Do something about Rogue armies

[DeletedUser]

I'm surprised no one has recommended defensive armies.

The best way to defeat the 1+7 combination is to have 5 AA and 3 heavies. Any ratio could be effective but I find that works "most" times. If the "terrain" is in your favor you will take zero losses, assuming attack and defense is with 100 boost or so. This is especially effective when the screen stretches to 1.5 ratio and man made impediments are in use, in PE.

This is also very effective if your attacker "auto-battles". The AI,will send the non-rogue unit out too far. Then your AA takes it out leaving the rogues with no unit to transition to.

In other era's, other combinations may be more effective. 8 heavy in CE, for instance.

What are you talking about? What unit is the "AA"? Are you talking about Artillery? Because Artillery is not abbreviated "AA". AA means Anti-Aircraft, and the Anti-Aircraft Vehicle doesn't show up until CE, which 3 ages past PE, so it can't be "effective" in PE or earlier. If you're talking about 5 Artillery and 3 Heavies, then you're wrong anyway. I'll take out that lineup every time with the 1+7 attack combo. Every. Time.

As far as your opponent auto-battling as you suggest, only an idiot would attack like that. Any intelligent player who uses the 1+7 knows not to auto-battle if their regular unit moves first.

I can also say from experience that 8 heavy in CE is not the best defense, and will usually not win against 1 AAV + 7 Rogues. 8 CE Champions is the best defense in CE. In fact, it's the only age I've found where Champions are actually useful.

P.S.: If you are talking about Artillery, then even if the non-Rogue unit moves first, the Artillery will still hit the Rogues first if they can.

 

[Salsuero]

it's the only age I've found where Champions are actually useful.

I'm enjoying them in Colonial. They were fairly mediocre before Colonial, but they have the same stats as Heavy units do now and that makes them very useful to me given their added boost. I've basically been going with a Champion to accompany my Rogues almost exclusively now. Manually battle, hold back my Champion (maybe stick him in a corner, depending on the terrain), send all the Rogues forward... I auto-battle the remainder of the fight and often never even take a single hit to my original (real) Champion, but even when I do, he rarely gets killed. However, having an Alcatraz pumping out Rogues and Champions makes it a pretty effective combination, even if I do lose a few Rogues and a Champion once in a while. I'm not saying they're CE effective (especially since I've never been in CE)... but I find them plenty useful just the same.

 

[ahsay]

What are you talking about? What unit is the "AA"? Are you talking about Artillery? Because Artillery is not abbreviated "AA". AA means Anti-Aircraft, and the Anti-Aircraft Vehicle doesn't show up until CE, which 3 ages past PE, so it can't be "effective" in PE or earlier. If you're talking about 5 Artillery and 3 Heavies, then you're wrong anyway. I'll take out that lineup every time with the 1+7 attack combo. Every. Time.

OMG I abbreviated Art AA. My apologies.

I'll play. What Def would you recommend; against the 1+7? Art, light or heavy gives me the most fits. This comes from someone who, until 3 months ago, plundered consistently in 3 worlds for 5 years with over 20k battles.

As far as your opponent auto-battling as you suggest, only an idiot would attack like that. Any intelligent player who uses the 1+7 knows not to auto-battle if their regular unit moves first.

My bad...an idiot has never played this game...what was I thinking?

I can also say from experience that 8 heavy in CE is not the best defense, and will usually not win against 1 AAV + 7 Rogues. 8 CE Champions is the best defense in CE. In fact, it's the only age I've found where Champions are actually useful.

I can also say that from experience that you are wrong. 8 Champions in CE is 8 heavy...duh? Yah...might want to look that up. You can do that by holding your cursor over the unit, that will tell you a lot of info including Champions are heavy units.

Champs my not do much in Def but they're key to attacking.

P.S.: If you are talking about Artillery, then even if the non-Rogue unit moves first, the Artillery will still hit the Rogues first if they can.

Yes you're right but the key is, If they can. I'll say again...IF...they can.

BUT...that can't be all that significant; according to you; since you did say, "As far as your opponent auto-battling as you suggest, only an idiot would attack like that. Any intelligent player who uses the 1+7 knows not to auto-battle if their regular unit moves first."

 

[Agent327]

I can also say that from experience that you are wrong. 8 Champions in CE is 8 heavy...duh? Yah...might want to look that up. You can do that by holding your cursor over the unit, that will tell you a lot of info including Champions are heavy units.

You should have doen that yourself. Up until Postmodern Champs are fast units. In Postmodern they change to heavy units. In Postmodern the Heavy is better than the Champ. In Contemporary that changes. Champ as a heavy has much betterr stats than the Heavy. In Postmodern they still have, but since the Heavy has stealth it is better than the Champ.Contemporary is the only era where the Champ is a better heavy than the real Heavy.

For the rest I'll sit back and just watch how your comments will be taken apart and you will be served egg on your face.

 

[ahsay]

You should have doen that yourself. Up until Postmodern Champs are fast units. In Postmodern they change to heavy units. In Postmodern the Heavy is better than the Champ. In Contemporary that changes. Champ as a heavy has much betterr stats than the Heavy. In Postmodern they still have, but since the Heavy has stealth it is better than the Champ.Contemporary is the only era where the Champ is a better heavy than the real Heavy.

For the rest I'll sit back and just watch how your comments will be taken apart and you will be served egg on your face.

All I said is that in CE champs are heavy units. "8 Champions in CE is 8 heavy...duh?" Which is true. Or do you dispute that?

Who cares about PME or any other age...not mentioned?

 

[DeletedUser31499]

I’m in CE and do a lot of fighting in GBG. My go to unit is 2 Champions and 6 rogues and I autofight. I can autofight up to attrition level 40 where I need to fight by hand up to attrition level 65-70. I use 2 champs instead of 1 so I don’t get burned when autofighting plus it helps when it’s a 2 stage fight.

Yes, CE champs are heavy units. I chose them over tanks. Champs have better stats than tanks except for colloidal armor. I just feel their boosted stats makes them better than CE tanks. The downside is they can take a day to heal vs 4 hours for a tank.

 

[Salsuero]

This comes from someone who, until 3 months ago, plundered consistently in 3 worlds for 5 years with over 20k battles.

Relevancy? I have over 15k+ in battles in just 3-1/4 years of play and hardly ever plunder anyone. That doesn't mean you have a better sense of strategy or overall gameplay. It just means you fight your hood far more than I do (and plunder them when you win).

Who cares about PME or any other age...not mentioned?

I mentioned Colonial Age. Just saying.

 

[Salsuero]

I’m in CE and do a lot of fighting in GBG. My go to unit is 2 Champions and 6 rogues and I autofight. I can autofight up to attrition level 40 where I need to fight by hand up to attrition level 65-70. I use 2 champs instead of 1 so I don’t get burned when autofighting plus it helps when it’s a 2 stage fight.

In Colonial, especially when it's a two-wave battle, I use a Champion and a Heavy most of the time. I never straight-up auto-battle whether a one-wave or two-wave battle just because it usually wipes out my Champion, but I could if I didn't mind losing a bunch of them (say if we're in a hurry to take down a territory before an opponent does), since I never use attached units and have a decent Alcatraz pumping out more than I lose daily. As I said before, I prefer to hold back my Champion, send the Rogues (and Heavy in two-wave battles) forward, and then auto-battle to the finish. It's a little slower than a straight-up auto-battle, of course... but definitely not as slow as a fully manual fight. I rarely lose my Champion (or Heavy) doing that. But definitely agree with using 2+6 when it comes to the two-wave battles... especially if auto-battling.

 

[ahsay]

Relevancy? I have over 15k+ in battles in just 3-1/4 years of play and hardly ever plunder anyone. That doesn't mean you have a better sense of strategy or overall gameplay. It just means you fight your hood far more than I do (and plunder them when you win).

So, you may not be as familiar with defenses you like or don't like to see, when plundering. Just saying.

Which brings me to, I'm not sure what you're talking about? The more you battle the more experience in battle you have. The more cooking you do the more experience you have. What am I missing here?

I was simplifying. My actually battle stats is 50k, in 5 years, over 4 worlds; so yeah...I'm qualified to speak on battles and defensive deployments. Just saying.

Experience means nothing? Just saying.

I mentioned Colonial Age. Just saying.

That's fantastic but you weren't even involved in this. The comment was to one specific player in one specific age. Sheeeeeesh.

 

[ahsay]

Forgive me for being the only player to recommend defensive deployments that could help a player trying to defeat a 1+7 attack when being plundered.

Since I'm obviously wrong. What recommendations do the rest of you have?

 

[DeletedUser]

I can also say that from experience that you are wrong. 8 Champions in CE is 8 heavy...duh? Yah...might want to look that up. You can do that by holding your cursor over the unit, that will tell you a lot of info including Champions are heavy units.

Champs my not do much in Def but they're key to attacking.

And I can say from experience that you're the only player I can remember who conflates regular heavies with Champions...or regular fast units with Champions in earlier eras. Even @tuckerkao knows the difference between a regular unit and a special unit. Do you also mean Rogues when you say light? And since you are lumping all heavies together in your mind, I choose to interpret your advice to mean that 8 Color Guard are also to be included in your definition of a defense that is "very effective". Right? After all, they're heavies. So by all means, go ahead and use 8 Color Guard...or 8 Assault Tanks. And I'll use 8 CE Champions. Want to bet who gets beat more often?

 

[ahsay]

I’m in CE and do a lot of fighting in GBG. My go to unit is 2 Champions and 6 rogues and I autofight. I can autofight up to attrition level 40 where I need to fight by hand up to attrition level 65-70. I use 2 champs instead of 1 so I don’t get burned when autofighting plus it helps when it’s a 2 stage fight.

Yes, CE champs are heavy units. I chose them over tanks. Champs have better stats than tanks except for colloidal armor. I just feel their boosted stats makes them better than CE tanks. The downside is they can take a day to heal vs 4 hours for a tank.

I do the same thing but according to shanks we're both "idiots". Every once in a great while I'll lose the entire army doing that. It's the price I occasionally pay for speed.

I will say that there are differences in all fighting, GBG, GE, Plundering and GvG. I do all 4. It's minor differences but they are there.

 

[ahsay]

And I can say from experience that you're the only player I can remember who conflates regular heavies with Champions...or regular fast units with Champions in earlier eras. Even @tuckerkao knows the difference between a regular unit and a special unit. Do you also mean Rogues when you say light? And since you are lumping all heavies together in your mind, I choose to interpret your advice to mean that 8 Color Guard are also to be included in your definition of a defense that is "very effective". Right? After all, they're heavies. So by all means, go ahead and use 8 Color Guard...or 8 Assault Tanks. And I'll use 8 CE Champions. Want to bet who gets beat more often?

Yet you still have no recommendations on defensive deployments that could defeat a 1+7 attack.

Attack me all you want but you, most of all, are here to help. Let's hear it...what defense do you like to defeat a 1+7 deployment?

 

[DeletedUser]

Yet you still have no recommendations on defensive deployments that could defeat a 1+7 attack.

Attack me all you want but you most of all are here to help. Let's hear it...what defense do you like to defeat a 1+7 deployment?

The only defense that is successful against 1+7 deployment is a very large defense boost, with at least some attack boost for your defense, too. And even that is not successful if the attacker has a reasonably high attack boost. I have had the 8 CE Champions defense defeated when I had over 500% defense boost with a significant attack boost to go with it. And the 8 CE Champions defense is better than any defense up to and including CE. So the answer to your question is that there is no defense against 1+7 except having much, much higher defense army boosts than the attacking army's boosts. And I'm talking at least 2 times the boost, if not more.

I do the same thing but according to shanks we're both "idiots". Every once in a great while I'll lose the entire army doing that. It's the price I occasionally pay for speed.

Nope, wrong again. You referred to an attacker who auto-battles against Artillery (AA, as you referred to it in your post) and his unit goes out first and gets destroyed by the Artillery. Here's the line from your post:

This is also very effective if your attacker "auto-battles". The AI,will send the non-rogue unit out too far. Then your AA takes it out leaving the rogues with no unit to transition to.

Later, I said that if your "AA" really meant Artillery, then you were still wrong because the Artillery would still take out the Rogues if they could be reached. And both you and the person you're quoting above are referring to CE battles. In CE battles, the Artillery would definitely hit the Rogues before the Champs except in rare instances where their movement is severely restricted by terrain. And in my over 5 years of playing and much of that in CE, I can say with confidence that it is rare for the CE Missile Artillery to end up being that restricted.

 

[ahsay]

The only defense that is successful against 1+7 deployment is a very large defense boost, with at least some attack boost for your defense, too. And even that is not successful if the attacker has a reasonably high attack boost. I have had the 8 CE Champions defense defeated when I had over 500% defense boost with a significant attack boost to go with it. And the 8 CE Champions defense is better than any defense up to and including CE. So the answer to your question is that there is no defense against 1+7 except having much, much higher defense army boosts than the attacking army's boosts. And I'm talking at least 2 times the boost, if not more.

I agree on boost. But you'd be wrong that a good deployment doesn't help. Here's some reasons why.

Speed. You got five minutes and you decide to plunder. Sometimes you don't put the second unit in, either on purpose of by mistake and you auto. Yes that's a bad move but it happens.

Arrogance. I've hit this guy for days now I know his army is worthless...boom goes the dynamite. They added a new deployment, as said earlier, if I don't take into account the terrain or other factors his 3 heavy, 5 art could kill me.

Lower level attacks. I routinely attack with armies 2 to 3 ages below so I can win lower level PvP towers. So your 3heavy/light 5 Art could now defeat my CA troops hitting your PE army.

Lastly, what is the most effective deployment? You may not win but you want cause as much damage as possible? Sure in CE you may defeat my 8 heavies but I will cause much damage to your 1AAV+7 rogues and you will have to battle me manual to defeat me. I now waste your time and your troops.

All I said is the the defensive deployment the causes me the most anxiety(fits) is the 5 Art, 3 Heavy/light deployment. Since I plunder almost every day in two worlds now...I'd hope that someone could use that experience. According to you...I couldn't be more wrong.

 

[ahsay]

And I can say from experience that you're the only player I can remember who conflates regular heavies with Champions...or regular fast units with Champions in earlier eras. Even @tuckerkao knows the difference between a regular unit and a special unit. Do you also mean Rogues when you say light? And since you are lumping all heavies together in your mind, I choose to interpret your advice to mean that 8 Color Guard are also to be included in your definition of a defense that is "very effective". Right? After all, they're heavies. So by all means, go ahead and use 8 Color Guard...or 8 Assault Tanks. And I'll use 8 CE Champions. Want to bet who gets beat more often?

Nope...I simply said champions in CE are heavies. They are.

I never addressed other ages. Nor did I address any other units. And only you and your post.

My only goal was to offer a generally effective defensive deployment and possible exception to that. Anything else is not intended.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree on boost. But you'd be wrong that a good deployment doesn't help. Here's some reasons why.

None valid. Here's why.
The question is what defense can be successful against 1+7. All of your examples depend not on the defense, but on a mistake by the attacker. So your point is not proven by your examples. In some cases, changing the defensive lineup can be effective against a careless attacker, but the attacker being careless (or hasty or arrogant) isn't something you can depend on. And your example of blindly attacking with lower level troops is pretty much irrelevant, because that's...well, I'm sure you can guess what I think of doing that.

Lastly, what is the most effective deployment? You may not win but you want cause as much damage as possible? Sure in CE you may defeat my 8 heavies but I will cause much damage to your 1AAV+7 rogues and you will have to battle me manual to defeat me. I now waste your time and your troops.

Yeah, well. In CE, I would defeat your 8 heavies with my 1 AAV+7 Rogues and not care about a few losses. When I'm in CE, I use that lineup extensively, so I only produce AAVs and/or Rogues with my Alcatraz. Therefore, any losses less than a complete defeat are irrelevant. And counting on the attacker not wanting to use the time to battle manually is not a very effective defense strategy.

Nope...I simply said champions in CE are heavies. They are.

You said that in response to my post that corrected your statement that 8 "heavies" are the best CE defense. Every player I know refers to regular heavies when using that term, and when meaning Champions, they say "Champions". So trying to backtrack on your original statement about 8 CE heavies being the most effective defense isn't working here. Especially since you are now ignoring the fact that since Color Guards are also classified as heavy units, your original statement could logically be construed as meaning any combination of Assault Tanks, Champions and/or Color Guards. Nice try, though.

My only goal was to offer a generally effective defensive deployment and possible exception to that.

And my only goal was to correct your incorrect advice, so that unwitting readers won't be led astray by it.

 

[ahsay]

None valid. Here's why.
The question is what defense can be successful against 1+7. All of your examples depend not on the defense, but on a mistake by the attacker. So your point is not proven by your examples. In some cases, changing the defensive lineup can be effective against a careless attacker, but the attacker being careless (or hasty or arrogant) isn't something you can depend on. And your example of blindly attacking with lower level troops is pretty much irrelevant, because that's...well, I'm sure you can guess what I think of doing that.

Yeah, well. In CE, I would defeat your 8 heavies with my 1 AAV+7 Rogues and not care about a few losses. When I'm in CE, I use that lineup extensively, so I only produce AAVs and/or Rogues with my Alcatraz. Therefore, any losses less than a complete defeat are irrelevant. And counting on the attacker not wanting to use the time to battle manually is not a very effective defense strategy.

You said that in response to my post that corrected your statement that 8 "heavies" are the best CE defense. Every player I know refers to regular heavies when using that term, and when meaning Champions, they say "Champions". So trying to backtrack on your original statement about 8 CE heavies being the most effective defense isn't working here. Especially since you are now ignoring the fact that since Color Guards are also classified as heavy units, your original statement could logically be construed as meaning any combination of Assault Tanks, Champions and/or Color Guards. Nice try, though.

And my only goal was to correct your incorrect advice, so that unwitting readers won't be led astray by it.

You still haven't even suggested a possible defensive combination. Oh no...wait...you did recommend the" throw up your hands there's nothing you can do, if you don't have the proper boost defense". Yeah let's go with that. Great call.

 

[DeletedUser]

You still haven't even suggested a possible defensive combination. Oh no...wait...you did recommend the" throw up your hands there's nothing you can do, if you don't have the proper boost defense". Yeah let's go with that. Great call.

You set a defense of a mix of current age (or higher age, if you have them), and collect on time. But your defense is irrelevant against 1+7 unless you have a much higher defense boost than the 1+7 player has attack boost. Your advice of 5 Artillery and 3 Heavy is worse than no advice. If that were your defense day after day, I would attack with 1 Artillery+7 Rogues and suffer little to no damage.

 

[ahsay]

You set a defense of a mix of current age (or higher age, if you have them), and collect on time. But your defense is irrelevant against 1+7 unless you have a much higher defense boost than the 1+7 player has attack boost. Your advice of 5 Artillery and 3 Heavy is worse than no advice. If that were your defense day after day, I would attack with 1 Artillery+7 Rogues and suffer little to no damage.

Who said "day after day"? If I'm getting plundered I have all kinds of "tricks" to mess with your attack. One would be routinely changing my defense. Go back and read my original post. All I said is that, the defense that causes me the most problems is 5 art, 3 heavy.

So, I ask for the 3rd or 4th time what defensive deployment do you recommend?