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GbG ranking system

coolmite

Member
I believe there is a flaw in the current GbG ranking system and I'd love to get some feedback. It appears to be designed to reward the uber-elite guilds and the mediocre guilds. The very good guilds that are not quite elite, but better than mediocre really have no place in the rankings. The uber-elite will win in “high-diamond” every week (or most weeks). The mediocre guilds will lose in “high-diamond” and then get demoted to “low-diamond”. In “low-diamond” the mediocre guild will dominate. They will get a lot of Victory Points and they will notch a “victory” (the primary factor in the ranking system). Then they will be promoted back to “high diamond” where they don’t have a chance at competing. This cycle will continue until the end of the 6 session tournament where they will end with 3 victories and a fairly high ranking. Meanwhile, a “very good” guild (say the 5th best on the world) will likely never win a victory because they will have one of the top 4 guilds going against them every season. But it would also be highly unlikely for them to ever come in below 4th place in a single season. That means they stay in “high diamond” for the entire tournament. In the end, they have a lower ranking and less fragments than the mediocre guild that bounces between low and high diamond. For me, a guild that comes in 2nd place 6 straight weeks against the elite GbG guilds should not have a worse outcome than a guild that cannot compete against the top guilds on the server. It seems like you should not accumulate victories or VP unless you are grouped with all of the 1000 LP guilds. In my world, 7 of the top 10 guilds in the new rankings are guilds that bounce between high-diamond, low-diamond, and platinum. Currently, my guild is outside of the top 10 because we did not come in first last season. We have 2 "top 10" guilds on our current map. They are top 10 because they picked up a victory in low diamond last season. This season, they will come in 5th and 6th and go back to low diamond to pick up another victory. My guild will likely come in 2nd, yet we will still be ranked behind them. Everybody has told me this will all even out over time. But that isn't something that can even out unless we were to make the decision to tank and drop to low diamond. Sure, that is our choice and option, but don't you think that shows there is a flaw in the way teams are ranked? The only way to get a better ranking is to try less. That pretty clearly shows that the rankings aren't a true indication of the strength of a guild relative to others - which is what a ranking should be designed to show.
 

Be Chuille

Well-Known Member
Guild ranking should be based on something like VP * LP (weighted in per the league where the VP was won)
It should have some kind of weighted rank depending upon the level where the VP was earned.

I can't believe that developers think the current ranking is fair. It just stupid and illogical.
 
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Be Chuille

Well-Known Member
*ebe* said:
...
"what were they thinking?"
Click to expand...
What were they thinking indeed? Someone had to come up with that idea for ranking. And then someone else had to approve it.
It explains alot of what has been going on this game. Lack of common sense from developers and/or someone making the decisions.
Their lack of common sense is going to drive more and more players away from the game.
 
Ebeondi Asi

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
Players quitting, players leaving the game. Always mysterious other players, the great huddled masses of players who have been here since whenever, all going to leave because of blah blah blah.
How odd that is the refrain of endless naysayers since? Well since the first game ever (with a chat room anyway. )
I totally understand why Inno never listens to any of this drivel. Totally.
 

Angry.Blanket

Well-Known Member
*ebe* said:
Players quitting, players leaving the game. Always mysterious other players, the great huddled masses of players who have been here since whenever, all going to leave because of blah blah blah.
How odd that is the refrain of endless naysayers since? Well since the first game ever (with a chat room anyway. )
I totally understand why Inno never listens to any of this drivel. Totally.
Click to expand...
And you ae making it better how ?
 

Vasilisa Premudraya

Member
coolmite said:
I believe there is a flaw in the current GbG ranking system and I'd love to get some feedback. It appears to be designed to reward the uber-elite guilds and the mediocre guilds. The very good guilds that are not quite elite, but better than mediocre really have no place in the rankings. The uber-elite will win in “high-diamond” every week (or most weeks). The mediocre guilds will lose in “high-diamond” and then get demoted to “low-diamond”. In “low-diamond” the mediocre guild will dominate. They will get a lot of Victory Points and they will notch a “victory” (the primary factor in the ranking system). Then they will be promoted back to “high diamond” where they don’t have a chance at competing. This cycle will continue until the end of the 6 session tournament where they will end with 3 victories and a fairly high ranking. Meanwhile, a “very good” guild (say the 5th best on the world) will likely never win a victory because they will have one of the top 4 guilds going against them every season. But it would also be highly unlikely for them to ever come in below 4th place in a single season. That means they stay in “high diamond” for the entire tournament. In the end, they have a lower ranking and less fragments than the mediocre guild that bounces between low and high diamond. For me, a guild that comes in 2nd place 6 straight weeks against the elite GbG guilds should not have a worse outcome than a guild that cannot compete against the top guilds on the server. It seems like you should not accumulate victories or VP unless you are grouped with all of the 1000 LP guilds. In my world, 7 of the top 10 guilds in the new rankings are guilds that bounce between high-diamond, low-diamond, and platinum. Currently, my guild is outside of the top 10 because we did not come in first last season. We have 2 "top 10" guilds on our current map. They are top 10 because they picked up a victory in low diamond last season. This season, they will come in 5th and 6th and go back to low diamond to pick up another victory. My guild will likely come in 2nd, yet we will still be ranked behind them. Everybody has told me this will all even out over time. But that isn't something that can even out unless we were to make the decision to tank and drop to low diamond. Sure, that is our choice and option, but don't you think that shows there is a flaw in the way teams are ranked? The only way to get a better ranking is to try less. That pretty clearly shows that the rankings aren't a true indication of the strength of a guild relative to others - which is what a ranking should be designed to show.
Click to expand...
I really couldn’t agree more. It’s completely illogical and unfair to guilds who keep getting second and third place in a highly competitive 1000 LP league and who are miles stronger than the winners of the easy diamond league .
 

xivarmy

Well-Known Member
CrabbyOldMan said:
Just saying GbG is enough of a joke to make me laugh.
Any ranking system that fails to take into account the size of the guilds is going to be tilted toward the larger guilds. Inno just doesn't get it.
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Larger guilds being more painful to run, shouldn't they be rewarded when done well?

I mean *I* don't want to be *in* a large guild - let alone run one - and I'm ok with paying the price for that :p
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
CrabbyOldMan said:
Just saying GbG is enough of a joke to make me laugh.
Any ranking system that fails to take into account the size of the guilds is going to be tilted toward the larger guilds. Inno just doesn't get it.
Click to expand...
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Just because a guild has 80 players doesn't necessarily mean that they have 80 members active in GBG. Even if they do have 80 active GBG players doesn't mean that these 80 players can handle much attrition.
 

Orius Maximus

Well-Known Member
*ebe* said:
Running Guilds is very much like herding cats. Hard to do... and bigger is much harder.. (Best way is to have a fish in your pocket.)
Click to expand...

You're wrong. Running guilds is *exactly* like herding cats.

Anyway, there's no reason that big guilds that run things effectively shouldn't reap the benefits. It is a lot of work. You want to run a tiny guild with less than a dozen people, there should be an eventual limit to what you can accomplish.
 
Angelique LaRose

Angelique LaRose

New Member
coolmite said:
I believe there is a flaw in the current GbG ranking system and I'd love to get some feedback. It appears to be designed to reward the uber-elite guilds and the mediocre guilds. The very good guilds that are not quite elite, but better than mediocre really have no place in the rankings. The uber-elite will win in “high-diamond” every week (or most weeks). The mediocre guilds will lose in “high-diamond” and then get demoted to “low-diamond”. In “low-diamond” the mediocre guild will dominate. They will get a lot of Victory Points and they will notch a “victory” (the primary factor in the ranking system). Then they will be promoted back to “high diamond” where they don’t have a chance at competing. This cycle will continue until the end of the 6 session tournament where they will end with 3 victories and a fairly high ranking. Meanwhile, a “very good” guild (say the 5th best on the world) will likely never win a victory because they will have one of the top 4 guilds going against them every season. But it would also be highly unlikely for them to ever come in below 4th place in a single season. That means they stay in “high diamond” for the entire tournament. In the end, they have a lower ranking and less fragments than the mediocre guild that bounces between low and high diamond. For me, a guild that comes in 2nd place 6 straight weeks against the elite GbG guilds should not have a worse outcome than a guild that cannot compete against the top guilds on the server. It seems like you should not accumulate victories or VP unless you are grouped with all of the 1000 LP guilds. In my world, 7 of the top 10 guilds in the new rankings are guilds that bounce between high-diamond, low-diamond, and platinum. Currently, my guild is outside of the top 10 because we did not come in first last season. We have 2 "top 10" guilds on our current map. They are top 10 because they picked up a victory in low diamond last season. This season, they will come in 5th and 6th and go back to low diamond to pick up another victory. My guild will likely come in 2nd, yet we will still be ranked behind them. Everybody has told me this will all even out over time. But that isn't something that can even out unless we were to make the decision to tank and drop to low diamond. Sure, that is our choice and option, but don't you think that shows there is a flaw in the way teams are ranked? The only way to get a better ranking is to try less. That pretty clearly shows that the rankings aren't a true indication of the strength of a guild relative to others - which is what a ranking should be designed to show.
Click to expand...
this is the fatal flaw in the system that waters down the value of rank placement and makes it useless. I have always found it frustrating that meh guilds bounce down to low diamond and grab 1st place wins but can't compete in high diamond. Stronger guilds have to Hold their own every single week and come out with less. Would be great if they made low diamond a different league all together.
 
Ebeondi Asi

Ebeondi Asi

Well-Known Member
The early league placement problems will gradually work themselves out. I do not think it is problem. (except for those who can't stand some weak guilds get to appear to shine for a brief moment.. before they collapse again. LoL
 

billlaca

New Member
coolmite said:
I believe there is a flaw in the current GbG ranking system and I'd love to get some feedback. It appears to be designed to reward the uber-elite guilds and the mediocre guilds. The very good guilds that are not quite elite, but better than mediocre really have no place in the rankings. The uber-elite will win in “high-diamond” every week (or most weeks). The mediocre guilds will lose in “high-diamond” and then get demoted to “low-diamond”. In “low-diamond” the mediocre guild will dominate. They will get a lot of Victory Points and they will notch a “victory” (the primary factor in the ranking system). Then they will be promoted back to “high diamond” where they don’t have a chance at competing. This cycle will continue until the end of the 6 session tournament where they will end with 3 victories and a fairly high ranking. Meanwhile, a “very good” guild (say the 5th best on the world) will likely never win a victory because they will have one of the top 4 guilds going against them every season. But it would also be highly unlikely for them to ever come in below 4th place in a single season. That means they stay in “high diamond” for the entire tournament. In the end, they have a lower ranking and less fragments than the mediocre guild that bounces between low and high diamond. For me, a guild that comes in 2nd place 6 straight weeks against the elite GbG guilds should not have a worse outcome than a guild that cannot compete against the top guilds on the server. It seems like you should not accumulate victories or VP unless you are grouped with all of the 1000 LP guilds. In my world, 7 of the top 10 guilds in the new rankings are guilds that bounce between high-diamond, low-diamond, and platinum. Currently, my guild is outside of the top 10 because we did not come in first last season. We have 2 "top 10" guilds on our current map. They are top 10 because they picked up a victory in low diamond last season. This season, they will come in 5th and 6th and go back to low diamond to pick up another victory. My guild will likely come in 2nd, yet we will still be ranked behind them. Everybody has told me this will all even out over time. But that isn't something that can even out unless we were to make the decision to tank and drop to low diamond. Sure, that is our choice and option, but don't you think that shows there is a flaw in the way teams are ranked? The only way to get a better ranking is to try less. That pretty clearly shows that the rankings aren't a true indication of the strength of a guild relative to others - which is what a ranking should be designed to show.
Click to expand...
You are so right in what you say. We are a good guild and deliberately bounce between high diamond and low diamond to take advantage of this stupid system. How guilds are paired each season is also a joke. Why not completely random from all diamond level guilds.
 

coolmite

Member
*ebe* said:
The early league placement problems will gradually work themselves out. I do not think it is problem. (except for those who can't stand some weak guilds get to appear to shine for a brief moment.. before they collapse again. LoL
Click to expand...
I don't think it will work itself out. A guild that isn't quite good enough to stay in high diamond will bounce between the two. Every other season they will pick up a first place victory. A much stronger guild (say 4th or 5th best) will never go down to low diamond to pick up an easy win but will likely have trouble winning in high diamond because the groupings will generally have at least one of the top 3 with them. My guild has been in top tier for 52 seasons, but we've only managed to pick up 6 total victories. They are tough to come by. The guilds that bounce back and forth all have more victories than we do - but when they are on the same map as us they cannot keep up. This current system rewards you for not being good enough to stay in the top level and penalizes you for being good enough to stay in the top level - but just short of being able to win it.
 

coolmite

Member
billlaca said:
You are so right in what you say. We are a good guild and deliberately bounce between high diamond and low diamond to take advantage of this stupid system. How guilds are paired each season is also a joke. Why not completely random from all diamond level guilds.
Click to expand...
I think low diamond should either be a separate level that doesn't count VP or victories towards the championship. Or all diamond guilds should be randomly grouped together.
 
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