Extortion

[Mallea Maleficarum]

I'm a relatively new player and I just encountered something that kind of surprised me -- a higher-level neighborhood player advertising that he wouldn't plunder if his victims contributed a couple FP to his Zeus.

First off, I'm a stubborn old bag who wouldn't pay tribute on any basis; and, second, I either collect on time or disable my buildings, so I've never been plundered.

I'm aware extortion is likely an unintended consequence of Inno rules, but out of sheer curiosity, I wonder how many people leave for what, in most other games, would be called griefing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm aware not even Inno is a mind reader, but I do find it curious that a company so utterly engaged in leveraging every possible moneymaking opportunity would allow this.

Again, I really don't care what others are doing, but I am curious.

 

[DeletedUser28670]

I'm a relatively new player and I just encountered something that kind of surprised me -- a higher-level neighborhood player advertising that he wouldn't plunder if his victims contributed a couple FP to his Zeus.

First off, I'm a stubborn old bag who wouldn't pay tribute on any basis; and, second, I either collect on time or disable my buildings, so I've never been plundered.

I'm aware extortion is likely an unintended consequence of Inno rules, but out of sheer curiosity, I wonder how many people leave for what, in most other games, would be called griefing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm aware not even Inno is a mind reader, but I do find it curious that a company so utterly engaged in leveraging every possible moneymaking opportunity would allow this.

Again, I really don't care what others are doing, but I am curious.

This is allowed. It's even in the game rules.
Quote from game rules:

Threats are only allowed when they relate to the game and not real life. For example, saying that you will attack someone with your units if he does not give you Forge Points is allowed. However, it is not allowed to say that you will find someone and beat him up if he does not give you Forge Points.

 

[Mallea Maleficarum]

I never questioned that it's not permissible.

 

[DeletedUser27184]

This whole plunder is a big sack of empty air most of the times.

As you said, you pick on time. That alone make empty of most plundering threats. Even losing a few FP every day for plundering is tiny compared to what you can produce.

Its a game feature that annoy a lot. And new players get intimidated by it. But its really rare for you to fall into a neighborhood that everyone attack you, and the plundering become a serious problem. At least till you hit the OF.

But still, they need a tiny amount of player vs. player in this game. And plundering allow for that.

So, this player posted a threat. Will he do something with it? Not sure. And if he did, will it help him, probably not, if you pick the goods on time.

But at the end of it all, this is a bit of a war game. And this kind of threats are fine in this kind of game.

 

[Darth Mole]

I'm a plunderer but wouldn't dream of asking for Hoodies to donate in order to be exempt. If they aid me I'll aid them back so negating any chance to attack and plunder.
I'd never bow to extortion.

 

[spnnr]

I guess its an ethical question as Lord Muggle does indicate its part of the game.

While I tremble with fear when I am placed in a hood with noteworthy plunderers I think the OP and Darth Mole has the correct attitude towards such a problem though there maybe exceptions.

Just recently someone posted in another thread to delete their account citing plundering , and while its a war game (some ppl forget this) that sort of behavior leaves something to be desired..

 

[DeletedUser9930]

This is a simulation game, not a war game. As part of the simulation, one can choose to attack other players, guilds (via GvG), or to acquire territory (player map)/expedition sites (GE) via conquest. However, one need not do any 'fighting' beyond the tutorial stage and one can still do well at this game. To do so requires massive goods production* and, yes, collecting 'on time.' People who call this a war game forget, or ignore, the possibility of advancing by 'negotiation' alone.

*one must not waste any space on military barracks or GBs

 

[Algona]

I guess its an ethical question

No,

There are no ethics involved; it's a game with set rules. It's either within the rules or not.

All raising a question of ethics does is allow players to feel 'victimized' or 'angry' or other irrelevant unsportsmanlike emotions that have no place in a game being played within the rules..

 

[spnnr]

Sorry Tenkswatawa its a war strategy game ..just because you can negotiate doesn't change that fact- but that doesn't address the OPs question , so we will agree to disagree and move on.

@ Algona whats legal isn't always ethical-however I do take your point of unethical behavior being irrelevant once its within the rules, since providing a crutch for the emotional well-being of players isn't our business.

 

[Darth Mole]

Sorry Tenkswatawa its a war strategy game ..just because you can negotiate doesn't change that fact- but that doesn't address the OPs question , so we will agree to disagree and move on.

@ Algona whats legal isn't always ethical-however I do take your point of unethical behavior being irrelevant once its within the rules, since providing a crutch for the emotional well-being of players isn't our business.

I would class FoE as a strategy game incorporating war. Subtle distinction? Perfectly possible to advance and enjoy with only minimal war/battle elements.

 

[DeletedUser9930]

Agreed, spnnr, my reply didn't address the question :-$ Unfortunately, no one else has addressed the question either.

Solitaira asked, "I wonder how many people leave for what, in most other games, would be called griefing?"

In answer, I'd say that I'm aware of, perhaps, one to two dozen people* spread over eight worlds. Of course, there could be many more, as people most often leave without explanation. In other words, I don't know :-(

* no, I didn't count them, it's just an impression

Oops, sorry, spnnr, you did mention one individual ;-P {added after original message}

 

[DeletedUser30312]

Yeah, it happens.

I'm not a hardcore extortionist in the game, I demand aid within 48 hours or I will seek to plunder but I don't demand FPs. It's more work than I'm willing to put into the game myself. Other players are far less...understanding.

I don't give into such demands from other players either, instead I make an effort to make plundering as difficult as possible; many plunderers, myself included, like the low hanging fruit the best.

So follow the strategies that work, collect on time, develop a strong social network in the game to keep your stuff motivated and safe from plunder, and avoid the stuff that can't be motivated if you can't effectively defend it. Even better, go proactive and fight back, there's something quite satisfying about attacking aggressive players and plundering them in return.

 

[DeletedUser9930]

I guess there's another, implicit, question. Solitaira says, "I do find it curious that a company so utterly engaged in leveraging every possible moneymaking opportunity would allow [extortion]." In other words, "Why is extortion permitted?"

I can only speculate and extrapolate from four years of experience. It seems that those most likely to buy diamonds are those who regularly plunder and, sometimes, extort (fairly rare, perhaps less than 5% of regular plunderers): in other words, people who wish to see themselves in a position of, perceived, power vis-a-vis others. Of course, many regular plunderers do not buy diamonds, while some more pacific, at least toward neighbors, players do indulge in diamond purchasing.

 

[DeletedUser31498]

I'm a relatively new player and I just encountered something that kind of surprised me -- a higher-level neighborhood player advertising that he wouldn't plunder if his victims contributed a couple FP to his Zeus.

First off, I'm a stubborn old bag who wouldn't pay tribute on any basis; and, second, I either collect on time or disable my buildings, so I've never been plundered.

I'm aware extortion is likely an unintended consequence of Inno rules, but out of sheer curiosity, I wonder how many people leave for what, in most other games, would be called griefing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm aware not even Inno is a mind reader, but I do find it curious that a company so utterly engaged in leveraging every possible moneymaking opportunity would allow this.

Again, I really don't care what others are doing, but I am curious.

Curious if he actually backed up his threat? And is his defense bonus good enough for you to not attack back? Attackers have an enormous advantage, so even if he's more advanced (depending on Age--I'm in Iron, and very advanced for Iron, but still vulnerable) you have a good shot of beating him with rogues.

 

[Salsuero]

Yeah, it happens.

I'm not a hardcore extortionist in the game, I demand aid within 48 hours or I will seek to plunder but I don't demand FPs. It's more work than I'm willing to put into the game myself. Other players are far less...understanding.

I don't give into such demands from other players either, instead I make an effort to make plundering as difficult as possible; many plunderers, myself included, like the low hanging fruit the best.

I kinda enjoy being tossed into a hood that has an "advanced" player who asks for something akin to extortion. I just attack and plunder if there's anything available. I get attacked back? No problem. If you can breach my defense, and it isn't entirely impossible, then have at it. I collect on time, so I'm not afraid of extortionists. I imagine I would be nervous up in the top rungs of the game, but I still collect on time. Attacks only cause fear if you can't take plundering away from the attacker. Some people set "traps" by setting certain buildings to low production. Others think 2 spears will deter because they think it's about tower points. Lots of thoughts on how to go about it. I would say... never feed a bully. I don't plunder my hood. I'm almost always #1 in my hood, but I don't ask for anything... I don't even ask for aid. I don't bother aiding my hood unless I need it for the coins to complete a recurring quest or something like an event requires it. I mostly just ignore them. I do however revenge attack and plunder. If you attack me first, win or lose, when you could've aided (or ignored) -- that changes my mind. But I don't need their resources, so I don't bother otherwise. I'm rarely ever attacked. Sometimes I am... usually a surrender... once in a while a breach. It's all good. This is a game that has battle elements. I'm not afraid of them... I just do my own thing. I fight and negotiate all 4 levels of GE each week. That's about as much fighting as I really care about.

 

[DeletedUser29404]

As someone who was repeatedly "victimised" as a new player, I can say it isn't "fun". However, it forced me to get better, and better, and look for strategies which involved a number of different things to be successful. Chiefly, collecting on time, tends to bore Plunderers, as returning constantly to a city, to find absolutely nothing available to plunder.
Now, having been through all that, and knowing what I do about FoE, I can say two things.
1. Theres nothing stopping a player from just plain old ignoring the "extortionists. Put that player on "Ignore". Half the fun of being an extortionists is recieving the "fan mail" from victims.
2. The extortion schemes tend to start dialogue between players, when there would be very few other reasons to communicate with each other.
I have made many friends on FoE, by 1st writing them all "extortion letters" and then through dialogue offering them friendship, as I remind them that through friendships, we both come out ahead. There are other methods of tackling extortionists, and the rules ckearly permit this. So many players refuse to think "outside the box" and feel "stuck" when simple options exist to remedy the situation.

 

[DeletedUser28670]

Collect on time.
Collect on time.
Collect on time.
Collect on time.
Guaranteed to work.

 

[DeletedUser26120]

I use timers to keep track of when to collect, I rarely miss collection times - usually only if I am sleeping to reset collection times to morning or when I am out.

Linux Mint has them built in but windows users can use http://free-countdown-timer.com - great program, I miss it.

 

[DeletedUser8428]

As someone who was repeatedly "victimised" as a new player, I can say it isn't "fun". However, it forced me to get better, and better, and look for strategies which involved a number of different things to be successful. Chiefly, collecting on time, tends to bore Plunderers, as returning constantly to a city, to find absolutely nothing available to plunder.
Now, having been through all that, and knowing what I do about FoE, I can say two things.
1. Theres nothing stopping a player from just plain old ignoring the "extortionists. Put that player on "Ignore". Half the fun of being an extortionists is recieving the "fan mail" from victims.
2. The extortion schemes tend to start dialogue between players, when there would be very few other reasons to communicate with each other.
I have made many friends on FoE, by 1st writing them all "extortion letters" and then through dialogue offering them friendship, as I remind them that through friendships, we both come out ahead. There are other methods of tackling extortionists, and the rules ckearly permit this. So many players refuse to think "outside the box" and feel "stuck" when simple options exist to remedy the situation.

WELL DONE, KMGtG! "However, it forced me to get better". You didn't use it to quit or complain. You used it as a learning tool. And that's how players learn to excel at the game. It's also a good motivator to reach out individually to a much higher-ranked player and ask them what they do that you don't. Can't tell you how many times I've done that and my experience is that great players enjoy sharing what they know.

 

[DeletedUser]

The only extorting I've ever done (if you can even call it that) is to put a message in my profile saying that only sending me a friend request and aiding regularly will protect a player from my troops. Extorting FPs for my GBs would mean that I would have to monitor them more closely to make sure the tributaries are actually donating. That's too much like work, and I'm here to play.