you're trying to say that nothing has changed, and you are factually wrong. Not an opinion or perspective. Something tangibly changed. To deny it is to deny reality.

Whatever you say, man. I'm not interested in another of your pedantic exchanges. I stated my opinion clearly enough. If you want to believe that your perspective is the only true view of it, go ahead.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
It incentivized me to spend 400$ on this event so if there is 5000 more more like me on all the other servers then Inno is doing pretty good this event with about 2 million from one event
That has more to do with the main event building being way better than usual. If it had been one of the run-of-the-mill event buildings would you have even spent $15? No, you wouldn't.
 

Mahya

New Member
Why blame Inno for not providing prizes to free-to-play players the prizes they want? How does free-play translate into income for a for-profit business? This type of complaint has been addressed ad infinitum, ad nauseum in just about every game I've ever played that has a pay-to-play option. I concur with @Pericles the Lion that if you are willing to pay and the option doesn't exist than it is "the only thing to gripe about." Why exclude the people willing to pay real $ for something? Then it would be unfair. I personally like the fact that I have so many options to choose from in games that were once only offered for purchase by the gaming industry.
Because the so-ca
(1) It’s a tactic for converting potential customers into paying customers, and if done well can result in those customers being far more generous with their wallets (2) the game would be meaningless to pay to play if the free to play get isolated and leave.

While I can’t blame Inno for wanting to turn a profit, the game is advertised as free to play. So the paying customers will have a certain set of expectations stemming from that. It’s in Inno‘s interest to keep the free to play players happy, even if that seems counterintuitive
(1) It’s a tactic for converting potential customers into paying customers, and if done well can result in those customers being far more generous with their wallets (2) the game would be meaningless to pay to play if the free to play get isolated and leave.

While I can’t blame Inno for wanting to turn a profit, the game is advertised as free to play. So the paying customers will have a certain set of expectations stemming from that. It’s in Inno‘s interest to keep the free to play players happy, even if that seems counterintuitive
exactly. I actually paid a lot more when I started the game - now I pay NOTHING - not because the paying rewards aren't good, but because the game when I don't pay ends up SUCKball I would like nice 'free' game, with some payoffs here and there that I'm willing to throw in for - not a game that I need to pay for
 

Mahya

New Member
Except that this building is much better than the recent ones, so those who usually don't pay Diamonds for the crappy prizes might have this time.

This part is true.

Again, except for the fact that this building is worth getting multiples of, while many in the past weren't.

And are the Diamond farmers who are also casual buyers likely to keep buying occasionally now that they're being squeezed this way? I doubt it.

Just to be clear, I am not in any way, shape or form bashing whale
 

CDmark

Well-Known Member
OK,
1) A change was definitely made, use of diamonds changed to $15 for the bonus track versus previous events. This bonus track is still relevantly new so not sure there are any "rules". To me, this falls in line with other changes made, CF abort limits comes to mind. Innos game, Innos rules.
2) The game is still F2P, that is still 100% true. With the bonus track going to $15, I consider it like a premium product offering, that is not F2P, you can still get the event building for free (may have to use a few free diamonds if your luck is bad). The Elves package is still "free", free meaning use of free diamonds you got during the game if you so choose.

Here is a good one, the Castle. L18 you get an expansion. Technically it is free, I plan to collect in spring of 2041. But, players buying diamonds can get there faster.

So, there are more rewards for those who pay, in our case, the bonus track, $15. I did pay but would have preferred to use diamonds.
 

Penegal

New Member
I have to agree with the OP, this year's event compared to other events during the year is Terrible.
I've used over 1000 stars and I can't even get to the second prize in the grand prizes?... am I doing something wrong or what?

2995 diamonds to open each Elves row of gifts is far too expensive, and as we all are in a massive Cost of Living Crisis, with supermarkets, online stores, Etc, bumping up prices, we also have games pumping up their prices too, kk, I know its a business and therefore here to make a profit, I believe you could still be generous while still making a massive profit.


Just over 1000 stars and I can't even get to the 2nd grand prize,... this is very dishearting and deflating to the point where I'm about done logging in and seeing this confusing and crushing event!
Untitledzzz.jpg

I'm on the brink of not logging in for the rest of the event,... I mean, all that TIME n WORK to gather 1000 stars, and Sod all in returns apart from a few lousy 10% attack bonuses or a few BP or FP, a handful of keys and a few extra stars.

Seriously, the Worst event I've ever come across!¬
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
I have to agree with the OP, this year's event compared to other events during the year is Terrible.
I've used over 1000 stars and I can't even get to the second prize in the grand prizes?... am I doing something wrong or what?

2995 diamonds to open each Elves row of gifts is far too expensive, and as we all are in a massive Cost of Living Crisis, with supermarkets, online stores, Etc, bumping up prices, we also have games pumping up their prices too, kk, I know its a business and therefore here to make a profit, I believe you could still be generous while still making a massive profit.


Just over 1000 stars and I can't even get to the 2nd grand prize,... this is very dishearting and deflating to the point where I'm about done logging in and seeing this confusing and crushing event!
View attachment 19965

I'm on the brink of not logging in for the rest of the event,... I mean, all that TIME n WORK to gather 1000 stars, and Sod all in returns apart from a few lousy 10% attack bonuses or a few BP or FP, a handful of keys and a few extra stars.

Seriously, the Worst event I've ever come across!¬
You need to read about how to play the mini-game.

1671909023188.png

On the main screen how many matches do you have? You are not using the matches to light the candles and make progress thru the city. As you can see, I have zero matches left. You probably have over 100
 
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