Goods for GB Goods Question

[mamboking053]

Question. Is it fair for a goods provider to ask for a specific good when swapping? From my understanding it is the FP that is being swapped for the higher-aged goods, not FP and goods. The goods the buyer offers is necessary to facilitate the transaction. So when I hear that certain buyers refuse certain goods I wonder if this is acceptable terms to everyone.

I understand the concept that technically it is fair if both parties consent, but I don't think any good guild or business allows laissez faire practice. They will usually have their terms clear and upfront on the matter to avoid the inevitable scoundrel or innocent mistake of someone offering a ridiculous trade or extorting people who don't know any better. In that sense, I'm asking if you would allow this type of trade or think that it is fair.

 

[DeletedUser]

Goods sellers are under no obligation to provide their goods at all. Therefore, they are entitled to ask for whatever terms they want...no one is obligated to accept those terms. If their terms are too stringent, they won't sell many goods. If a buyer is too picky in what terms they will accept, they won't get many goods. That's how a free market works. As far as "allowing" that type of trade, it is up to no one but the two players involved in the trade. It is not a guild matter, and it is not a game matter, it is strictly a player to player matter.

 

[mamboking053]

Goods sellers are under no obligation to provide their goods at all. Therefore, they are entitled to ask for whatever terms they want...no one is obligated to accept those terms. If their terms are too stringent, they won't sell many goods. If a buyer is too picky in what terms they will accept, they won't get many goods. That's how a free market works. As far as "allowing" that type of trade, it is up to no one but the two players involved in the trade. It is not a guild matter, and it is not a game matter, it is strictly a player to player matter.

I understand, but to you personally, do you think it's fair for the buyer to demand a particular good to be offered for an FP-for-goods trade? In other words, would you demand a particular good for someone if you are receiving fp for the goods you are selling?

 

[DeletedUser37581]

I understand, but to you personally, do you think it's fair for the buyer to demand a particular good to be offered for an FP-for-goods trade? In other words, would you demand a particular good for someone if you are receiving fp for the goods you are selling?

Yes, absolutely it is fair. It is up for me to decide if the proposed conditions are acceptable or not. But whether I accept the conditions or not, it is still fair.

 

[mamboking053]

Yes, absolutely it is fair. It is up for me to decide if the proposed conditions are acceptable or not. But whether I accept the conditions or not, it is still fair.

I'm probably wording this incorrectly... Would you accept these conditions yourself?

For instance, the rate for PE goods is 350 fp...in Zorskog at least. Maybe less by now... This seems to mean to me that the value of the goods being offered is already covered by the FP given by the seller. The goods that the seller will offer is not part of that transaction, it's simply offered to enable the transaction.

So if I were selling you PE goods and demanded that I only want particular goods - say LMA and up- would you, personally, agree to this?

 

[DeletedUser37581]

I'm probably wording this incorrectly... Would you accept these conditions yourself?

For instance, the rate for PE goods is 350 fp...in Zorskog at least. Maybe less by now... This seems to mean to me that the value of the goods being offered is already covered by the FP given by the seller. The goods that the seller will offer is not part of that transaction, it's simply offered to enable the transaction.

So if I were selling you PE goods and demanded that I only want particular goods - say LMA and up- would you, personally, agree to this?

Whether I would agree or not would depend on many factors. How badly do I want the PE goods? What age am I currently in? If I am in LMA and have an abundance of those goods, paying in LMA goods makes good sense to me.

But the goods demanded by the seller in trade for those PE goods is indeed part of the transaction. Some sellers will take any goods. Others want goods that are above a certain age. Some sellers are willing to take 1 lower age good for 2 upper age goods (1:2) while other sellers want 1:1.

As a buyer, I have the choice as to whether to accept the seller's terms or not. If I think the terms are unreasonable, I will look elsewhere. If I can't find anything elsewhere, I might have little choice but to accept the seller's terms no matter how outrageous they may seem to me.

 

[mamboking053]

Whether I would agree or not would depend on many factors. How badly do I want the PE goods? What age am I currently in? If I am in LMA and have an abundance of those goods, paying in LMA goods makes good sense to me.

But the goods demanded by the seller in trade for those PE goods is indeed part of the transaction. Some sellers will take any goods. Others want goods that are above a certain age. Some sellers are willing to take 1 lower age good for 2 upper age goods (1:2) while other sellers want 1:1.

As a buyer, I have the choice as to whether to accept the seller's terms or not. If I think the terms are unreasonable, I will look elsewhere. If I can't find anything elsewhere, I might have little choice but to accept the seller's terms no matter how outrageous they may seem to me.

Forgive the poor wording. Rather than is it fair, I was wondering how many people would accept these terms personally since, of course, any wild transaction is fair if it was mutually agreed upon. But by asking for a personal account, I get a better idea of what a person believes fair to be.

For instance, I've never been in a guild that allowed unfair goods trades- agreed upon or not. They could post their trades in the market, but they were not allowed to post unfair trades in the guild threads and this was to avoid problems that would result because of it. In-house sniping of GB's posted in threads by other guild members is not allowed- whether that person made a personal deal or not- because it was considered inherently dishonest. People who post to the threads are trying for the top spot and to invest overtime only to be undercut at once by a personal trade is kinda douchey. Similarly, I've never been in a trade where a person demanded a particular good so I always had the idea that it is the FP that is requested, and the goods are just necessary to make it happen.

 

[DeletedUser37581]

Forgive the poor wording. Rather than is it fair, I was wondering how many people would accept these terms personally since, of course, any wild transaction is fair if it was mutually agreed upon. But by asking for a personal account, I get a better idea of what a person believes fair to be.

If you play on multiple worlds, you will get an idea of how diverse various transactions can be. On one world, VF goods for a Himeji Castle might sell for 750 FPs, while on a different world, you might be lucky to find someone willing to sell for 1200 FPs and wanting ME goods or higher in trade at 1:1.

When the Himeji Castle first came out, there were people willing to pay 2350 FPs for a set of VF goods.

What is fair? What is acceptable to the buyer? It all depends on how badly the buyer wants the goods, I guess.

 

[DeletedUser38090]

Forgive the poor wording. Rather than is it fair, I was wondering how many people would accept these terms personally since, of course, any wild transaction is fair if it was mutually agreed upon.

I probably wouldn't tbh. I camp in Iron Age, so I obviously don't want to trade in goods that are beyond Iron Age.
I contacted roughly 100 people on J and asked them about CF goods deals, and I chose the least expensive. For my CF, I've gotten all sorts of prices, from 100 FP at the lowest, and 583 FP at the highest. Obviously I rejected everybody except the one who sold it at 100 FP, and all he wanted was me to put the 100 FP on his Arc, and I could trade any goods.

Goods selling, like @dontwannaname has said, is highly player dependent and world dependent, so the terms can be anything. Some prefer that you only put in 50 per level of a GB so you don't occupy a reward sport, while others don't really put a limit on FPs per level. Always ask around more than 50 goods sellers so you can find the best deal that works for you. Just be respectful when you want to reject an offer that's too much for you to handle.

 

[mamboking053]

If you play on multiple worlds, you will get an idea of how diverse various transactions can be. On one world, VF goods for a Himeji Castle might sell for 750 FPs, while on a different world, you might be lucky to find someone willing to sell for 1200 FPs and wanting ME goods or higher in trade at 1:1.

When the Himeji Castle first came out, there were people willing to pay 2350 FPs for a set of VF goods.

What is fair? What is acceptable to the buyer? It all depends on how badly the buyer wants the goods, I guess.

Got it. I think I see how unwieldy it is to set a standard to something as nebulous as "fair" or a concept like "value". "Let the buyer beware".

At first I wondered since a guild will regulate trades to fair-trade only, but there is no similar way to regulate goods trades concerning GB's, and fair trade regs isn't really effective either since the trades can be picked up in the market anyway.

 

[Algona]

I don;t see any problem with a seller wanting specific Goods. After all the buyer wants specific Goods as well.

I'm a firm believer that whether buyer or seller if you don't like the deal, walk away. There;s always more deals to be found.

So if I were selling you PE goods and demanded that I only want particular goods - say LMA and up- would you, personally, agree to this?

I always ask for a 1:1 trade of Goods of the buyer's current Era or 1 lower. I also demand we make the trades before I get paid. I extend credit, buyer can make daily installment payments up to 10 days.

i've sold somewhere close to 200 sets of Traz and CF Goods. Anywhere from free to Guildies up to 175 FP for folks I don't know. Fair? Heck, I dunno, but it works. I've never been screwed and I get a lot of return customers.

Would i ask for specific Goods? I don't need to, but, yeah, I might. Would i be upset of the buyer didn;t accept? No.

 

[mamboking053]

I probably wouldn't tbh. I camp in Iron Age, so I obviously don't want to trade in goods that are beyond Iron Age.
I contacted roughly 100 people on J and asked them about CF goods deals, and I chose the least expensive. For my CF, I've gotten all sorts of prices, from 100 FP at the lowest, and 583 FP at the highest. Obviously I rejected everybody except the one who sold it at 100 FP, and all he wanted was me to put the 100 FP on his Arc, and I could trade any goods.

Goods selling, like @dontwannaname has said, is highly player dependent and world dependent, so the terms can be anything. Some prefer that you only put in 50 per level of a GB so you don't occupy a reward sport, while others don't really put a limit on FPs per level. Always ask around more than 50 goods sellers so you can find the best deal that works for you. Just be respectful when you want to reject an offer that's too much for you to handle.

At first I said I wouldn't, but it depends.

I think I would if the seller lowered the FP price beneath market value, or maybe if there was some sort of understandable condition attached to it.

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand, but to you personally, do you think it's fair for the buyer to demand a particular good to be offered for an FP-for-goods trade? In other words, would you demand a particular good for someone if you are receiving fp for the goods you are selling?

Would I demand? No. I would ask. But I am almost always selling to someone to help them, not to make a profit.

When I am buying goods, I will go along with most reasonable requests as far as the goods go. However, I have only bought goods once when the seller demanded that I put no more than x number of FP on each of a several GBs. I won't do that again. Now if someone requests, I might go along with it, but if they're demanding it they are out of luck trying to sell to me. (I understand why they do it, so don't bother explaining their rationale to me, thank you very much.)

 

[mamboking053]

I don;t see any problem with a seller wanting specific Goods. After all the buyer wants specific Goods as well.

I'm a firm believer that whether buyer or seller if you don't like the deal, walk away. There;s always more deals to be found.



I always ask for a 1:1 trade of Goods of the buyer's current Era or 1 lower. I also demand we make the trades before I get paid. I extend credit, buyer can make daily installment payments up to 10 days.

i've sold somewhere close to 200 sets of Traz and CF Goods. Anywhere from free to Guildies up to 175 FP for folks I don't know. Fair? Heck, I dunno, but it works. I've never been screwed and I get a lot of return customers.

Would i ask for specific Goods? I don't need to, but, yeah, I might. Would i be upset of the buyer didn;t accept? No.

I kind of wondered if there was ever a point where it's too late to sell goods. For instance at one point in Zorskog it seemed like no one had an Arc and now it seems weird if a person doesn't have an Arc. I originally planned to be a seller of goods, but now I'm wondering if it's even profitable anymore outside of AF, VF, and eventually SA since at this time people mature to the point where they can either obtain these goods themselves or they are buying from a hundred other people capable of selling.

* At this point I'm understanding just how poor of an entrepreneur I'd be, lol.

 

[DeletedUser38090]

I kind of wondered if there was ever a point where it's too late to sell goods.

I could probably sell a Lighthouse kit to some poorly-connected Iron Age hoodies who need the goods for 50 FP, and on my secondary world, I'm price-flipping CF and Traz kits to around 50 FP less than the average price and selling it to hoodies. There's never really a late point to selling. It's just that you will be facing more competition, and you'll have to advertise yourself extensively to get more customers. Like any entrepreneurial task, it's going to take some effort.

 

[mamboking053]

I could probably sell a Lighthouse kit to some poorly-connected Iron Age hoodies who need the goods for 50 FP, and on my secondary world, I'm price-flipping CF and Traz kits to around 50 FP less than the average price and selling it to hoodies. There's never really a late point to selling. It's just that you will be facing more competition, and you'll have to advertise yourself extensively to get more customers. Like any entrepreneurial task, it's going to take some effort.

Indeed.

 

[Emberguard]

From my understanding it is the FP that is being swapped for the higher-aged goods, not FP and goods. The goods the buyer offers is necessary to facilitate the transaction. So when I hear that certain buyers refuse certain goods I wonder if this is acceptable terms to everyone.

low era goods are almost worth nothing. For every oceanic good you could get around 16k bronze age goods trading down. That's the main reason most players don't care what goods you give in return.

However there's no reason goods can't be part of the deal. You're buying goods off the seller. If they want to make it goods + FPs then that's totally fair. It's also fair as the buyer to decide whether those specific goods being asked are a high enough age to be worth asking if their price should go down a little. If the overall price is already lower then other sellers it may be that they've counted those goods as part of the payment and lowered the FP price anyway

 

[Emberguard]

For instance, the rate for PE goods is 350 fp [...]

So if I were selling you PE goods and demanded that I only want particular goods - say LMA and up- would you, personally, agree to this?

I'd give a counter offer. 250-300 FP and LMA goods -OR- 350 and the age of the goods needed to facilitate is my choice (bronze/iron)

 

[Goth Almighty]

I understand, but to you personally, do you think it's fair for the buyer to demand a particular good to be offered for an FP-for-goods trade? In other words, would you demand a particular good for someone if you are receiving fp for the goods you are selling?

So if I were selling you PE goods and demanded that I only want particular goods - say LMA and up- would you, personally, agree to this?

Personally, I absolutely would not accept a trade where the player who's getting the fps also determines what goods he should get back. If I am giving fps for specific goods on E world, the trades that I set up to facilitate the trade are always the lowest era goods I have and always at a rate where I get twice as many goods from my trading partner as I give. That's definitely considered an unfair trade, though. What's the ratio you're offering in return for fps?

 

[mamboking053]

Personally, I absolutely would not accept a trade where the player who's getting the fps also determines what goods he should get back. If I am giving fps for specific goods on E world, the trades that I set up to facilitate the trade are always the lowest era goods I have and always at a rate where I get twice as many goods from my trading partner as I give. That's definitely considered an unfair trade, though. What's the ratio you're offering in return for fps?

Unfair trades are usually concerning goods for goods, not fp and goods for goods.

Edit: I have seen alternatives to the fair trade, however, that make perfect sense to me. A 1:1.33 trade of paper for tar was definitely reasonable when considering the size of the buildings and just how much paper floods the market at that age.

What you described is exactly how I trade. I give the lowest amount of goods possible and from the earliest age possible.