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Fair Trade Calculator Dilemma

Czari

Czari

Active Member
Greetings everyone!

Our guild uses this Fair Trade Calculator: http://foe.dppro.nl/index.php?inv_vme=100&eeuw=vme&sl=fairtrade As the fair trade moderator for the guild I've found the calculator easy to use and very straight forward...until last week. I discovered that, post-Colonial age, the calculator displays different figures for the same amount of goods traded depending on which type is entered first ie. the goods one needs vs. the goods one is offering which makes absolutely no logical sense, at least to my mind!

When I post a trade, I enter the good and amount I need into the calculator and offer what is displayed as a fair trade of another good. That is how I check unfair trades as well; however, last week I sent out an unfair trade notice and was told it was a fair trade if I entered what was being offered first which seems backwards to me. I've been experimenting with the calculator since then and am about to pull out my hair!

Here is a current example: A member needs 39 gas and is offering 71 renewable resources. If I use the calculator as I've always done, a fair trade for 39 gas is 47 renewable resources, in which case the member is offering a lot more than fair. If I first input what is being offered (71 renewable resources) the calculator then displays 59 gas which would make this an unfair trade.

I've asked several people who trade a great deal about this issue and received varying answers. I think inputting the amount of goods one needs first is the logical way to use the calculator but that still doesn't explain why the calculator shows a different result if what is being offered is input first. I would be most grateful if someone can help with this dilemma!! Thank you in advance. :)

Cz
 

DeletedUser13838

The fair trade calc is based on production cost so the ratio for PME/CE is 24000/28800 or 5/6. So this says 39 gas is worth 6/5 * 39 RR = 46.8 ~ 47. But if you offer 71 RR then you should receive 71 * 5/6 gas = 59 1/6 ~ 59. There would be an issue if you entered 47 RR and didn't see 39 gas as the result. But 39 gas for 71 RR is not fair by this method so naturally the results you posted would never show a fair trade.
 

DeletedUser7289

I would point out the the "calculator" is not operated by FOE/INNO, so they have no influence on the ratios or results. What constitutes a 'fair' trade ratio has been one of the most debated and divisive issues in the game, and I doubt there will ever be a settled answer.
 
Czari

Czari

Active Member
Thank you, Konrad and pygalgia. Your explanation helped a lot, Konrad. In the above example the person was offering more than a fair trade ie. unfair to him so that's why the figures didn't match. *Light bulb goes on* Math was never my strong subject. :oops:

pygalia, I've read some of the calculator debates on the forums and agree it can become a divisive issue. I'm assuming Inno never offered a calculator. There is at least one other calculator I've seen but the one referenced above seems to be widely used in the game. Any idea how it became the "standard?"

Thank you both again!
 

DeletedUser9184

Czari said:
Thank you, Konrad and pygalgia. Your explanation helped a lot, Konrad. In the above example the person was offering more than a fair trade ie. unfair to him so that's why the figures didn't match. *Light bulb goes on* Math was never my strong subject. :oops:

pygalia, I've read some of the calculator debates on the forums and agree it can become a divisive issue. I'm assuming Inno never offered a calculator. There is at least one other calculator I've seen but the one referenced above seems to be widely used in the game. Any idea how it became the "standard?"

Thank you both again!
Click to expand...
As Konrad showed, the values the calculator uses is based on how much "it costs to produce the goods" which is something everyone can see/use/compare.
 

DeletedUser25149

Seems to me that the fair trade is the one that is accepted. If I don't think it's fair, I don't accept the trade.

That said, it seems to me the above link is a good enough starting point, especially as I just want to play the game, and am intellectually challenged when it comes to advanced mathematics or highly complex arithmetic. Tells me too long to figure it out, so I'll just use the calculator for now, and hopefully one that is acceptably a good trading standard.
 

DeletedUser10415

Czari said:
Here is a current example: A member needs 39 gas and is offering 71 renewable resources. If I use the calculator as I've always done, a fair trade for 39 gas is 47 renewable resources, in which case the member is offering a lot more than fair. If I first input what is being offered (71 renewable resources) the calculator then displays 59 gas which would make this an unfair trade.
Click to expand...

The seemingly obvious answer is your guild member either miscalculated, or made a favorable trade for the recipient so it might be picked up faster.

In these higher ages we're dealing with fractions in the ratios. You'll note that if you input 39 gas, foe.dppro displays ratios in the margins, which show what the closest absolutely fair trade would be up or down. So to get that absolutely fair trade for renewable resources, one would have to ask for 40 gas, and then they could offer 48 renewable resources for it. Note that when 40 gas is entered, the margin figure disappear for PE, ME, and PME, but remain for T and TF.
 
Galechade

Galechade

Active Member
And that's why it's much simpler to stick with 1:1, 2:1 or 1:2 for trading goods. I play in 5 worlds on 2 servers and that's what the bigger guilds all do. Those calculators are some players "brilliant" idea of what trades should be and do not take everything into account, so not worth the hassle. If your trade based on that silly calculator sits for more than 2 days, try changing it to the 1:2 or 2:1 and see how fast it gets picked up. There's a lot of us out there who will not touch trades based on that calculator.
 

DeletedUser8428

Goblin The Great King said:
Hello from EU!
You can find a true fair trade calculator here: https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com...tely-unfair-true-fair-trade-calculator.35472/
Click to expand...

Except it isn't. Inno does not support the concept of "fair" trade, there is no standard. Certainly some guilds have come up with guidelines that they use and they call those "fair" trades. But other guilds have no standards and solo players simply accept or refuse trades based on their own preferences.

Please do not perpetuate the idea amongst newer players that anything about FOE is "fair". They should not expect that all other players use the same guidelines that they do.
 

Snarko

Active Member
hjh102 said:
Inno does not support the concept of "fair" trade, there is no standard.
Click to expand...
The app has a "fair trade" tickbox when you make offers. For lower ages it's 2:1 and 1:2. I don't know what it is for higher ages. It also causes issues when people try to trade two ages up or more, claiming that their offer is fair because the app told them it is fair.
 

DeletedUser34872

hjh102 said:
Except it isn't. Inno does not support the concept of "fair" trade, there is no standard. Certainly some guilds have come up with guidelines that they use and they call those "fair" trades. But other guilds have no standards and solo players simply accept or refuse trades based on their own preferences.

Please do not perpetuate the idea amongst newer players that anything about FOE is "fair". They should not expect that all other players use the same guidelines that they do.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your feedback.

Exactly. There was no standard yet and the only guideline I could find is 1:1 and 2:1. So being a professional financial manager I've developed a standard and shared it with the public. I hope the guilds who like fairness (treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination) will use it as a guideline.

It's up to you whether you want to use it within your guild.
 
Mustapha00

Mustapha00

Well-Known Member
A "Fair Trade" is one in which both parties agree to the deal.

Most of my Guilds subscribe to the 2:1, 1:1. 1:2 ratios, and I'm fine with that. I understand the arguments against that being "fair", but it does seem to irritate the least number of people.
 
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