Feedback for Guild Expedition.. Level 5

[Ebeondi Asi]

Just a report: In two of my three Worlds I have completed GE 5 by mainly fighting. In one I only had to Negotiate the final spot. In the other the last two spots.
(In SAJM I gave up about 100% Attack for every 500% added city boost in general. I did not lose any attack army defense) And I can gain that boost lost as soon as Titan opens. No problem. PS: Going from 3000 attack down to 2700 is no problem a all. Plus I added Virgo Project)
I can foresee how it will be soon possible for me to fight all 80 GE if I wish to.

Feel free to resume the bashing, arguing whining and insulting..

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Just a report: In two of my three Worlds I have completed GE 5 by mainly fighting. In one I only had to Negotiate the final spot. In the other the last two spots.
(In SAJM I gave up about 100% Attack for every 500% added city boost in general. I did not lose any attack army defense) And I can gain that boost lost as soon as Titan opens. No problem. PS: Going from 3000 attack down to 2700 is no problem a all. Plus I added Virgo Project)
I can foresee how it will be soon possible for me to fight all 80 GE if I wish to.

Feel free to resume the bashing, arguing whining and insulting..

What were your SAJM boosts? With 400/900 I'm only able to fight up to the 11th encounter of L5. Then, I have to switch to nego.

 

[DoubleJ]

There're still plenty of non-paying players regardless. Or at least, Inno regards the playerbase as healthy enough to continue updating the game.

Like I said, Inno's keeping up with the times. The way the game was monetized in the past is neither attractive nor significant in 2023. All of those old methods are still present, but players today want more to be able to spend on. However, the core concept is the same, and you said it yourself. Spending allows players to do things more easily and/or faster (or as you said, 'in a timely manner'). Costing money now instead of diamonds is, again, keeping up with the times. Something like the Key Master's Workshop is a modern take on something like the Film Studio or any of the other old premium buildings that none of us even know the names of anymore because they haven't been relevant for years. Paying players don't want those old buildings. They want something that actually matters in today's game, and Inno's delivered on that. Still nothing that's 'required' though. Just because it's something you particularly want doesn't mean that it's a bad thing that it requires spending. It means they added something that's actually worth spending on, for the players who choose to do so.

Your mention of diamond use in GE does bring to mind all the complaints about how 'hard' GE4 was when it was first added as well. A lot of the same complaints back then, actually. Diamonds being 'required' for negotiations because of how 'expensive' it was, and the units being 'unbeatable' with their boost levels. Hindsight makes those complaints look pretty silly now, doesn't it?

Also, there's a lot of overlap between GE and GBG participation. The same players making diamonds from GBG are also going to make diamonds in GE, because they most likely aren't using many diamonds in either. The players using diamonds in GE are the ones who're less developed and don't have the resources necessary to avoid spending diamonds, meaning they probably also lack the resources to gain a lot from GBG.

Side note: I think we've done a good job at making this feedback thread absolutely useless with how derailed it's become.

There are arguments that they're now being run by vulture capitalists, trying to extract the last bit of value from the IP before it fades into obscurity.

Nobody wants more to spend on. Even people who do spend don't want to if they can avoid it. Power creep isn't relevant to the fact that new premiums require cash whereas the old premiums required skill or time. As recently as a year ago, everyone could get one copy of the top building each event without spending. That's now unreasonable or impossible. Players are more willing to spend to get a material edge; they shouldn't have to spend just to complete basic events.

GE4 was a progression from GE3. The mechanics were identical the numbers were bigger. GE5 is the reverse of GE4. You need mutually exclusive boosts to be competitive, instead of further developing your existing boosts. GE4 is harder than GE3 because it's the same thing with bigger numbers. GE5 is harder than GE4 because it requires conflicting mechanics to complete. Again, it isn't good game design that if on your third negotiation attempt you suddenly had to fight a battle or do a quicktime event for the last slot. Things should be internally consistent. Almost always in design, when you have contradictory design elements (red boosts for 80%, then suddenly blue for the last 20%) it's evidence of laziness or poor development controls.

Any player can hit in GBG a few times, even with 0% boosts. More so with siege camps, which seem to be what Inno was intending to do with the construction options. But much like GBG, only one building is worth building, and the rest are poorly balanced junk.

I mean the fact we're 30 pages into it and you're still insisting the leap from GE4 to GE5 is the same in kind as the leap from GE3 to GE4 shows why this thread is necessary. It's flat our poor understanding of mechanics to make that argument. In what other aspect of FOE do you suddenly require flipping what you're doing on its head to complete it? When you get high attrition in GBG do you have to play the Aztec minigame? When you take a lot of sectors in GVG do you have to fight smart AI like in PVP Arena? When you rank highly in PVP Arena do you suddenly have to spend 15k goods a week to keep your position? GE5 is the only example of requiring diametrically opposite play from what you just did for the first 80% of a thing. And it's because it's poorly designed.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

"Nobody want more to spend on" untrue.

"Even people who do spend don't want to if they can avoid it" also untrue (spending depends on what one gets in return. also true in this game)

"GE5 is harder than GE4 because it requires conflicting mechanics to complete."True. It makes it very cool in a "Who moved my Cheese" sort of way. It makes it outrageous,compelling, interesting and challenging. Not boring. not stupid !!! Players discuss starting over" ideas. well.. here is a real starting over tactic that works and works well to shake up things. And it actually works If you stopped whining, stopped having hissy fits, stopped refusing to look at how great an idea it is!!!

"In what other aspect of FOE do you suddenly require flipping what you're doing on its head to complete it? That is not an argument that matters. Consider: Everyone is complaining about "Titan will be the same thing as blah blah blah. If they made it different and hard, and unexpected... you and all these others woud again be screaming " YOU CHANGED IT!! NO !!! So do not get bent because they did what everyone asked for . Something different. LOL

In my opinion they want something to slow the game down a bit. GE 5 will do that for many. For Whales it might take a few events. Playes who spend some maybe half a year to get through GE 5 easy. The rest, free players maybe a year. If you actually work at it (instead of giving up)
I will say IMO Negotiating cannot be a long term strategy on GE 5. The costs are too big. The only long term solution is to fight.

I would say this thread is a 100% real true reason Inno will no longer listen to players!No matter what Inno does. a ton of players will complain. if it is the same complain. actually do something different, even more complaining. If I ran Inno. This Forum would have new rules. ideas good, whining banned, More whining banned permanently from Forum. There is zero need for this drivel all you complainers are handing out. zero.An yes you are free to say your piece. Sadly it is not worth listening to for 37 plus pages

 

[Just An Observer]

"Nobody want more to spend on" untrue.

"Even people who do spend don't want to if they can avoid it" also untrue (spending depends on what one gets in return. also true in this game)

"GE5 is harder than GE4 because it requires conflicting mechanics to complete."True. It makes it very cool in a "Who moved my Cheese" sort of way. It makes it outrageous,compelling, interesting and challenging. Not boring. not stupid !!! Players discuss starting over" ideas. well.. here is a real starting over tactic that works and works well to shake up things. And it actually works If you stopped whining, stopped having hissy fits, stopped refusing to look at how great an idea it is!!!

"In what other aspect of FOE do you suddenly require flipping what you're doing on its head to complete it? That is not an argument that matters. Consider: Everyone is complaining about "Titan will be the same thing as blah blah blah. If they made it different and hard, and unexpected... you and all these others woud again be screaming " YOU CHANGED IT!! NO !!! So do not get bent because they did what everyone asked for . Something different. LOL

In my opinion they want something to slow the game down a bit. GE 5 will do that for many. For Whales it might take a few events. Playes who spend some maybe half a year to get through GE 5 easy. The rest, free players maybe a year. If you actually work at it (instead of giving up)
I will say IMO Negotiating cannot be a long term strategy on GE 5. The costs are too big. The only long term solution is to fight.

I would say this thread is a 100% real true reason Inno will no longer listen to players!No matter what Inno does. a ton of players will complain. if it is the same complain. actually do something different, even more complaining. If I ran Inno. This Forum would have new rules. ideas good, whining banned, More whining banned permanently from Forum. There is zero need for this drivel all you complainers are handing out. zero.An yes you are free to say your piece. Sadly it is not worth listening to for 37 plus pages

Negs work very well for me. The cost of goods does not even put a dent into my stock since I run an Abort 2000 RQ machine every day. Here are more advantages to taking the Negs route: When there is no GBG, you can still get your Castle points. Spread out GE5 over the course of 3 days. When there is GBG, you can then put 100% of your time into Fights in GBG so you score more there. The last benefit is not having to use space in a city for SBC and all other Blue number-oriented buildings so you can use the space to keep your GBG hand strong.

 

[DoubleJ]

"GE5 is harder than GE4 because it requires conflicting mechanics to complete."True. It makes it very cool in a "Who moved my Cheese" sort of way. It makes it outrageous,compelling, interesting and challenging. Not boring. not stupid !!! Players discuss starting over" ideas. well.. here is a real starting over tactic that works and works well to shake up things. And it actually works If you stopped whining, stopped having hissy fits, stopped refusing to look at how great an idea it is!!!

"In what other aspect of FOE do you suddenly require flipping what you're doing on its head to complete it? That is not an argument that matters. Consider: Everyone is complaining about "Titan will be the same thing as blah blah blah. If they made it different and hard, and unexpected... you and all these others woud again be screaming " YOU CHANGED IT!! NO !!! So do not get bent because they did what everyone asked for . Something different. LOL

In my opinion they want something to slow the game down a bit. GE 5 will do that for many. For Whales it might take a few events. Playes who spend some maybe half a year to get through GE 5 easy. The rest, free players maybe a year. If you actually work at it (instead of giving up)
I will say IMO Negotiating cannot be a long term strategy on GE 5. The costs are too big. The only long term solution is to fight.

I would say this thread is a 100% real true reason Inno will no longer listen to players!No matter what Inno does. a ton of players will complain. if it is the same complain. actually do something different, even more complaining. If I ran Inno. This Forum would have new rules. ideas good, whining banned, More whining banned permanently from Forum. There is zero need for this drivel all you complainers are handing out. zero.An yes you are free to say your piece. Sadly it is not worth listening to for 37 plus pages

It doesn't make it cool. It just makes it badly designed. A door you have to push and pull to open isn't a good door. It's not compelling, it's not interesting, it's an intersection of conflicting mechanics with clearly no thought put into them. Again, the goods saving building costs more goods to build than it saves. I've looked at exactly how good it is: and it's not good.

You're comparing a months long age expansion to the last day of weekly GE. That's either ridiculously bad faith or flat out ignorance. Each age, which is months to years for a player to move through, can feel and be different. GE is a weekly repeating loot box. They're about as opposite as two mechanics can be.

The long term solution is to quit after getting portraits. Which is what players who don't quit the game entirely will do.

There's plenty of need for complaining about bad decisions. As have been listed in a manner a toddler could understand. Taking away free diamonds hurts the game. Adding a time sink that isn't fun hurts the game. Not testing the basic math of a new mechanic hurts the game. It goes on. Either you are choosing not to see that, or you're not sophisticated enough to understand the conversation most of us are trying to have.

 

[xivarmy]

The long term solution is to quit after getting portraits. Which is what players who don't quit the game entirely will do.

Lol, what? Portraits actually motivates someone, who knew!

I'll be happy when the portraits are finally out of the way because I'll stop winning them instead of the fragments I want, but that's about it.

Maintaining a Forgotten Temple and slowly winning Feathered Serpent Statues are enough for me to want to do it - and on 2 of my worlds I do - one by negotiation (which will be sustainable on that world - though yes I'll use diamonds for extra turns - about 3 or 4 a week on average i think but that's sustainable too) - and the other by fighting with advanced troops in industrial.

There is a 3rd active world where I would want it but I'm not able at this time to make the investment needed to either negotiate or fight it as that would conflict with other goals for the time being - but that's fine.

And a new world i started this week to try to build up for it as I go rather than get dropped into the deep end.

I do think the numbers are overtuned in the highest ages - that I should feel motivated to start building to fight it, but I don't. I'm either negotiating it or not doing it in worlds that have gone years without caring about my defending army. Maybe a year from now with the trend of recent event buildings I'll look at my defending army stats and go "ya know, now I am close enough anyways to start thinking about fighting some of it to save some goods" and then i'll care enough to try and find extra DA stats.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

"Either you are choosing not to see that, or you're not sophisticated enough to understand the conversation most of us are trying to have."
The conversations are three in content.

The first is griping, whining complaining and generally negative about GE 5. It seem the think by complaining loudly enough and claiming everyone will quit... they can ge it changed. They seem fixated on the loss of Diamonds? The problem for them are the second type of posts

Then a second group of players who are trying to accomplish the task. Some of those players are grumbling too. but are willing to make an effort and are posting how they succeeded, and find it to be just fine as a new way to enjoy playing Foe (Me too!!!)

Then the third set of posts which are post made to argue with the other group, Either the yes it can be done, Whoo Hoo! .. or the Now we all will quit, the game is doomed if this stays in it factions. Which seem to be designed to pull on the undecided players who ae wondering what all the fuss is about. (Since they struggle to get through GE 3 let alone imagine anything about GE 5.)

The repetition in posts of all three types is sometimes interesting reading. Though I am sorry Melllowfax has to wade though it all over and over

One other thing is the number of players who post in the Forum is so low as to be of no matter to Inno. How many active posters here? 50? (probably less!) all players who post in the Forum ... under 200 fer' sure. And quantity of posts by those few players does not make up for the lack of players in general coming here.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Inno make ALL items sellable in the AD, The Forbidden Temple is limited junk and not everyone wants it.

wow What can I say passing up on 20% more Forge points for all none GB Fps ((aside from the masses of "too small to count" buildings.. Which I read is a sore point for a few players? )) (permanently if you do GE 5 evey week)
That would give me 220 FP a day free. I'll keep it LOL
I realize it may not ?? give your city 220FPs a day. but it also adds 40% attack boost attack and attack defense and both city attack and defense at 50% in a 3 x4 buiding Those seem worth it too if you are doing GE 5 anyway. (like I plan on doing)

 

[qaccy]

Inno make ALL items sellable in the AD, The Forbidden Temple is limited junk and not everyone wants it.

I can't speak for you, but I'm personally happy with a half-sized level 49 Terracotta Army that didn't cost me any goods nor FP to build. In fact, it'll be gaining me extra FP rather than costing any! I wouldn't sell this thing to the AD even if it was an option.

 

[Darkest.Knight]

I negotiate my way thru GE5, 40K goods looks too hi to me. I'm sure the goods drain is felt by lower lvl players but not by more mature one's. For myself the goods requirements have forced me to trade more, but not much of a change in total count.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Except the 40K goods to get it for most people. Why are you two commenting about how wrong I am for wanting to get rid of it . nobody is allowed having a different playing style ?

I would say the 40K for doing GE 5 four times is correct.
You're free to write you want to get rid of it. Just as we are free to say getting rid of it is not a good idea.. LOL

 

[LoveNkind]

You still have to slog through GE5 every single week to keep it going. And if you get a new one every 4 weeks when doing GE5, and you get extra fragments like you stated, what's the sense of bothering with trying to make one last through 5 weeks? That's just extra work for nothing. But you do you.

...

LOL. Watchfires are useless, as are Tactician's Towers. These new GE5 buildings are, too, except when doing GE5. I can't believe you all don't see the ridiculous hoops Inno has you going through to get buildings that only help with the feature that provides them! Would you do GBG if you only got rewards that help do GBG? No. Would you do Cultural Settlements if they only gave rewards that helped with Cultural Settlements? No. So why do GE5 only to get rewards that help with GE5? It's madness, I tell you. Pure madness.

I am using CD's 5-season trick to get extra temples so I have a cushion for GE5 if there is an off week when I can't play normally.

And I love GE5 rewards for PvP as well as GE5--but I would love them for GE5 alone because I just LOVE GE that much. My fave part of the game. And GE5 is the most challenging part of GE, so I like it the best. To each his own.

 

[qaccy]

Except the 40K goods to get it for most people. Why are you two commenting about how wrong I am for wanting to get rid of it . nobody is allowed having a different playing style ?

Assuming it costs 40k to get, why would you go through the effort to obtain it in the first place to then get rid of it at the AD? That would certainly be a bad return compared to the effects the building provides. That's like paying 10k+ diamonds for an extra event building to then sell at the AD. Why would you? Seems like you'd be better off either keeping the building to use it, or just not obtaining it in the first place because that cost could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

My strategy as of now:
Make full use of the defense boost potions INNO's given me, while slowly transitioning off dependence and reliance on those potions. So as to not squander an obscene quantity of them each round, I only use as many as is needed to get me through the first 11-12 encounters by fighting. For the last 4 encounters, I'm happy to negotiate. This mixed strategy allows me to use far less potions/round & far less goods/round - an all around win. That makes the supply of potions last longer. In the meantime, I'm transitioning off potion reliance by doing the following:
1. Building up goods production:
- I'm currently working on leveling my seed vault - a great and reliable goods producer, while also a diamond producer at higher levels. Following this, I'll be leveling up a planned Star Gazer for those sweet previous era goods. I'd note for the record that SoA's (Stage of Age's) are exceptional at providing Previous Era Goods, so definetly get your hands on a few if you haven't already.
2. Leveling up my Defensive Stats:
- No, I won't be transitioning my city to give me 2000 each D/D and A/D. I simply want a high enough base state to get through the first 8 encounters of GEV or so (roughly 500% D/D & A/D). That's far more reasonable to accomplish, escpecially with all these event buildings that have high defensive stats that INNO's giving us. I may consider leveling up a St. Basil's also - It can't hurt, eh? I've also placed some of the flames down.

after that's completed in a few months, I should be able to reliably complete GEV without any potions each week via this half and half strategy. Believe me though, I wouldn't go through all this work if I wasn't confident that the ROI existed - which it certaintly does. For me, the forgotten temple it netting me an extra 150 FP/Day or so, and the other buildings from GEV are just stupidly good imo.

TL;DR - A half and half strategy of fighting and negotiating is the best, IMO.

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

That looks like a solid plan. I am shooting for 650/950 , that should get me to 12 with no boosts and I will negotiate the rest.

Good luck with that! Just built my star gazer tonight, and I think I'll level up my TA b4 building a SBC

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

You pretty much go through the whole forum for people that don't play like you to tell them how wrong they are. I don't like buildings that disappear every 28 days and you love them, as you were.

I do not mean to create friction with you. I guess i rub you the wrong way? I am here to play the game have fun. Discuss stuff.

 

[Xenosaur]

Inno make ALL items sellable in the AD, The Forbidden Temple is limited junk and not everyone wants it.

Daunting Tower was another item that originally was enabled for Auction Dealer sale, then turned off from that action by Inno.

As to other comments - agree @Sharmon the Impaler. The MAYOR of the city (ie YOU) get to decide the world FoE strategy (what to keep, what to sell), and selling things others consider full of game value shouldn't be considered wrong. Our mutual bigger point is:

Inno shouldn't class objects we earn in the game with a NO-SELL class sticker.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

I fought through GE 5.. in one world just now. I needed to build boost buildings only for the last four.
Second World had to Negotiate the last two.
Third one. I am sitting with five to go.. I think I cannot fight further, though a pile of blue bottles might get me one more? Othewise would have to negotiate for now.
Finished all three Worlds to 80. Took less time to accomplish this than I thought it would,

 

[Emberguard]

How many of those dud "reward" pictures are there in level 5 ? Now Inno is reducing the rewards by simply giving nothing ? A picture is not a reward , it is a picture.

The announcement:

Avatars​

Naturally, we've added 18 new avatars to let you show off your Guild Expedition progress to everyone! All avatars have a chance to drop from various encounters on level 5.