Titan Goods

[jaymoney23456]

I disagree with that. I remember years ago when planting my first Arc it was routine to charge FPs for FE goods, because to get them I had to trade goods from many ages below Future, making them all "unfair" trades. I was getting far more in value than the goods I was trading away, so it was expected that FPs would be included in the transaction. No taking advantage there.

You must not have been in a very good guild. My first city was about 6 years ago and I got arc goods for free. The guild believed that getting players an arc that produces guild goods was a good strategy so the guild didn't feel the need to charge fp for them. This should be what every good guild does!

 

[jaymoney23456]

The point you are ignoring or glossing over is that these goods are expensive, as is leveling up to SAT age. And they are still in high demand. SAT players also need to produce enough for their own GB leveling. As the SAT GB'S get higher the goods (and FP's) get very expensive. There is a market for these goods and lower era members who choose to not age up, pay for them with FP's. The goods are only a necessary part of a trade and rarely do SAT players trade SAT goods for the purpose of obtaining lower era goods, unless there is a guild need or if they are heavy traders. Many sellers that I know, do not care what ratio or era the buyer is trading with. Others do change the ratio, based on the era of goods being traded. However, most are more interested in the amount of FP's they receive. They are sold at market rates. If one does not like the rate offered, they can either ask/look elsewhere or age up to SAT and produce them on their own. Or, just wait until the market is more favorable to the buyer.

Using terms like "greedy" and "taken advantage of", is very subjective on your part. Asking for FP's as part of a trade, is part of the game. Lower age players do not "need" SAT goods to play, survive or even thrive. To obtain them is optional, not required. We all play this game a little differently. Some have built their cities in a way that they intend to sell goods to others. That is how they play. Others enjoy taking their time in lower ages and don't want to age up quickly. Others are rushing through to the highest age available. When their paths intersect and one has a desire to build higher age GB's while inhabiting a lower age, they seek out those who can satisfy their desire. SAT players do just that. Some sell them and some give them away. Again, each plays the game how they choose to. Neither is right and neither is wrong. How are those who sell higher age goods any more "greedy" than those who want them without producing them? Or paying market rates for them? If someone asks for more FP's than the market supports, they will either lower the price or not sell them. Savvy buyers (which we should all be) will look elsewhere and the market will correct itself.

Playing the game differently from another does not mean they are greedy. It just means they are playing the game... differently.

Most good guilds will give out goods even titan goods to members. It strengthens the entire guild when doing so not just the players getting them. Sure there are likely guilds that don't do this but not sure why players would go to them given there are many who will not charge fp for any goods.

 

[Disgruntled Veteran]

What "fair trade" box do you refer to? Afaik, there is none in-game.

Not sure if it’s on browser, but it is on mobile…

 

[Disgruntled Veteran]

The point you are ignoring or glossing over is that these goods are expensive, as is leveling up to SAT age. And they are still in high demand. SAT players also need to produce enough for their own GB leveling. As the SAT GB'S get higher the goods (and FP's) get very expensive. There is a market for these goods and lower era members who choose to not age up, pay for them with FP's. The goods are only a necessary part of a trade and rarely do SAT players trade SAT goods for the purpose of obtaining lower era goods, unless there is a guild need or if they are heavy traders. Many sellers that I know, do not care what ratio or era the buyer is trading with. Others do change the ratio, based on the era of goods being traded. However, most are more interested in the amount of FP's they receive. They are sold at market rates. If one does not like the rate offered, they can either ask/look elsewhere or age up to SAT and produce them on their own. Or, just wait until the market is more favorable to the buyer.

Using terms like "greedy" and "taken advantage of", is very subjective on your part. Asking for FP's as part of a trade, is part of the game. Lower age players do not "need" SAT goods to play, survive or even thrive. To obtain them is optional, not required. We all play this game a little differently. Some have built their cities in a way that they intend to sell goods to others. That is how they play. Others enjoy taking their time in lower ages and don't want to age up quickly. Others are rushing through to the highest age available. When their paths intersect and one has a desire to build higher age GB's while inhabiting a lower age, they seek out those who can satisfy their desire. SAT players do just that. Some sell them and some give them away. Again, each plays the game how they choose to. Neither is right and neither is wrong. How are those who sell higher age goods any more "greedy" than those who want them without producing them? Or paying market rates for them? If someone asks for more FP's than the market supports, they will either lower the price or not sell them. Savvy buyers (which we should all be) will look elsewhere and the market will correct itself.

Playing the game differently from another does not mean they are greedy. It just means they are playing the game... differently.

It’s probably safe to say that most players in SAT are producing large amounts of goods per day. I’m not glossing over anything, I acknowledge the increasing cost of the tech tree while moving through each age. I’m also very aware of the cost of SAT GBs. The goods themself aren’t expensive, what you spend them on is. What you’re glossing over is that SAT players produce far more FP than lower age players. This is how you and the players you know are taking advantage. Charging FP is NOT part of the game. That standard was created by greedy players. If it were a part of the game you’d be able to add FP to trades directly in the market, but you can’t.

It’s funny how you say SAT players aren’t interested in lower age goods, then go on to give examples of how they are interested, Then you go full-blown wishy washy with how some players care and some don’t? But of course most care about FP! The players you play with must be a collection of greedy players, lmao The funny part is how you’re getting offended. You already stated multiple times that there are many different types of players. I have stated my opinion along with the fact that I have never had an issue getting trades accepted. Most importantly, accept without paying some ridiculous FP tax on top of trades.

SAT players charging FP are in fact greedier in your example/question. They choose to charge FP on TOP of trades. Lower age players might not be producing SAT goods, because they can’t, but they’re not getting goods for nothing either. Again, if charging FP on top of trades were part of the game there would be a way to add them directly to trades in the market. That nonsense was player created. Market rates are determined by the ratio between goods only, since there’s no function to add FP. Which means the market doesn’t support any amount of FP, regardless of what players ask for. All you’re referring to with charging FP is player side-deals. Which in my opinion equals player greed.

Returning to your point that there’s many types of players, I agree! There’s those that don’t take advantage and those that do. There are those who are fine with paying when asked and those who aren’t. Just because I think someone is greedy doesn’t necessarily mean that’s a horrible thing. To each their own.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

It’s probably safe to say that most players in SAT are producing large amounts of goods per day. I’m not glossing over anything, I acknowledge the increasing cost of the tech tree while moving through each age. I’m also very aware of the cost of SAT GBs. The goods themself aren’t expensive, what you spend them on is. What you’re glossing over is that SAT players produce far more FP than lower age players. This is how you and the players you know are taking advantage. Charging FP is NOT part of the game. That standard was created by greedy players. If it were a part of the game you’d be able to add FP to trades directly in the market, but you can’t.

It’s funny how you say SAT players aren’t interested in lower age goods, then go on to give examples of how they are interested, Then you go full-blown wishy washy with how some players care and some don’t? But of course most care about FP! The players you play with must be a collection of greedy players, lmao The funny part is how you’re getting offended. You already stated multiple times that there are many different types of players. I have stated my opinion along with the fact that I have never had an issue getting trades accepted. Most importantly, accept without paying some ridiculous FP tax on top of trades.

SAT players charging FP are in fact greedier in your example/question. They choose to charge FP on TOP of trades. Lower age players might not be producing SAT goods, because they can’t, but they’re not getting goods for nothing either. Again, if charging FP on top of trades were part of the game there would be a way to add them directly to trades in the market. That nonsense was player created. Market rates are determined by the ratio between goods only, since there’s no function to add FP. Which means the market doesn’t support any amount of FP, regardless of what players ask for. All you’re referring to with charging FP is player side-deals. Which in my opinion equals player greed.

Returning to your point that there’s many types of players, I agree! There’s those that don’t take advantage and those that do. There are those who are fine with paying when asked and those who aren’t. Just because I think someone is greedy doesn’t necessarily mean that’s a horrible thing. To each their own.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is one of Karl Marx's descriptions of communism.

Btw, SAT players have little need for goods other than SAT, SAJM, and a few SAV. The only use for earlier goods is trading them for other useless goods and/or donating them to Guild treasury (this is the same for you in SAAB where you little need for OF goods or earlier). This means that SAT players are trading valuable goods (needed to level GBs) for mostly useless goods. I am not trading my SAT goods because I need all of them for GBs but, if I did, I would certainly expect FPs as part of the trade. For me, that's "fair".

 

[Disgruntled Veteran]

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" is one of Karl Marx's descriptions of communism.

Btw, SAT players have little need for goods other than SAT, SAJM, and a few SAV. The only use for earlier goods is trading them for other useless goods and/or donating them to Guild treasury (this is the same for you in SAAB where you little need for OF goods or earlier). This means that SAT players are trading valuable goods (needed to level GBs) for mostly useless goods. I am not trading my SAT goods because I need all of them for GBs but, if I did, I would certainly expect FPs as part of the trade. For me, that's "fair".

Aaaannnnndddddddd, you know where I stand with your perception of “fair”. As you stated, there is a need for them. Having them on hand allows you to help lower age guildmates and of course keeping the treasury afloat. At least you’re not calling FP for goods a part of the game, that was introduced by players, not FoE. I can’t remember exactly where I’ve seen it, but Inno has turned down the request for FP to be part of trades. For a reason!

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Aaaannnnndddddddd, you know where I stand with your perception of “fair”. As you stated, there is a need for them. Having them on hand allows you to help lower age guildmates and of course keeping the treasury afloat. At least you’re not calling FP for goods a part of the game, that was introduced by players, not FoE. I can’t remember exactly where I’ve seen it, but Inno has turned down the request for FP to be part of trades. For a reason!

At the end of the day, what I think is "fair" and what you think is "fair" doesn't matter a whit. A goods for goods+FP trade is a transaction between two willing parties. Their definition of "fair" is all that matters.

Until the release of SAT, goods were not difficult to come by. Once enough had been obtained to manage the tech tree and enough stockpiled to address future needs on higher era tech trees, there was little need for any surplus. So, most players did not object to unfair trades that did not include the payment of FPs. SAT changed all that. I'll be interested to see if your opinion about selling goods changes when you reach SAT where there is never enough goods for players trying to level up the GBs.

 

[Graviton]

You must not have been in a very good guild. My first city was about 6 years ago and I got arc goods for free.

It was 8 years ago or so.

 

[Disgruntled Veteran]

At the end of the day, what I think is "fair" and what you think is "fair" doesn't matter a whit. A goods for goods+FP trade is a transaction between two willing parties. Their definition of "fair" is all that matters.

Until the release of SAT, goods were not difficult to come by. Once enough had been obtained to manage the tech tree and enough stockpiled to address future needs on higher era tech trees, there was little need for any surplus. So, most players did not object to unfair trades that did not include the payment of FPs. SAT changed all that. I'll be interested to see if your opinion about selling goods changes when you reach SAT where there is never enough goods for players trying to level up the GBs.

At least you’re no longer trying to call it “part of the game”. I’ll agree to disagree on the topic going forward. But if you do want it to be part of the game, then why don’t use see how Inno will respond by requesting it, lol

 

[Pericles the Lion]

At least you’re no longer trying to call it “part of the game”. I’ll agree to disagree on the topic going forward. But if you do want it to be part of the game, then why don’t use see how Inno will respond by requesting it, lol

I never said that it was "part of the game" because it's obvious. Selling goods for FPs is as much a part of the game as 1.9x threads and sniping.

 

[P C C]

Well, I disagree with you as well. It’s not the age difference that matters. It’s the ratio. If it were an unfair trade, you wouldn’t be able to create it while the “fair trade” box is checked. Player perception is what caused people to take advantage, not game mechanics.

But if you accept that a 2:1 ratio is "fair" for a difference of one age then it makes no sense that it is also fair across multiple ages. If I make a fair trade at 2:1 up one age and then another fair trade at 2:1 up a second age I have paid 4:1 net using fair trades for the same pair of goods as a single 2:1 across two ages, and you can't have both 2:1 and 4:1 fair simultaneously (setting aside the specific case of SAT goods' value). You may see that as player perception but to me it is mathematics

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

People in SAT need most of the goods for the GBs anyway. They get very greedy , very fast :

 

[Meat Butcher]

These Titan goods are needed to level not one but three of the Titan GB's past level 10.
I could not imagine asking a guild mate to sacrifice a level on his own Titan GBs to give me titan goods at what you are calling fair value.
You could give 20x the amount of Jupiter goods and it still would not be fair value.

Whoever gave you these goods you should just dump a few hundred FP's on one of their GB's, and send them a personal thank you for the next 4 Fridays.
and I am not talking a cut and paste thank you, I mean a different thank you paragraph each week.

 

[Meat Butcher]

People in SAT need most of the goods for the GBs anyway. They get very greedy , very fast :

View attachment 21454

That is an impressive Hydra Sharmon !!!!

 

[PJS299]

People in SAT need most of the goods for the GBs anyway. They get very greedy , very fast :

View attachment 21454

That is an impressive Hydra Sharmon !!!!View attachment 21458

That's pretty nice
This is in my Indy city - bought goods for 4k FP

 

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Yup, he likes to think that he is not taking advantage of his guildmates generosity but lets let him continue to think that he is not.
I will say that I am glad he is glad his city has been self sustaining for quite some time, and apparently does not need any external assistance to run itself.
That must free up a lot of time to focus on posting unfair trades to the guild.

You’re almost funny with your assumptions. The last time I made trades was months ago when a guild member offered to help. The time before that was 6 months ago to build my Hydra. When I built my Hydra I left my trades on the open market. People were free to accept or not. Personally I would’ve been fine waiting longer if they weren’t accepted. However, I have lots of players on my friends list that are in SAT. But ironically enough, after double checking, the person who gave me the most SAT goods to build my Hydra is currently in SPJM. Make that make sense. And if you ask anyone in my guild, I take trades all the time. Almost every day. Yet they’d struggle to say when they seen me create trades last as I don’t need to. I made the decision after building my Hydra to wait until I get to SAT to lvl it past lvl 10. Like many of you pointed out, they are costly and it simply makes sense to lvl it later while I continue lvling my other GBs.

These Titan goods are needed to level not one but three of the Titan GB's past level 10.
I could not imagine asking a guild mate to sacrifice a level on his own Titan GBs to give me titan goods at what you are calling fair value.
You could give 20x the amount of Jupiter goods and it still would not be fair value.

Whoever gave you these goods you should just dump a few hundred FP's on one of their GB's, and send them a personal thank you for the next 4 Fridays.
and I am not talking a cut and paste thank you, I mean a different thank you paragraph each week.

Yeah, you’re funny!

But if you accept that a 2:1 ratio is "fair" for a difference of one age then it makes no sense that it is also fair across multiple ages. If I make a fair trade at 2:1 up one age and then another fair trade at 2:1 up a second age I have paid 4:1 net using fair trades for the same pair of goods as a single 2:1 across two ages, and you can't have both 2:1 and 4:1 fair simultaneously (setting aside the specific case of SAT goods' value). You may see that as player perception but to me it is mathematics

What I accept as a “fair trade” is what the game mechanics allow. Of course you need to adjust the ratio depending on age of goods. However, the game mechanics allow for trades further apart than just one age to the next. Therefore it’s still fair, especially when the “fair trade” box is checked.

 

[Graviton]

What I accept as a “fair trade” is what the game mechanics allow. Of course you need to adjust the ratio depending on age of goods. However, the game mechanics allow for trades further apart than just one age to the next. Therefore it’s still fair, especially when the “fair trade” box is checked.

There is no way that trading 2:1 for previous age goods is the same value ("fairness") as a 2:1 trade involving goods that are several ages apart. That doesn't make any sense at all. The relative value of the goods involved is part of the equation that checking the little box doesn't factor in..

 

[Disgruntled Veteran]

There is no way that trading 2:1 for previous age goods is the same value ("fairness") as a 2:1 trade involving goods that are several ages apart. That doesn't make any sense at all. The relative value of the goods involved is part of the equation that checking the little box doesn't factor in..

Talk to Inno, as the mechanics are limited from 1:2 to 2:1 while allowing multiple age gaps. If it weren’t fair they’d restrict trades to only allow trades between one age to the next. Or they’d increased the ratio to account for age gaps. Oor they’d make it possible to create trades with FP to make-up the difference. But they haven’t done any, which seems like they haven’t for a reason.

Again, I don’t create trades very often, nor do I ask anyone to fill them when I did. All I originally stated at the beginning of all this, is that people can leave trades on the open market without having to pay an FP tax. There’s no obligation to anyone who takes trades on the open market.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Talk to Inno, as the mechanics are limited from 1:2 to 2:1 while allowing multiple age gaps. If it weren’t fair they’d restrict trades to only allow trades between one age to the next. Or they’d increased the ratio to account for age gaps. Oor they’d make it possible to create trades with FP to make-up the difference. But they haven’t done any, which seems like they haven’t for a reason.

Again, I don’t create trades very often, nor do I ask anyone to fill them when I did. All I originally stated at the beginning of all this, is that people can leave trades on the open market without having to pay an FP tax. There’s no obligation to anyone who takes trades on the open market.

If this was all you said you would not have gotten the pushback that you did. A line was crossed when you accused goods sellers of "taking advantage" of other players and that they were being "greedy".

 

[Disgruntled Veteran]

“just sayin, you don’t have to go out of your way to take advantage of lower age players. Just make sure that it’s a trade you’re willing to accept.”

My exact words that upset everyone was in response to.

you don't trade titan goods you sell them.

Which is where I disagree, still.

If this was all you said you would not have gotten the pushback that you did. A line was crossed when you accused goods sellers of "taking advantage" of other players and that they were being "greedy".

Selling goods rather than trading them will always be taking advantage as far as I’m concerned. I added greedy further on when all the pushback happened, I still stand by that also.

Takings tons of FP from lower age players can easily slow down their game far worse than a SAT player filling a trade.