Anyway, to get a Blue post on the gold cup silver cup thing

[Tharkunn]

Looking for an answer from the developers at Inno on the cup in GE starting out gray then turning Gold.
Some people get so bent out of shape if someone starts GE before the cup turns gold. Saying your effort won't count if you start before the cup turns gold, or that if you start before the cup turns gold you get grouped with stronger guilds.
Is there any truth to any of this?

ps Blue post denotes a post from the developers. Comes from another game in which the developers would answer questions or weigh in on debates. Their posts where always blue.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Saying your effort won't count if you start before the cup turns gold

I can tell you for sure that this is not true.

or that if you start before the cup turns gold you get grouped with stronger guilds.

Many people apparently believe this, but no player actually knows if it's true or not.

ps Blue post denotes a post from the developers. Comes from another game in which the developers would answer questions or weigh in on debates. Their posts where always blue.

Good luck getting a developer to post here. I doubt I've seen one in 7+ years of playing and posting. (Just because it happens that way on one game forum doesn't mean it will be that way here. They may not use the same forum software/provider.)

 

[Emberguard]

The developers have confirmed that your starting time is completely irrelevant. You're already paired before you get access to Guild Expedition

 

[Emberguard]

Many people apparently believe this, but no player actually knows if it's true or not.

If it were true then you'd consistently get the same results each time. You don't consistently get paired with non-starting Guilds if you don't start. That in itself proves the theory false.

-----

Anyway, the official criteria:

https://en.wiki.forgeofempires.com/index.php?title=The_Guild_Championships

Every week your guild will be grouped together with up to 7 similarly-sized random guilds from different worlds of your language version*.
[...]
There are a few participation rules. First of all, only guilds with at least 3 members who already got to Iron Age, will be taken into the Championships. Secondly, at least one member must have contributed to the previous Expedition of their current guild. If one of these requirements is not met, the guild can still take part in the Expedition, but will not participate in the Championships. At the end of the Expedition, the top 3 guilds will win a boost on top of the collected guild power. The winning guild gets +25%, the 2nd one gets 15% and the 3rd guild will be rewarded with +10%. Furthermore, those guilds will also get trophies that will be afterwards visible in the guild profile:

 

[Tharkunn]

Many people apparently believe this, but no player actually knows if it's true or not.

For me common sense flags it as false. The people that believe this state that 'stronger' guilds start right away and that Inno pairs these 'stronger' guilds with each other.
To me the only thing 'pairing guilds' that start before the cup turns gold does is pair guilds that have people who are up at 8am server time. It is no indication of which guild is stronger.
So logic puts the lie to the theory.

 

[The Lady Redneck]

When GE came out I was the leader in 9 different cities of a multi world guild. We decided to make 3 of them Hard line GE guilds capable of finishing within the first hour if required. We heard the rumor about starting too soon meant you would be up against stronger guilds. At that time the guild was in every world. So the founder said OK we will run our own test on this. So every world (Except the 3 hardline cities who hit the ground running every week) tried starting early one week then starting later the next. We did this for a month and all worlds found that it made no difference. Some weeks were hard, some were easy.

 

[Dominator - X]

Looking for an answer from the developers at Inno on the cup in GE starting out gray then turning Gold.
Some people get so bent out of shape if someone starts GE before the cup turns gold. Saying your effort won't count if you start before the cup turns gold, or that if you start before the cup turns gold you get grouped with stronger guilds.
Is there any truth to any of this?

ps Blue post denotes a post from the developers. Comes from another game in which the developers would answer questions or weigh in on debates. Their posts where always blue.

I do know that some guilds require all 4 levels to be completed every week. Some have competitive races every week to see who can finish first. As such, many start as soon as GE opens up. It never seems to hurt the total percentage output of the guild. IE, even though they start prior to the cup turning, they still get credit for every fight or negotiation. We also win the available prizes, including SC and HC rewards. It still increases your combat points and ranking points as well as your expedition points. So, the cups color seems to have little to no influence on anything but perception.

As far as the cup color influencing the guilds you get grouped with: This was floated a few years ago. We actually experimented with this theory for several seasons. We concluded that it had no discernible weight on the outcome of guilds we were grouped with. We saw the same basic pattern waiting as we did if we did not wait.

Some people will stick to rumors and push them as fact, though they have never tested them nor looked into their veracity themselves. I know you asked for INNO developers to respond and maybe they will, though I doubt it. You normally have to send in a ticket directly to INNO to get any response, rather than using the forum. I do not speak for them, but I can tell you from personal experience these GE rumors are just that; rumors. We have debunked them by testing, observing and documenting the results. But don't take my word for it. Have your guild test it themselves over the course of several GE weeks. If they are confident in their belief, they should have no problem with putting the controversy to bed by showing everyone, in real time, how it influences the outcome.

 

[Tharkunn]

If it were true then you'd consistently get the same results each time. You don't consistently get paired with non-starting Guilds if you don't start. That in itself proves the theory false.

Up till now I had never looked at the cup while it was silver. Someone said the guilds you get paired with is decided before GE even opens. So I looked while it was silver to see and it would not let me look. Which kind of indicated that the pairing had not taken place yet. Supporting the theory that something that happens in that first 1/2 hour is used to make the pairings.
I did again look as soon as the cup turned gold on 3 different worlds. Saw 3-4 guilds had all started with a significant score already and 3-4 guilds with zero's and thought what you say above. If stating right away grouped you with other guilds that started right away all the guilds should have started.
Those 3-4 guilds that had not started where getting ripped if they had held off in order to get grouped with other guilds that had not started.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Up till now I had never looked at the cup while it was silver. Someone said the guilds you get paired with is decided before GE even opens. So I looked while it was silver to see and it would not let me look. Which kind of indicated that the pairing had not taken place yet. Supporting the theory that something that happens in that first 1/2 hour is used to make the pairings.

Or it means that they just don't show the pairings immediately for some undetermined reason known only to them. Any other explanation is purely speculation and means nothing.

I did again look as soon as the cup turned gold on 3 different worlds. Saw 3-4 guilds had all started with a significant score already and 3-4 guilds with zero's and thought what you say above. If stating right away grouped you with other guilds that started right away all the guilds should have started.
Those 3-4 guilds that had not started where getting ripped if they had held off in order to get grouped with other guilds that had not started.

Again, pure speculation. You are making connections that are not at all supported by real data. Especially since in both cases you're looking at one instance out of thousands and drawing conclusions. Never a good idea.

 

[matthew patton]

we have all week to do. I do it in 4 days. under age units for Ge lvl 1 . negots for lvl 4. more score with negots. Stick all Ge fp on temple.

 

[Tharkunn]

Well things have definitely taken a turn for the worse. I am now in a guild that insists we all wait until 9:30 am server to enter GE to ensure we get a good match up. Where does 9:30 come from? The cup turns gold at 8:30.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Well things have definitely taken a turn for the worse. I am now in a guild that insists we all wait until 9:30 am server to enter GE to ensure we get a good match up. Where does 9:30 come from? The cup turns gold at 8:30.

This guild rule is silly. Even if this theory was correct, waiting until 9:30 matches the guild up with what? Other guilds, including perhaps other top contenders, that waited until 9:30? Just silliness. Your options are simple, wait until 9:30 as directed or find another guild. Presuming that your guild offers decent benefits to its members waiting seems painless even if it is silly.

 

[Xenosaur]

Yes,and some people still believe they have control of the spinning pirate's wheel in the current event, and can stop it directly on the prize they want - they SWEAR to it. Tell them it's just a tuned video animation to give you a more authentic experience, and they discount that explanation.

It's hard to convince people that underneath the viral folklore that rampantly circulates and is embraced by some guild leadership that you WILL NOT start GE until that cup turns non-gray (or else you will be summarily booted...), authentic implementation for how this is all done - and it's not smoke and mirrors. Many of us that write code for some of these exact functions really DO know what's going on and how it's done.

We don't need Inno engineering to tell us what we already know.

SO why does it take "15-30" minutes to give you personally the reality that already exists? Because it's more than just the computation math of who your competition is, it's the broadcast to you and a few hundred thousand (probably a lot more since dormant guilds with as few as 3 people have to still get competitive pairings..) people in all worlds - as well.

If they do the competitive pairing math anytime before GE opens (8 am sharp), they run the risk of a guild folding or becoming non-viable - and then they give you an empty competitive slot/stub, that in real-time, doesn't exist. At least when they pair you it did, so they will have to deal with it afterwards if it folds (and gets deleted).

It's more fun to speculate (or test??) if someone in A world gets their GE competitive assigments a few minutes after GE opens, while someone in Z world get their's later (ie, the reporting to the clients goes by alpha sort...)

As well, there are servers and players all over the world, and this takes time - for transmission and confirmation (ack or nak).

That's why it's not immediate... organizational design considerations, and communication time.

PS: The same design protocol (cousin) is used in GbG, which doesn't show it's pairing EXACTLY @ 8am either. In fact GbG has a shorter lag opening, because I think they start pushing to clients from DIAMOND down to Copper.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

Yes,and some people still believe they have control of the spinning pirate's wheel in the current event, and can stop it directly on the prize they want - they SWEAR to it. Tell them it's just an tuned video animation to give you a more authentic experience, and they discount that explanation.

It's hard to convince people that underneath the viral folklore that rampantly circulates and is embraced by some guild leadership that you WILL NOT start GE until that cup turns non-gray (or else you will be summarily booted...), authentic implementation for how this is all done - and it's not smoke and mirrors. Many of us that write code for some of these exact functions really DO know what's going on and how it's done.

We don't need Inno engineering to tell us what we already know.

SO why does it take "15-30" minutes to give you personally the reality that already exists? Because it's more than just the computation math of who your competition is, it's the broadcast to you and a few hundred thousand (probably a lot more since dormant guilds with as few as 3 people have to still get competitive pairings..) people in all worlds - as well.

If they do the competitive pairing math anything before GE opens (8 am sharp), they run the risk of a guild folding or becoming not-viable - and then they give you an empty competitive slot/stub, that in real-time, doesn't exist. At least when they pair you it did, so they will have to deal with it afterwards if it folds (and gets deleted).

It's more fun to speculate (or test??) if someone in A world gets their GE competitive assigments a few minutes after GE opens, while someone in Z world get their's later (ie, the reporting to the clients goes by alpha sort...)

As well, there are servers and players all over the world, and this takes time - for transmission and confirmation (ack or nak).

That's why it's not immediate... organizational design considerations, and communication time.

PS: The same design protocol (cousin) is used in GbG, which doesn't show it's pairing EXACTLY @ 8am either. In fact GbG has a shorter lag opening, because I think they start pushing to clients from DIAMOND down to Copper.

When I had two worlds , one in SAJM Diamond and the other in HMA Gold the Diamond always opened up a minute or two before the Gold GbG

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

People believed all sorts of stuff was true and bet their lives on it. The Earth was flat. The Earth was the center of the universe. etc. So the magical thinking that players have control over pairings is nothing new i that context. Belief is a strange thing.
Even though I knew the Pirate's wheel spin meant nothing, I still behaved as if it did. That made it more fun for me. So life goes on...
There are as mentioned, many odd beliefs on being able to manipulate results in Foe. Fun to read about them.


On the Diamond/Gold open first. Since it was two separate Worlds, the World and not the level may have been the reason. Just sayin'