Winter Event 2022 Feedback

[Xenosaur]

@Pericles the Lion

You're still going to use lots of diamonds that you have or need to get. THE ONLY thing that's changed is that to UNLOCK less overall diamond use, you can't spend diamonds to do it anymore (like we used to do...), you need to NOW spend $15 cash (most likely PER WORLD you play).

It's a tectonic policy change in a game that's 10 years old, yes. The status quo has ALWAYS been that you buy diamonds or earn them, and that is the event and game currency for everything.

But this is an massive inflection point. They are opening the door to a new model for them and for us.

Everyone's gonna have decide on this themselves, or if the plethoria of things we USED to spend diamonds on, will ALSO turn to CASH only.

Is this dilution of the historic game currency? Yes. Manageable now - but dilution.

The bigger question is - How aggressive does this become? In other words, where do they take the cash policy and how diluted all the diamonds we've got stored, will get going forward.

Remember: You can play this event without using ANY CASH. It just costs you more diamonds to get what the cash unlocks to help expedite building acquisition.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It's a tectonic policy change in a game that's 10 years old, yes. The status quo has ALWAYS been that you buy diamonds or earn them, and that is the event and game currency for everything.

You're actually a little late catching on. Forge Plus already made this change to the game months ago.

 

[Xenosaur]

@Johnny B. Goode

Yes John, I'm aware of Forge+. However, let's not get down in the weeds on when this actually started. It's been rolled out in pieces all over the world,.

My point is - this is the first event on a server that I have access to in the USA, that is going to charge CASH for the premium rewards line. That's the point. I've also been told that some servers in Europe tried this for the Halloween event already, and while I trust the sources that played on and reported on them (beta players), I didn't know they were technically before us here in the USA. Inno is testing a lot of things all over the server world... but the point is again - the shift is that they are inexorably moving to more direct cash, less cash->diamonds->game purchases.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Remember: You can play this event without using ANY CASH. It just costs you more diamonds to get what the cash unlocks to help expedite building acquisition.

The quants will weigh in soon enough. Getting a complete Chocolatery requires obtaining 8 selection kits from the mini-game (let's not count the near impossible calendar). The 8th kit is at milepost #300 on Grand Prize continuum. In the past, INNO made it possible to get the fully levelled Event building without spending diamonds. Assuming this will be the case we can expect that there will be enough stars provided to get the 8th Selection Kit but nothing more. The point is that the Premium Prize list (at least in Beta) doesn't have a Selection Kit until milepost #440. So, unless something changes, players will need to spend diamonds to progress far enough on the Main Prize continuum to be at a point where the Premium prizes include the Selection Kit (at which point they will need to spend cash).

 

[Xenosaur]

In the past, INNO made it possible to get the fully levelled Event building without spending diamonds.

SO let's agree (folklore or not...) that in the "old days" of FoE, 90 out of 100 people found this to be true, without even trying, their event would resolve to a building "win". Let's face it - all you really had to do for early events was to show up every day... Gosh they were easy (especially with quants helping the community understand it...)

Now?

The math's been sharpened, considerably. The events are much more complex. For example, people howled and grumbled and couldn't figure out the complexity of first St. Patty's day event, for example. They'd complain they couldn't win, ergo - had to spend diamonds to attempt to do so. Who's fault is that?

Events have mini-game distractions that are fraught with danger and actual dead ends that suck the game currency to an inferior cause (or one of limited overall value), causing you to fail at your achievement of event objectives. Therefore, many players spend diamonds to recoup and reconstitute their event progress. In other words, the EVENT isn't a layup anymore.

Howver, Inno can still say this: The event still doesn't need ANY DIAMONDS..., and it wouldn't be a lie if 1 very lucky person out of 100 obtained a non-diamond spending "FREE" win.

Yet 99 people are gonna be upset but would never consider that it will be their own faults for lack of technical achievement or poor choices in the event that did them in.

I think we'll agree that the event design producing a FREE prize, isn't a layup anymore, and X out of 100 aren't getting the event buildings for free.

Just what constitutes the "truth" about "X" and about event achievement veracity and the FoE folklore + Inno's claim today and in history, is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[UBERhelp1]

The quants will weigh in soon enough. Getting a complete Chocolatery requires obtaining 8 selection kits from the mini-game (let's not count the near impossible calendar). The 8th kit is at milepost #300 on Grand Prize continuum. In the past, INNO made it possible to get the fully levelled Event building without spending diamonds. Assuming this will be the case we can expect that there will be enough stars provided to get the 8th Selection Kit but nothing more. The point is that the Premium Prize list (at least in Beta) doesn't have a Selection Kit until milepost #440. So, unless something changes, players will need to spend diamonds to progress far enough on the Main Prize continuum to be at a point where the Premium prizes include the Selection Kit (at which point they will need to spend cash).

You will have enough stars to get a fully leveled Chocolatery, as long as you get ~106 stars from incidents by my math. I don't care enough to do the math for how much the $15 "saves" you in terms of diamonds, as I don't think it should be bought. I have a video coming out about strategies for it tomorrow (if I can get it edited in time). Short version is though, monetization sucks, you should get between 10-11 daily specials (or more if lucky), and you'll get a full chocolatery.

 

[Xenosaur]

@UBERhelp1

Thanks for the work you do, the community really appreciates it

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

There is an important distinction this time. It is a direct cash sale moving the subscription cash grab into a straight up transaction. The distinction being that the former requires nothing to expire it except for you to stop paying it. The latter however is a permanent game piece that they would need to deliberately nerf to reduce its perceived value. They are moving into the realm of digital sales which is not covered in their TOS and protected by consumer laws. Interesting to see how bad Inno makes it for the ones that buy a bunch only to have Inno turn them into blacksmiths after the fact and once the sale is complete.

No distinction. Cash for game stuff. Whether it's boosts or buildings or whatever. It's paying cash directly rather than indirectly through Diamond purchases.

Yes John, I'm aware of Forge+. However, let's not get down in the weeds on when this actually started. It's been rolled out in pieces all over the world,.

Well, you're the one that called this instance the start, so...
And this statement is demonstrably incorrect:

My point is - this is the first event on a server that I have access to in the USA, that is going to charge CASH for the premium rewards line.

Unless you are unique, you have access to every server that Inno uses for FoE. Europe, Asia, wherever. That's why they call it the World Wide Web. Emphasis on World.
But I get it, the sky is falling. I'll get my tinfoil hat ready.

On a more serious note, my thought is that Inno made it too easy to get free Diamonds, and this is their attempt at a solution to less buying. Makes no difference to me. I won't be paying it, and if the game goes away I'll find something else to occupy my time.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

No distinction. Cash for game stuff. Whether it's boosts or buildings or whatever. It's paying cash directly rather than indirectly through Diamond purchases.

Well, you're the one that called this instance the start, so...
And this statement is demonstrably incorrect:

Unless you are unique, you have access to every server that Inno uses for FoE. Europe, Asia, wherever. That's why they call it the World Wide Web. Emphasis on World.
But I get it, the sky is falling. I'll get my tinfoil hat ready.

On a more serious note, my thought is that Inno made it too easy to get free Diamonds, and this is their attempt at a solution to less buying. Makes no difference to me. I won't be paying it, and if the game goes away I'll find something else to occupy my time.

I think that you are correct. They seem to have been nibbling at it around the edges (no more Wishing Wells as Dailies and the testing of a zero-attrition nerf in GBG). For very active players it is easy to get free diamonds.

 

[Dursland]

I agree with you Xerosaur, however you have to keep in mind there are those who farm 1,000 diamonds a day so could easily get multiple buildings without spending a dime. That's why this is a bad change on inno's part, it devalues diamonds.

Definitely worth buying the event pass if you want multiple buildings as it will save you diamonds but not so good for the heavy farmers.

 

[xivarmy]

Forget the emotion and minutia for a minute.

If you're trying to make a point BACK to INNO about THEIR new direction (and change in policy...) regarding spending cash vs diamonds for something, that's one thing.

But don't cut off your nose to spite your face - especially since this event is truly special.

We've been given a chance to "load the truck" with a building that SPAWNS other very desirous buildings and will do it INFINITELY. There is no time limits on this building, no charges that go to 0, and it NEVER STOPS doing this for you. It's NOT a temporary building, neither the parents NOR the children. They stay active in your city - for as long as your city stays active.

If you're a gamer in FoE - YOU WANT THIS building and just maybe - MORE THAN 1. <-- Don't lose sight of this objective!!

Can you get this without spending $15? Sure - it will THEN cost you MORE diamonds if you try to chase more than 1 of these, because you can't access the upgrade kits (selection kits) for the event building OR get a jump on the fragment totals you need for your first (and additional) NGs.

The additional event materials on the UPPER (aka Premium) track for $15 US as FINANCIAL LUBRICATION, will help you.

How much will it help you? I don't yet have the exact amount, but I'll give you an example while we wait for a few game quants ( @MooingCat , @xivarmy, @UBERhelp1 ) to run the numbers AFTER our LIVE EVENT opens...

Let's say that the $15 PREMIUM track purchase gives you access to enough upgrades and other materials so that you save 50% of the diamonds you'd spend for EVERY OTHER EVENT building you want to buy. Is that enough to convince you to spend the $15?

SO if you get your first Ted or Ketebo via normal event playing, to get your 2nd one you'd spend 15-18 K diamonds. This is without the $15 track purchase.

If you spend $15 dollar, the cost in diamonds goes down to 10-13 for Ted or Ketebo 2, 3, 4, .....


So decide - you want to be a player in this event and get more than 1?


DO it the hard way and spend more diamonds for each one, or spend $15, 1 time, get access to the top premium track, and get a 50% reduction (or whatever it works out being...) for your diamond expenses for building, 2, 3, 4, ..... X - for the entire event.

Make a NON-EMOTIONAL decision.

If you're going for 3+ Chocolateries, and can afford the pass, you should probably buy the pass (assuming the prizes in the top line are the same as at the end of beta where past some point there's 2 upgrades in the premium line every 4 grand prizes to go with the 2 in the bottom line).

2 is borderline (because most of the building will be done before you get to that region with double the grand prizes if you buy premium).

Just getting the 1 for free: nope.

 

[xivarmy]

I agree with you Xerosaur, however you have to keep in mind there are those who farm 1,000 diamonds a day so could easily get multiple buildings without spending a dime. That's why this is a bad change on inno's part, it devalues diamonds.

Definitely worth buying the event pass if you want multiple buildings as it will save you diamonds but not so good for the heavy farmers.

That's probably part of why they're making this decision - it increases the value of $ vs diamond-mining While still involving quite a bit of diamonds so it doesn't really devalue them much. Just amplifies their value if it comes from a player that will also spend real $ from time to time.

I make enough diamonds that it'd be hard for me to justify buying diamonds with $. But not so many that it'd be hard to justify spending $15 to make the diamonds i use go twice as far.

Not that I will be this time. My worlds I care about aren't in a place where this is the thing I want most in any of them. Rather I will be trying to pick up 1 chocolate factory everywhere (include worlds I often don't play events on), so that they can slowly improve themselves by just collection.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

The distinction is that one expires if you don’t pay it and the other is a permanent purchase.

First, that's splitting hairs. Both are one time purchases. Sure, the direct benefits of one expire, but then (as you know) very little in this game is permanent except some GBs. And you're not purchasing a GB. Bottom line is that my point was that this is not the first time they've introduced direct purchase of something in-game, and none of your hair-splitting changes that.

 

[UBERhelp1]

First, that's splitting hairs. Both are one time purchases. Sure, the direct benefits of one expire, but then (as you know) very little in this game is permanent except some GBs. And you're not purchasing a GB. Bottom line is that my point was that this is not the first time they've introduced direct purchase of something in-game, and none of your hair-splitting changes that.

I don't think the problem is that it's a direct purchase. The problem is that it is something that was available for diamonds, and no longer is. It's like if they decided you could only speed up siege camp building time if you paid direct money, and it became like $0.5 per building you speed up, and there was no way to spend diamonds on that anymore.

Instead of costing 2.5x as much as the equivalent diamonds, and taking away the ability to purchase with diamonds, I'd be completely happy if it cost the same amount ($15), left the 1200 price for the event pass, but the paid version also included event currency, maybe a couple kits for the chocolateries or nutcracker guardhouses. Like an event starter pack.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Some number of players will open up the Event window tomorrow morning to find that diamonds that they purchased, perhaps very recently, cannot be used to purchase the premium package as in the past. There was no advance warning whatsoever for those that did not experience this feature in the A/B test during the Halloween Event. I can't help but wonder how they will feel about this surprise.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Looks like the Elves' Workshop is replacing the Reindeer Sleigh, and you will have some say over what prizes will be part of it. That seems like a step forward that no one is mentioning.

I don't think the problem is that it's a direct purchase. The problem is that it is something that was available for diamonds, and no longer is.

And if I remember right, most players commenting about it in previous events didn't think it was worth the Diamonds. So the method of payment for it shouldn't be an issue, right? I mean, if it's not worth buying with Diamonds, it surely isn't worth buying with cash. So what's the big deal? (And I'm one that has actually spent the Diamonds on it in the past a few times.)

 

[Cyrus the Adequate]

Well, this is not a big surprise. Too many players have figured out how to build diamond mines, so Inno has to find ways to incentivize players to spend real $. The server farms aren't free, nor are the programmers.

Given the choice, I would gladly take a $15 charge for an optional event prize over forced ads.

 

[UBERhelp1]

Looks like the Elves' Workshop is replacing the Reindeer Sleigh, and you will have some say over what prizes will be part of it. That seems like a step forward that no one is mentioning.

And if I remember right, most players commenting about it in previous events didn't think it was worth the Diamonds. So the method of payment for it shouldn't be an issue, right? I mean, if it's not worth buying with Diamonds, it surely isn't worth buying with cash. So what's the big deal? (And I'm one that has actually spent the Diamonds on it in the past a few times.)

For me, I was actually seriously considering purchasing the event pass. The other ones didn't seem valuable enough for me, but I was thinking about getting multiple chocolateries and so wanted the extra chocolatery kits, but I'm not doing that now that it costs real money. It's also not necessarily just the event pass; if Inno changes this to be bought with cash instead of diamonds, what else might they change in the future? What if event currency can only be bought with cash? That's the main thing that I'm worried about; basically diamonds becoming less widely usable and moving away from a clear-cut free to play model compared to what we have now.

 

[xivarmy]

Looks like the Elves' Workshop is replacing the Reindeer Sleigh, and you will have some say over what prizes will be part of it. That seems like a step forward that no one is mentioning.

Kinda... a lot of people found "having a say" to be relatively meaningless - still being unable to craft a sleigh they felt worth buying because they were usually offered the choice between two things of no value to them. Sometimes being offered the same item for both choices.

If you *really* want past winter buildings you could maybe use the diamond rerolls reasonably to target it, but mostly I continue to label it as bait based on my limited experience on beta (filling it once without rerolls, and not buying it).

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It's also not necessarily just the event pass; if Inno changes this to be bought with cash instead of diamonds, what else might they change in the future? What if event currency can only be bought with cash? That's the main thing that I'm worried about; basically diamonds becoming less widely usable and moving away from a clear-cut free to play model compared to what we have now.

Well, that's the slippery slope theory and I always discount that because nobody knows what the future holds. Maybe it gets worse, maybe not. As far as buying things with Diamonds, pretty much the only things that would really signify moving away from a free to play model would be main game things like expansions, goods, healing troops, etc. Event currency? The only way free to play players would buy those with Diamonds is if they've been playing a long, long time and hoarding Diamonds, or they've gone to the trouble of establishing multiple Diamond farms. (Okay, maybe hardcore GBG players could, but that looks like it could be curtailed in the near future, so...) In almost 8 years of playing I think I've only bought event currency once or twice with Diamonds, and I've bought many Diamonds in the past as well as having several established Diamond farms.

And the talk about getting multiple event buildings is kind of ridiculous when you think about it. The combination of ongoing power creep, along with the limited space that we all have to deal with means that it's kind of shortsighted to spend much on multiples of one building, no matter how good it is. I do have duplicates of a few event buildings in one of my cities, but they were all gotten over multiple years' events and/or the Antiques Dealer, not by spending Diamonds in the events.