Founder Rights in Messages

Arya66

Active Member
I know this has been stated before, it was even a Proposal..but I think Guild Founders need to be given more control over what their members send/post to All Guild Members. I don't want to block them from sending any messages to the guild, but some will overstep their bounds. There should be a way we, as Founders, can delete their posts.

Even if they are removed from the guild, their post will still be there.

Sending them private messages has not worked.

Any ideas?
 

Stephen Longshanks

I have found that the only decent solution in a guild with more than just a very few trusted members is to restrict the ability to easily send guild-wide messages. Unfortunately, even that is not a complete solution, because it is possible to send a guild-wide message without using the add-all-guild-members button. What I have done is to have members that want to send a guild wide message for some reason to submit a request, and then I will start the thread for them. That puts me on as administrator, and I can get rid of the thread if/when necessary.
 

DeletedUser28412

I agree with this we as Founders do need to have better abilities in our own guild. There are many things that would really help and this is a big one for me thats mentioned here.
 

DeletedUser32389

If I may, it sounds like you have some housecleaning to do. If you can't keep your guild members in their lane then it's time for new members, or new leadership...
 

Stephen Longshanks

If I may, it sounds like you have some housecleaning to do. If you can't keep your guild members in their lane then it's time for new members, or new leadership...
It's not a matter of keeping guild members "in their lane", it's a matter of trying to manage a messaging system that is extremely problematic in an active guild. Especially in light of the inadequacies of the mobile version. In a guild with active swap threads, a trade thread, stix thread, GE/GvG threads, and so on, it is already very hard for mobile players to keep up with it. All these threads make it difficult to even communicate with mobile players sometimes, because if they're not on for a couple of hours after you message them, the message will get buried under all the activity in the other threads. And since it is not the easiest thing to manage multiple message threads on mobile, many won't even bother trying to keep up. Combine this with their inability to access the guild forum and you have a real problem. In my guild on Yorkton right now, I have a player who is extremely difficult to communicate with, and it may end up with him getting booted simply because of that communication problem.

Now, add to all that a couple of guild members who start guild-wide threads on their own, even if it is with best intentions, and you have a complete mess and end up with the same problem as articulated in Cool Hand Luke by Strother Martin: "What we have here...is failure..to communicate."
 

DeletedUser32389

Let's boil this down, are we proposing that trusted guild members have the ability to delete posts? Just on the main guild board or whole messages? What if that message includes somebody from a different guild, can you delete it then? Things get murky real quick in my opinion.
I have a player who is extremely difficult to communicate with, and it may end up with him getting booted simply because of that communication problem.
If they can't be bothered to scroll through a few pages of messages then they wouldn't last a week in my guild.
 

Stephen Longshanks

Let's boil this down, are we proposing that trusted guild members have the ability to delete posts?
Although there are times when this would be tempting, I am certainly not proposing that. And even if I were proposing that ability, I would restrict it to the Founder(s) only, not even Leaders.
If they can't be bothered to scroll through a few pages of messages then they wouldn't last a week in my guild.
Have you played on mobile? It's not a matter of just scrolling through pages, only a few threads show, and then you have to click "load earlier messages" to access a few more, and so on.
 

Arya66

Active Member
Let's boil this down, are we proposing that trusted guild members have the ability to delete posts? Just on the main guild board or whole messages? What if that message includes somebody from a different guild, can you delete it then? Things get murky real quick in my opinion.
Not posts - A Message Thread sent to the Guild.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
For all intents and purposes, a message to all guild members is just a message to a specific group of people. There is nothing that prevents you from adding additional random players or removing specific guild members from these messages upon setting one up or after the fact. They are just message threads like any other and therefore are controlled by the original sender as he/she sees fit. There isn't anything special about threads sent to all guild members other than the "coincidence" (through a button push) that the message includes all guild members. How would you handle a message sent to all guild members, except for one? Would you be given rights if that one person were added manually after the fact to now include all guild members? The resulting thread would be exactly the same at that point as one set up using the all guild members button, right? What if one was then deleted? Do you no longer keep those rights since it's no longer a thread to all guild members?
 

DeletedUser6892

If I may, it sounds like you have some housecleaning to do. If you can't keep your guild members in their lane then it's time for new members, or new leadership...
I couldn't disagree more. I proposed something a while back to enable guild founders and those with elected rights to have admin rights as default for guild messages. I had a player that was quietly harassing guild members through PM but those members were being tough and did not complain then the abuser updated his profile and put horrible derogatory statements about particular players there and then he started openly harassing them on public messages over the weekend. I'm not a weekend player so my response was delayed but it all escalated very quickly. Housecleaning had nothing to do with it. If leaders don't know about a problem we can't act on it. It's too much to expect players to complain before it gets unbearable. In this case the target did not complain until it had already gotten far beyond typical game insults. The abusive player was removed after trying to work things out through PM but his messages remained and some guild members never left the threads so kept receiving the inappropriate messages for a long long time- many months- hopefully they were just lazy and not reading them but who knows. This member became hostile and openly abusive. Once I intervened he targeted me, which was better than him targeting my guildmate honestly because as founder you should expect a certain amount of difficulty with the odd player but those messages he started to to guild were there- permanently. So each guild member had to leave or decide to stay to watch the trainwreck. Sure sure reports were made to inno- but they said they couldn't intervene on guild messages only chat posts that they could check. So we had a bully to deal with on our own who kept on with the harassment even after he was dismissed from the guild for being abusive for months and months (that's founders/ leaders only recourse right now- give the boot). He still had an open door to harass the guild because he had started guildwide messages and was included on others that had limited admins that he did not start.

Then it was a trial to get in touch with anyone who had included them on a guildwide message to get them to update to guild members only and nothing- absolutely nothing- could be done with guildwide messages originated by the abuser. All I could do was to request that people leave the thread and cross my fingers for full compliance. How many guild leaders out there believe that they get full compliance on any request? Full complaince is an absolute myth- and we can't hold players at fault for that. It's not their job to make sure they read every message. We'd love it if they did but even I can't claim to read every post.

I had negative feedback on my proposal because one particular forum regular thought it was too dictatorial to have leaders and founders defaulted as thread admin. I did have support- more support than lack of support but nothing was implemented in game to bring about change. So FoE remains open to abuse and bullying. I refuse to limit guild members rights to start new threads instead we are application only. The purpose of that is to prevent the harasser from rejoining the guild. I prefer letting my guild members have the right to start new threads but I'd sure love to be able to step in and remove the rare abusive post. This is one of those things where it's not a problem until it's a problem! But it's a big big problem when it surfaces.

So as far as housekeeping we did the following:
intervene and contact the harasser and try to reach some amicable outcome to no avial
Remove the offender from the guild
Change from being an open guild (which stinks because we advertise as a newbie friendly learning guild) to application only- just to prevent this one person from rejoining. Simply moving to being application only requires new players to understand how to request invites to a guild. Sure it seems simple but when people are just starting out every little thing has a learning curve.
Hope and cross our fingers that they would grow bored and leave us alone on threads they started. This was the worst step because this person was genuinely invested in creating havoc. He did not give up for a long long time.
 

DeletedUser32389

I had a player that was quietly harassing guild members through PM but those members were being tough and did not complain then the abuser
Your first problem, bad people (no vetting?)

A guild that's steeped in zero Drama (like mine) doesn't see this. I'm sorry, but this is low end BS.
This is one of those things where it's not a problem until it's a problem! But it's a big big problem when it surfaces.
If your members need to rely on you to cleanup after them it's not gonna work. Everyone in my guild is a full fledged adult. This just doesn't fly.
'm not a weekend player so my response was delayed but it all escalated very quickly.
So you wouldn't have been there to stop the conversation anyway... right?

Get yourself a better guild.
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
Screen shot 2018-03-01 at 4.55.30 PM.png

Does the mobile app allow you to send to the entire guild in a single click if this right is not enabled? If so, that seems like a bug that needs to be reported. If not... well, don't allow this right until a member has earned the trust of the guild's leadership. If it is abused, boot... and if the player rejoins (if an open guild), don't grant this right and just re-boot upon noticing the rejoin. Simple, no?
 

DeletedUser3882

View attachment 9373

Does the mobile app allow you to send to the entire guild in a single click if this right is not enabled? If so, that seems like a bug that needs to be reported. If not... well, don't allow this right until a member has earned the trust of the guild's leadership. If it is abused, boot... and if the player rejoins (if an open guild), don't grant this right and just re-boot upon noticing the rejoin. Simple, no?
The mobile app allows one to easily send messages to all guild, all friends, and all neighbors with or without this right enabled with just a few extra button presses...

Not arguing for/against... just saying....
 

DeletedUser3882

Change from being an open guild (which stinks because we advertise as a newbie friendly learning guild) to application only- just to prevent this one person from rejoining. Simply moving to being application only requires new players to understand how to request invites to a guild.
“Invite only” would give further control and you can still send invites being “Application Only”. The only difference between these two levels is that a player can initiate the request to join by sending an application. Otherwise, they are exactly the same. I would guess this offending player spams you with regular apps to join too?
 

Salsuero

Well-Known Member
The mobile app allows one to easily send messages to all guild, all friends, and all neighbors with or without this right enabled with just a few extra button presses...
That seems like a bug then because that's supposed to be a grantable (or non- as the case may be) right. If it's not enabled, you should not be able to do it... otherwise, that seems like a stupidly unnecessary "feature". Things should not be able to be prevented in the browser, only to be easily side-stepped by going to the app.

Are you sure it is allowed in the app if the right is disabled?
 

DeletedUser3882

Are you sure it is allowed in the app if the right is disabled?
Oh yeah...



Of course, I suppose you can still manually do it via browser by typing all player’s names in separated by a comma.... But mobile makes that *much* easier!
 

DeletedUser3882

So you don't have the "notifier" right selected in that guild? Your guild leaders have disabled that right for you?
Oh yeah...
AYep... ;)

On mobile, as shown in my previous screen shot, provides a drop down list of *all* neighbors/guildmates/friends that you can easily check the checkbox to include in a message and spam at will. The exception is shown below when selecting “others.” Manually typing in a name much like browser. All in all, no rights, nor guild really (except to spam the guild), needed...

https://prnt.sc/inoxki
 

DeletedUser11427

I know this has been stated before, it was even a Proposal..but I think Guild Founders need to be given more control over what their members send/post to All Guild Members. I don't want to block them from sending any messages to the guild, but some will overstep their bounds. There should be a way we, as Founders, can delete their posts.

Even if they are removed from the guild, their post will still be there.

Sending them private messages has not worked.

Any ideas?
Founders should have rights to all messages in a guild