Guild Battlegrounds Arrival Feedback

[Vger]

There is no way to win a fight with diamonds, why are we required to use diamonds to win negotiating?

You are only required to use diamonds for negotiations if you have a silly notion in your head that you are entitled to win 100% of the time.
If that's the way you are thinking about it, then you are going to waste a LOT of diamonds.

You aren't going to solve every negotiation in the number of turns allowed. So just try again when that happens, don't squander diamonds.
Yes, it costs you some goods. When you fight, it can cost you some troops, even when you win.
It's just the cost of doing business.

I've been tracking my success in GBG negotiations. Right now, I'm winning 70% of the time. My sample size is still too small to know if that is going to be my long term average, but it's starting to feel ballpark right-ish.
Knowing that I will win 70% of the time means I never consider it worthwhile to spend diamonds for the win.

 

[DeletedUser37581]

I've been tracking my success in GBG negotiations. Right now, I'm winning 70% of the time. My sample size is still too small to know if that is going to be my long term average, but it's starting to feel ballpark right-ish.

Here are my stats since I changed my data recording process:

Number of items to choose	Successful	Total	Win percent
4	504	544	92.6%
5	971	1254	77.4%
6	774	1387	55.8%

 

[Vger]

Here are my stats since I changed my data recording process...

TY @dontwannaname. Your sample size is about an order of magnitude larger than mine. Your numbers are a bit better in each category than mine, but not by much. Sample size + my DOH!!! moments probably make it a wash. Overall, you are at 70.6% right? I'm at 69.9%. So my 70% win estimate seems to hold up.

Anyone else tracking this?

 

[Ctik]

Diamonds to Insta Heal Troops between a 2 wave fight = winning with diamonds

Single wave... where can I spend diamonds to win?
Ah yes, there isnt a way.
You only looked at half the problem.


And when I talk about the 6 goods for negotiating, Im talking about right out the gate. This RNG BS INNO thinks is best for every part of the game is too much (ridiculous). When fighting, even if there are more or less troops to fight, they are all of the same strength. It starts low and goes up. Negotiating does not. You could have 6 goods the very first negotiation of the day... THAT is not balance.

There are a multitude of ways to increase your attack strength, even the tavern. Negotiating? Nope, nothing, nada, zilch. To f'n bad if you are not setup to fight and decided down the path of goods. But, ah... INNO says "You have too many goods" we will now relieve you of them in GBG if you want to participate.

 

[Darth Mole]

Here are my stats since I changed my data recording process:

Number of items to choose	Successful	Total	Win percent
4	504	544	92.6%
5	971	1254	77.4%
6	774	1387	55.8%

Gotta admire this level of dedication!
Good on ya Stat Man!

 

[DeletedUser32348]

does advances of guild B drop after guild A takes it over?
i'm seeing something like that in Platinum league.
can anyone share some info on it?

 

[BruteForceAttack]

does advances of guild B drop after guild A takes it over?
i'm seeing something like that in Platinum league.
can anyone share some info on it?

Guild B advancement is cut by 50% when guild A takes over the province, however if guild B loses the connected province all advancement is lost.

 

[Algona]

This RNG BS INNO thinks is best for every part of the game is too much (ridiculous).

You do understand that we all play with the same RNG? That even if INNO makes changes you'll still have to use the same one everyone else uses?

Instead of whining about 6 Choice negotiations, look around, or maybe even ask nicely and maybe, just maybe, someone might tell you how to take care of it.

Although why anyone would want to help you get better at GBG is beyond me.

 

[BruteForceAttack]

In member activity tab please consider adding attrition value.

 

[Ctik]

You do understand that we all play with the same RNG? That even if INNO makes changes you'll still have to use the same one everyone else uses?

Instead of whining about 6 Choice negotiations, look around, or maybe even ask nicely and maybe, just maybe, someone might tell you how to take care of it.

Although why anyone would want to help you get better at GBG is beyond me.

What is in the water that some of you in here drink?

First, I am not 'whining'. To those of you that wish to constantly reply with the 'stop whining', need to really step back and look at their own post. With your same reasoning, you are also whining about others feedback.. This really needs to stop. You are not contributing to the discussion.

Second. I am very very well aware of how to 'play' the RNG game in GBG. I know how to switch targets. But when you only have 1 or 2 possible targets and they both have 6 goods for the first, second and even third, fourth, fifth, etc etc turns, this is not balanced. I am giving feedback to INNO, not to you. Do you work for INNO? Some of you think you do and should stop. See, that is feedback to you, not to INNO.

 

[Agent327]

I am very very well aware of how to 'play' the RNG game in GBG. I know how to switch targets. But when you only have 1 or 2 possible targets and they both have 6 goods for the first, second and even third, fourth, fifth, etc etc turns, this is not balanced. I am giving feedback to INNO, not to you. Do you work for INNO? Some of you think you do and should stop. See, that is feedback to you, not to INNO.

And that isn't whining?

 

[Ctik]

And that isn't whining?

HUH?

 

[Salsuero]

By what measure are they not weak opponents if you are capable of dominating them?

By the measure of the fact that not everyone can be #1 in a world. For the most obvious example of my point: the #2-#7 guilds might be easily dominated by the #1 guild and still be plenty strong and capable of dominating every other guild in that world. Not everything is black and white.

 

[Salsuero]

4 players against 46 players.. wow. such balance!
This is just nuts.

And enough of the 6 goods in 3 tries BS!

There is no way to win a fight with diamonds, why are we required to use diamonds to win negotiating?

The best strategy in negotiations is often knowing when to quit before the 2nd (or 3rd) turn. Just because you can try for another turn doesn't mean it is wise to do so. Not everything in this game is a guaranteed win just for trying... why don't people understand how games actually work? This isn't a show up and win everything easily game. How boring would that be long-term? What makes you think it should be and still be fun to play?

Single wave... where can I spend diamonds to win?
Ah yes, there isnt a way.

You can spend diamonds to recover killed units and/or heal damaged ones, even after single-wave battles. In two-wave battles, that can mean getting to the second wave if you don't have any non-Rogue units left to proceed. No, it's not required... but neither is the extra turn in negotiations. In negotiations, four- and five-turn negotiations are like single-wave battles. The six-turn negotiations are like two-wave battles. Some folks spend diamonds on the latter. The rest of us don't.

When fighting, even if there are more or less troops to fight, they are all of the same strength. It starts low and goes up. Negotiating does not. You could have 6 goods the very first negotiation of the day... THAT is not balance.

Ok, but it's so cheap to negotiate "right out of the gate" (at zero attrition) that it's not really something one should be complaining about. They aren't impossible to win (in fact, as has been demonstrated, quite the opposite). Why don't you lose those low-attrition battles? You've learned how not to (assuming you don't). Learn when to give up ahead of time on negotiations and get better at winning them.

Second. I am very very well aware of how to 'play' the RNG game in GBG.

And yet you haven't figured out how to play the negotiation game, apparently.

I am giving feedback to INNO, not to you.

No, you GAVE feedback to Inno. And THEN you decided to respond to the feedback from players. That is where you opened yourself up to criticism and killed your ability to "rightly" complain about it.

I've spent a lot of time collecting my Alcatraz to build up my troops and I've worked on many GBs, recurring quests, and done lots of aiding to build up my goods treasury. This is how you win... not by complaining that you don't have enough of one or the other. That's not winning... that's whining!

 

[Salsuero]

In member activity tab please consider adding attrition value.

Why? Knowing this about your members doesn't matter.

 

[mamboking053]

And when I talk about the 6 goods for negotiating, Im talking about right out the gate. This RNG BS INNO thinks is best for every part of the game is too much (ridiculous). When fighting, even if there are more or less troops to fight, they are all of the same strength. It starts low and goes up. Negotiating does not. You could have 6 goods the very first negotiation of the day... THAT is not balance.

There are a multitude of ways to increase your attack strength, even the tavern. Negotiating? Nope, nothing, nada, zilch. To f'n bad if you are not setup to fight and decided down the path of goods. But, ah... INNO says "You have too many goods" we will now relieve you of them in GBG if you want to participate.

I agree, it's not really a fair comparison with fighting. With the negotiations, you have a chance to lose regardless of how you play. By learning tips and tricks you are really just reducing the risk of losing. But while negotiations is meant to be an alternative to battle, I don't think it was stated to be an equal alternative, necessarily. I think it was meant to be a less favorable option to combat. The recent change to the negotiations in GbG seems to imply this. Combat is the focus of FoE.

I can't speak for Inno as to why RNG. Difficulty can be created by increasing the prices, the number of goods, and the types of goods needed. They chose this method and if I'm correct in my opinion above, it fulfills the need to make negotiations a pricey alternative to fighting.

In the end, however, everyone is playing with the same rules so the same impediments you have, everyone else has. I have guildies who clear over a thousand negotiations per GbG session. If you can't compete with resources and you can't compete with military, then you are unprepared to play GbG.

 

[DeletedUser]

And when I talk about the 6 goods for negotiating, Im talking about right out the gate. This RNG BS INNO thinks is best for every part of the game is too much (ridiculous). When fighting, even if there are more or less troops to fight, they are all of the same strength. It starts low and goes up. Negotiating does not. You could have 6 goods the very first negotiation of the day... THAT is not balance.

I'm thinking that if you have to use 6 of each good on your first negotiation, then you either negotiated some late the night before after the reset at midnight Eastern time, or you fought a few battles first. In case anyone hasn't noticed (I know most have) ATTRITION IS NOT CALCULATED SEPARATELY FOR FIGHTING AND NEGOTIATING. If you fight enough battles to get your attrition to 5 in your first action of the day and then switch to negotiating, the attrition value for that first negotiation will already be at 5.

 

[Salsuero]

I can't speak for Inno as to why RNG. Difficulty can be created by increasing the prices, the number of goods, and the types of goods needed. They chose this method and if I'm correct in my opinion above, it fulfills the need to make negotiations a pricey alternative to fighting.

I negotiate far more than I fight in GBg because goods are much easier to gather than units and it is much cheaper (for me) to negotiate at high levels by gathering enough goods, compared to losing troops due to increasing difficulty. Just because one play style finds it easier to fight than negotiate doesn't mean all of them do. Some will find it much less pricey to negotiate than to fight. Having a high-level Château Frontenac and running lots of recurring quests, you'll have plenty of goods. All of the special buildings and multiple GBs dedicated to giving goods, and the ones like Seed Vault that give you goods for aiding... even more plentiful. There just aren't as many ways to gather tons of units. So, losing units is much worse in my opinion. If I need more goods to continue working on a territory immediately, I can try to trade for them or run some UBQs. Generating new units on the fly isn't necessarily THAT easy.

And let's not forget... negotiations are worth two fights. I think everyone has neglected to mention this as a BONUS to spending those goods.

 

[DeletedUser40047]

Whatever way you play it is costly, which is why my guild has worked on the diplomacy aspect through multiple treaties to freeze the map in place after a quick early power grab using diamond-completed seige camps to rush the inner map. After the initial expenditure we are saving a boatload of resources this way. I do wish that Inno had included the basic features of the supposedly inferior GvG such as ability to kill your own seige, and have records of battle and a trusted command structure - I mean, if they want this to replace GvG in the hearts and minds, build on and improve it, don't dumb it down!

 

[Ctik]

The best strategy in negotiations is often knowing when to quit before the 2nd (or 3rd) turn. Just because you can try for another turn doesn't mean it is wise to do so. Not everything in this game is a guaranteed win just for trying... why don't people understand how games actually work? This isn't a show up and win everything easily game. How boring would that be long-term? What makes you think it should be and still be fun to play?

You can spend diamonds to recover killed units and/or heal damaged ones, even after single-wave battles. In two-wave battles, that can mean getting to the second wave if you don't have any non-Rogue units left to proceed. No, it's not required... but neither is the extra turn in negotiations. In negotiations, four- and five-turn negotiations are like single-wave battles. The six-turn negotiations are like two-wave battles. Some folks spend diamonds on the latter. The rest of us don't.

I see I need to put this into a very simple form for everyone to understand.

New day, 0 Attrition.
Lets do a fight. I am in Iron Age and have nothing yet for additional attack/defense bonus.
I have some unattached troops from doing GE so I give it a try. I am up against an army of 8 mixed troops. Chances are slim I can win this.
I start the fight anyways. I start losing.
What can I do to make it through?
Spend Diamonds? Nope.
Some kind of heal? Nope.
So I now have only two options.
- Surrender (Loss)
- Keep going until all my troops are dead (Loss)

Alternate Time Line
New day, 0 Attrition.
Lets do a fight. I have some additional attack/defense bonus and even have the ability to use tavern boost.
I have some attached and unattached from doing GE. I am up against an army of 8 mixed troops.
I start the fight and start losing.
What can I do to make it through?
Spend Diamonds? Nope.
Some kind of heal? Nope.
So I now have only two options.
- Surrender (Loss)
- Keep going until all my troops are dead (Loss)
Hmm... same outcome. No way to possibly win.

Alternate Time Line
New day, 0 Attrition.
Lets do a negotiation.
I am given 6 goods to try to solve in those 3 turns.
I can now look for another province, hoping to find 4 or 5, but lets just say I dont. They are all 6.
I am very good at negotiating and fully understand the logic. I do logic puzzles for fun, this is childs play.
I start negotiating (im not going to give an example here).
I could stop and 'give up' as INNO wishes to call it, but for the sake of this example, we are trying to 'win'.
I use my 3 tries, but still need one more correct to win.
What are my options.
Any way to get an extra turn? Nope, Tavern dont work here like in a fight.
Ah.. look at this.. I can spend Diamonds!
I can now win, where I had no choice but to lose in a fight.

I'm thinking that if you have to use 6 of each good on your first negotiation, then you either negotiated some late the night before after the reset at midnight Eastern time, or you fought a few battles first.

I have to disagree with this. I have had 6 on days where I have not been able to do anything the prior day. INNO is clearly using the RNG to generate both the goods to be used and the number of goods. It doesnt matter what your attrition is at. I can have 4 goods of previous era when attrition is 1 or 50. And the next day have 6 goods of current era with 0, 3, 4, 10 or 20 attrition.