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Tier 1 trading stone/wine, marble, dye, or lumber

I don't understand how most everyone thinks that the commodity stone ='s, the value of lumber, dye, marble, and wine in Tier 1...The stone camp takes up 4x4 space whereas the others are 3x3. How can the land have no value, when everyone fights, trades, scouts, negotiates, buys, and whatever else one has to do to acquire an expansion in the building menu? A trade ratio of 3 stone for 4 of the other tier 1 goods, is fair; there is no argument against this fact. As well, from what I see from the trading, the stone good deposit is harder to come by...Just a few coins worth.
 
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DeletedUser2145

As well, from what I see from the trading, the stone good deposit is harder to come by.

That is not true. You can say it's harder to come by in your neighborhood/guild/friends, but with all the players out there, all goods are easy to come by.

The stone camp takes up 4x4 space whereas the others are 3x3. How can the land have no value, when everyone fights, trades, scouts, negotiates, buys, and whatever else one has to do to acquire an expansion in the building menu? A trade ratio of 3 stone for 4 of the other tier 1 goods, is fair; there is no argument against this fact.

Yes there is - chance. You get bonus for 2 out of the 5 goods per age, but the selection is random. So is obtaining Blue Prints, so are many quest rewards, etc. What I've always loved about Forge of Empires is that there's no "finite win" or good, almost all actions you take have a random outcome so you're only in advantage if you do many of those actions. But, back on track - so it was that you got a good that required more space. That's your opinion at which rate you want to set up trades, but in my view a BA trade is a BA trade.

Otherwise, you'll end up over-complicating things to a point of "Jeez why did I do this in the first place." Why? Because all ages have different sizes for their great buildings - so now tell me what the ratio should be between a trade of 3x3 BA goods building and a 3x4 IA goods building, and then a 4x4 BA goods buildings and a 3x4 IA goods building, a 3x3 BA with a 3x3 IA, a 4x4 BA with a 3x3 IA, etc. This easily gets out of hand - and can only be done on a larger scale, but it's still too complicated in my opinion. I'd just blame chance for leaving you with a bigger building and call it done. But that's just my 2 cents. ;)
 

DeletedUser4844

It's true that by the standard of pace stone is somewhat more valuable. This is reflected in the fact that people will have a small tendency to build the stone producing building a little after other goods producing buildings of the bronze age and get rid of it earlier. So there will be a little less stone on the market. Generally, it's close enough that people will charge the same 1:1 ratio of stone for other bronze age goods, but if someone wants stone fast (and it is more likely to happen with stone then the other BA goods) they will pay a premium for it. Also, people who do not adhere to the fair trqde system will tend to charge a bit more for stone then other goods.

But these are relatively marginal effects. The fact that it is a good you have the good deposit for makes a much bigger difference. a 4x4 buildings takes up 2.111 times the space of a 3x3 building,l but a good you don't have the goods deposit for takes 5 times as long to produce and costs 5 times the coins and supplies. Moreover, goods from higher ages not only costs twice or four times or 8 times as much and as long to produce, but they are also completely unavailable until you get to the tech that unlocks them, which occurs much later then BA goods, and most people won't make them until they have the goods deposit for them, which, again, takes much longer then getting the goods deposit for stone. That two times premium you pay may not seem that significant if you just look at costs for iron age goods versus space, but there are other factors involved that make it reasonable that stone is still considered roughly as valuable as the other bronze age goods.

The other factor is that, as folks go through the ages, everyone will get goods deposits for some goods which take extra spaces to build the manyfcaturing building for. Figuring out the exact ratios to charge for all goods based on that would be a real headcache, and taking all the previous factors into account would be impossible due to the max difference of 2:1, so people simplify the trading formula to generally ignore most differences other then the age the goods are from.

But, unless you are in a fair trade guild, feel free to charge whatever you want. If folks are desperate enough they will pay it, and if they don't pay it you can always lower your prices. It's a free market, unlike the real world.
 

DeletedUser2382

You'll see in later ages goods such as rope and paper being overproduced by this size ratio. Both taking up a 3x2 space while other goods of the era taking 2x the space or sometimes more. Basically what happens is the market gets flooded with them and they tend to lose value on the open market.
 
"Otherwise, you'll end up over-complicating things to a point of "Jeez why did I do this in the first place." phantom;25494]

As if FOE didn't complicate things by making the stone camp a 4x4, and all the others, 3x3...All bonuses, and everything else aside it just doesn't add up: (4x4)
≠ (3x3)
≠4


Yes there is - chance. You get bonus for 2 out of the 5 goods per age, but the selection is random. So is obtaining Blue Prints, so are many quest rewards, etc. What I've always loved about Forge of Empires is that there's no "finite win" or good, almost all actions you take have a random outcome so you're only in advantage if you do many of those actions. But, back on track - so it was that you got a good that required more space. That's your opinion at which rate you want to set up trades, but in my view a BA trade is a BA trade.

Otherwise, you'll end up over-complicating things to a point of "Jeez why did I do this in the first place." Why? Because all ages have different sizes for their great buildings - so now tell me what the ratio should be between a trade of 3x3 BA goods building and a 3x4 IA goods building, and then a 4x4 BA goods buildings and a 3x4 IA goods building, a 3x3 BA with a 3x3 IA, a 4x4 BA with a 3x3 IA, etc. This easily gets out of hand - and can only be done on a larger scale, but it's still too complicated in my opinion. I'd just blame chance for leaving you with a bigger building and call it done. But that's just my 2 cents. ;)[/QUOTE]

- - - Updated - - -

"a 4x4 buildings takes up 2.111 times the space of a 3x3 building": This may not be a big difference in the standard city, but I've taken a different approach to where space really does matter.

the standard of pace stone is somewhat more valuable. This is reflected in the fact that people will have a small tendency to build the stone producing building a little after other goods producing buildings of the bronze age and get rid of it earlier. So there will be a little less stone on the market. Generally, it's close enough that people will charge the same 1:1 ratio of stone for other bronze age goods, but if someone wants stone fast (and it is more likely to happen with stone then the other BA goods) they will pay a premium for it. Also, people who do not adhere to the fair trqde system will tend to charge a bit more for stone then other goods.

But these are relatively marginal effects. The fact that it is a good you have the good deposit for makes a much bigger difference. a 4x4 buildings takes up 2.111 times the space of a 3x3 building,l but a good you don't have the goods deposit for takes 5 times as long to produce and costs 5 times the coins and supplies. Moreover, goods from higher ages not only costs twice or four times or 8 times as much and as long to produce, but they are also completely unavailable until you get to the tech that unlocks them, which occurs much later then BA goods, and most people won't make them until they have the goods deposit for them, which, again, takes much longer then getting the goods deposit for stone. That two times premium you pay may not seem that significant if you just look at costs for iron age goods versus space, but there are other factors involved that make it reasonable that stone is still considered roughly as valuable as the other bronze age goods.

The other factor is that, as folks go through the ages, everyone will get goods deposits for some goods which take extra spaces to build the manyfcaturing building for. Figuring out the exact ratios to charge for all goods based on that would be a real headcache, and taking all the previous factors into account would be impossible due to the max difference of 2:1, so people simplify the trading formula to generally ignore most differences other then the age the goods are from.

But, unless you are in a fair trade guild, feel free to charge whatever you want. If folks are desperate enough they will pay it, and if they don't pay it you can always lower your prices. It's a free market, unlike the real world.[/QUOTE]
 
Another factor, for me, I put a stone building in a newly expanded parcel...Takes up the whole parcel. If it had been a 3x3 building, the next expansion over, would give me a 5x4 space, instead of another 4x4.
 

DeletedUser

I don't understand how most everyone thinks that the commodity stone ='s, the value of lumber, dye, marble, and wine in Tier 1.

thats because you just started playing the game, or other things im not allowed to say lol
 
thats because you just started playing the game, or other things im not allowed to say lol

Thanks Chief, just started playing, but ahead of you in the rankings, LOL! Be well, and best of luck; stop by Jamesville any time, Foghorn Leghorn points the way. I'll take you on personal tour to see how it's done, and have a brew on the house! -Harold

images


“You’re way off, I say you’re way off this time son!” :)
 
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DeletedUser

Thanks Chief, just started playing, but ahead of you in the rankings, LOL! Be well, and best of luck; stop by Jamesville any time, Foghorn Leghorn points the way. I'll take you on personal tour to see how it's done, and have a brew on the house! -Harold

lol you only got 9k points haha. i got 50k on Dworld bro, and my Cworld town is an experiment (diamond free run). but im pretty sure ill pass you up at some point on C anyhow.
 
lol you only got 9k points haha. i got 50k on Dworld bro, and my Cworld town is an experiment (diamond free run). but im pretty sure ill pass you up at some point on C anyhow.

IMO, FOE put the stone in 4x4 to help guide people into a standard geometric format, of 2x2 rows, 3x3 rows, and 4x4 rows I see in every city...Starting the game, FOE is very efficient at leading you the way, and that includes that particular geometric format. So far, my model is better.
Z
 
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DeletedUser2382

I'd have to somewhat go against phantom here, as in many ways I tend to agree with you jharold. Stone won't matter much in the long run as its just bottom tier stuff, but the point remains valid. In the end I've always favored free trade as opposed to "fair" trade for basically this reason. But in the end, if you don't think the stone is worth mining, no one's making you do that either, you have 2 deposits after all.
 
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