Guild vs Guild Improvements Feedback

[DeletedUser34239]

Right now, allowing bronze age troops allows ALL members of our guild to participate and help out, both with DA and with setting sieges and breaking sieges when the enemy attacks with spears. Removing those will make the AA map more exclusive and take away a lot of the team aspect where the whole guild feels like they can contribute and help.

 

[DeletedUser34239]

I don't see how the troops becoming random troops from the highest era will help with point farming. It seems to me, for the most part, it will limit the point farming to the top players, making it exclusive and widening the gap between the top players and the "regular" players on the world. Only the folks that can handle the highest era troops will be doing the point farming and they will fill up the tiles with the lowest era troops they can and then release it so they can go up against the troops that give them the most points.

 

[DeletedUser34239]

I agree with most of this. The exception is the bronze age troops. While bronze age players cannot do gvg, allowing spears in AA has really allowed a lot of our lower era players to become very involved. And when I say lower era, I mean below FE. Spears are quick and easy, anyone can make them and help their team. These folks don't have unlimited troops to help with, but allowing the spears makes it so that they kind of do. Taking that away will make it harder and harder to help train new folks and keep their interest in gvg.

I'm certainly interested in some of these changes, but have to echo thoughts already posted here.

4hr Re-calcs: I think every 4hrs will be too excessive. Doing every 6hrs, 8hrs, or 12hrs seems to make more sense. Both so guilds can still use some bits of strategy, but also because of the addictive nature of games. Do not discount the fact that people can and do fall victim to addiction without realizing it, and having too many re-calc times could impact a portion of players in that they completely forego real life for the game, until someone in their life intervenes and then you 100% lose that player (and while this is not Inno's fault, if you can avoid/mitigate it, why wouldn't you?). I know this sounds extreme, but I still remember the days of WoW cults. They may still exist, but hopefully not like they used to. Very scary stuff. Having multiple re-calcs is a good idea because of time zones, but you need balance here. Too many and you totally destroy what GvG is good for: strategy and team-building. Too few and you don't resolve the actual issues. So I think no more than 3 or 4 a day is appropriate. 6 is absolutely overkill.

Also on this note, sure you won't be able to move HQ more than once a day, but it won't matter with re-calc being so often. The HQ move becomes irrelevant. So, while I think it's admirable that you want multiple re-calc times, I do think something else has to be put in place to keep the HQ move relevant. Perhaps instead of the sectors losing protection at each re-calc, they have a time-down? So after the first re-calc they can be hit, but the defense is high. In addition, since they're in time-down, you cannot attack from them. IE: If the sector now, after re-calc, would have a 75% bonus to the defending armies, then with the new multi-re-calcs we instead would see that on the first re-calc of the day the sector gets a 175% bonus (so comparable to GE, essentially). At the second one, that drops to a 125% bonus. At the third, 100% bonus, so on and so forth until 24hrs are up, the shield comes down completely, and you're at the standard 75% bonus and thus out of the time-down. The graphic doesn't even have to be that involved, you could just have the little protection shield slowly draining until it's empty and gone (which will also indicate when the 24hrs are up) This way the map stays fluid (as I assume is part of the goal), but allows for some strategy to still be at work AND the HQ move is still important. Heck, it'd even open up for some interesting strategy at timing when to take sectors.

I would have it remain that the HQ move can only be done once every 24hrs, and that dropped sectors cannot be retaken for 24hrs.

Personally, I'm excited at the prospect that this gives to making GvG more competitive, which in turn could add to the excitement. It just needs to be done well.

Point Farming: It definitely makes it more interesting if by dropping a sector the troops are randomized. This will change it so that if you want to do a retake to protect something a little longer, then you can't just fill with rogues and go for it. However, I absolutely agree that on AA it needs to default to the LOWEST era possible, and not the highest. Defaulting to the highest era will only exclude everyone not in that era essentially, but as others have pointed out, allow players to farm points by just filling in with garbage low era troops and dropping it so it becomes high era troops.

AA and Spears: I cannot deny that there was a lot of potential to use AA as a training ground to teach new folks GvG because of this, on the cheap. However, this is one change I can live with. Bronze Age players cannot even play in GvG (you don't unlock it until Iron Age), and so with that in mind I can understand restricting troop age to a minimum of Iron Age. This will actually force some new strategy.

Checkboxes: I like that you won't have to see certain things again, to make sieging faster. On that same logic, can we please remove the menu to enter a sector when it is under siege, and make it so any sector you're sieging acts like an NPC sector under siege? By this I mean that you just automatically pop open the battle screen to select troops, instead of having to open a menu, and select the battle function. When I'm trying to take a sector I honestly do not care about the guild profile of the one who owns it or similar. Similarly, if a sector I own is under siege, please just let me click on the sector and have it open to my troop selection. You can't move HQ or release a sector that's under attack anyways, no need for the menu options.

That's all that comes to mind right off. I look forward to seeing what bugs are going to be fixed, since that is mentioned. If I think of anything else, I'll gladly share it. I love GvG, so I'm happy to see some attention being paid to it. I just hope that this truly improves GvG.

 

[saknika]

I agree with most of this. The exception is the bronze age troops. While bronze age players cannot do gvg, allowing spears in AA has really allowed a lot of our lower era players to become very involved. And when I say lower era, I mean below FE. Spears are quick and easy, anyone can make them and help their team. These folks don't have unlimited troops to help with, but allowing the spears makes it so that they kind of do. Taking that away will make it harder and harder to help train new folks and keep their interest in gvg.

Not particularly. Just means you need to be willing to work the lower era maps. I was trained on the LMA and Indy maps. I've trained many on the Iron Age map. All because at the time we were doing the training, the highest era player we had in guild was PME, and they were not a GvGer. So training can be done elsewhere. Plus, since those in higher eras can work in lower eras, no reason why you can't get the teamwork going by working lower era maps. AA might be where the best points are, but likewise since it's so cheap to siege with medals thanks to Arc, we don't need it to also be super easy because people can just generate spears like they're going out of style. Iron Age won't add that much more complexity to it, but it will force a bit more planning-ahead.

 

[DeletedUser34239]

It changes a TON. See other folks comments.

It has never been an All-Age map. Removing bronze age units does not change a thing.

 

[DeletedUser34239]

Not particularly. Just means you need to be willing to work the lower era maps. I was trained on the LMA and Indy maps. I've trained many on the Iron Age map. All because at the time we were doing the training, the highest era player we had in guild was PME, and they were not a GvGer. So training can be done elsewhere. Plus, since those in higher eras can work in lower eras, no reason why you can't get the teamwork going by working lower era maps. AA might be where the best points are, but likewise since it's so cheap to siege with medals thanks to Arc, we don't need it to also be super easy because people can just generate spears like they're going out of style. Iron Age won't add that much more complexity to it, but it will force a bit more planning-ahead.

That will just make this game more of a time suck than it already is. I do train a lot of our folks on the lower maps, however, many of our strongest fighters are the ones that came to calc and helped on AA as they were learning. I did it, too, when I was in the lower eras. It's much more of an opportunity for the whole team, not to build separate teams.

 

[DeletedUser34239]

It only ever became AA, cause there were no more maps after Future. Highest age players have always had an advantage and it does not make any difference if they place highest age troops, or the NPC does.

The difference is, if they place them, they can run out and they have to manage their resources. If the npc places them, it's free high era troops.

 

[DeletedUser5230]

Right now, allowing bronze age troops allows ALL members of our guild to participate and help out, both with DA and with setting sieges and breaking sieges when the enemy attacks with spears. Removing those will make the AA map more exclusive and take away a lot of the team aspect where the whole guild feels like they can contribute and help.

I mean, it also allows Higher Age players to just sit there Build Spearfighter Barracks for Sieges/Defense Armies, and have 0 Cost whatsoever to their Army, and also give you 0 Points, while they get Points, all because you have an Actual Defense versus their 8 Spear Sieges.
Of course, some people then proceed to also Delete their Spearfighter Barracks once they're done with them Via Sieging, or Defense Armies.

 

[saknika]

That will just make this game more of a time suck than it already is. I do train a lot of our folks on the lower maps, however, many of our strongest fighters are the ones that came to calc and helped on AA as they were learning. I did it, too, when I was in the lower eras. It's much more of an opportunity for the whole team, not to build separate teams.

If not being able to use spearfighters breaks a team that badly, it might be time to reevaluate said team. I don't intend to come across as cold, but part of GvG is strategy and planning. Some things can happen quickly, and sometimes you need to plan a long game of building up Alcatraz a bit and producing enough troops to do a campaign if that's what you're after.

 

[Ebs the Drunk]

*opens changes*
*ctrl+f*
*searches for "mobile"*
"Not found."
Bummer. *closes changes*

 

[DeletedUser]

A concern I have iupper age guild building lower age troops and battling in the lower ages.
To me that is unfair in away. Each age must be used by the players from that age only, so
as to make it a lot more fair in battling. This why some players do not do GvG, because of the
upper ages rank, and power that give their troops an advantage. for Example.. only High Middle Age
players can battle on the HMA in that board it would be a lot fairer to all players if they only battle in their
Ages/Era's against others of the same Era/Age they are in..

That would never fly because it would restrict anyone over FE to the AA map. I can see the posts now.

 

[DeletedUser28124]

This is the GvG killer. It was hard enough to hold our own against these diamond healing script kiddies once a day, now they turn that into 6. Goodnight. But hey, the plan is probably to drop interest in GvG so they can pin that on the players when they roll out their shiny new GvG toy in 6 months and kill this one off for good. Ever see the movie "Major League", where the new owner is sabotaging her own team so it stops generating revenue and she has an excuse to move it to Miami? We're living it. Time to find a new game

Could not agree with you more, if they implement that change to make point farming easier that is pretty much the writing on the wall, time to find a new game, these developers are clueless and it's difficult to even fathom that they could view what they proposed as a solution to the problem they were claiming to fix without knowing what we have stated about it. I mean, is this April Fools day or are they really just that lacking in knowledge about their own product? There is dumb, there is scary dumb, and then there is malicious ignorance, and I am beginning to think it's the latter. Here is what I think is really going on. The original developers of GVG are all but gone from the company and these new guys feel stuck holding the bag for legacy content they didn't think up and develop themselves and they hate it and hate that we love it so much and dislike every single thing they have done since joining the team. So, they will now do everything in their power to once and for all completely ruin it.

 

[DeletedUser10789]

Ever think about the fact that some guilds might like to use AA as a training ground for GvG and with the advent of Bronze Aged troops, it allows a lower level player to, in essence get their feet wet in learning GvG without losing all their troops. Let's not forget, lower aged player usually have less troops and struggle to have enough troops. But all of these changes seem to be a killer to GvG. All Ages will be just the highest aged map now and the inability for a guild to train, messes up lower aged players who may just want to learn. It still blows my mind about who makes these changes, maybe you should hire people to play the game and know what these changes really do and how they effect all of the players on the game. Yet another epic fail. Champ Farming, YES, that's good to try to stop but allowing the highest aged troops to be placed instead, does not defeat this, it only encourages Champ Farming. Can you understand why.? Higher aged troops = higher points....That's the definition of Champ Farming. Wow, changes that make little to no sense. As usual, great changes to destroy a game.

Hey novel idea, just fix the overload on the servers and pay up for more capacity for less lag. Much easier and simpler solution, no.?

 

[DeletedUser28124]

Ever thing about the fact that some guilds might like to use AA as a training ground for GvG and with the advent of Bronze Aged troops, it allows a lower level player to, in essence get their feet wet in learning GvG without losing all their troops. Let's not forget, lower aged player usually have less troops and struggle to have enough troops. But all of these changes seem to be a killer to GvG. All Ages will be just the highest aged map now and the inability for a guild to train, messes up lower aged players who may just want to learn. It still blows my mind about who makes these changes, maybe you should hire people to play the game and know what these changes really do and how they effect all of the players on the game. Yet another epic fail. Champ Farming, YES, that's good to try to stop but allowing the highest aged troops to be placed instead, does not defeat this, it only encourages Champ Farming. Can you understand why.? Higher aged troops = higher points....That's the definition of Champ Farming. Wow, changes that make little to no sense. As usual, great changes to destroy a game.

Hey novel idea, just fix the overload on the servers and pay up for more capacity for less lag. Much easier and simpler solution, no.?

BINGO and exactly WHY spear fighters should not be eliminated, Seems to me they have a bit of tunnel vision here and somehow think "Champs" are the problem lol. Ridiculous. It's simply a matter of scaling up the siege costs to compensate for the ever inflating level of player development. You can't have balanced play on GVG map if powerful guilds can basically do whatever they want for FREE due to low cost sieges. Increase the cost per siege by a factor of 4 and all of this is settled immediately. It's just that simple. Like DUH.. take a look at how the other maps work. Even a huge guild can only spend so much because the resources are finite, they are not finite in AA they are INFINITE.. because there is NOTHING else to spend medals on in this game except expansions and GE attempts. Start charging million of medals for techs in higher ages.... quadruple siege cost in AA and the map is Suddenly FAIR AND BALANCED again.

 

[Emberguard]

I don't see how the troops becoming random troops from the highest era will help with point farming.

It means players can’t place specific troops that they can steam roll without effort

 

[DeletedUser28124]

One final word on your so called "fix" for point farming and this ridiculous proposal.
Let me tell you exactly what the big guilds in AA that are currently doing this will do.
They will simply have a few member from one of their sister guilds or "ghost" guilds mosey their way to the very back coast of their protected lands and set up shop as a champ farmers. They will technically be a totally separate guild, but serve the exact same purpose. One guild will load with champs and simply let he other guild take the tile and vice versa and go back and forth. This is a completely simple work around to your so called fix and will be happening within a week of your so called "fix" . AGAIN for the LAST and FINAL time! You have to make the cost to point farm these tile unfeasible for them. If their actions in point farming risk bankrupting the guild of medals and losing all their land ... they will not be doing it. SIMPLE . KEEP IT SIMPLE.

 

[DeletedUser28124]

It means players can’t place specific troops that they can steam roll without effort

Random troops of any type are no problem for players with 800 percent attack boost and can be steam rolled just as easy as an all champ army can. The only difference will be about 1/3 less points per tile they do it on. But that problem is already moot considering INNO's proposal will make up for it by allowing them to do it six time per day on multiple tiles with free troops they don't even have to build now. I apologize, but I just can't believe how utterly stupid this idea is.

 

[Salsuero]

you nerfed the one interesting thing about them (tvp pvp effect)

Respectfully, I disagree. I was very happy that this happened as the reverse would've been terrible to game balance.

The only GBs worse are the happiness GBs (col, lotus, GS, etc)

Once again, I disagree. There are many top players in my world with one or both of the newest GBs that don't have some of the GBs you didn't mention, which implies a higher position of worth than simply above the "happiness" GBs. They have value... just not to you.

 

[DeletedUser7398]

The 4 hrs for defense shields sounds like a terrible plan. Most active guilds are already spending massive resources with 1 reset a day. And with no addition hq move or available drops it will be enough frustration for many to quit. I agree with comments regarding the current issues having yet to be resolved and that massive changes may be better rolled out after they are fixed ..and in a more measured manner .. but the 'don't show this again' can't come fast enough
Assuming this is going to happen a couple thoughts. If massive lag is due to high reset traffic and the additional 'resets' are intended to potential alleviate this consider tying each guild reset time to the military production boosts and rework the figures for the leveling of the guild to compensate, the higher level guilds would have shorter shield but also quicker hq moves and drops and there would not be a crazy feeding frenzy at 8 pm est, this could also be in combination with more resets so a base cycle of 8 hrs for example with a military production boost of 25% would result in a 6 hr shielding
Also, consider adding rewards for quests that would allow individual member to use and possibly 'add a shield', 'move a hq', or even 'attack a shielded sector'
As far as drops that should might also be adjusted I like the idea of giving the founders and leaders more, logistically I am unsure how easy it would be to give different folks different amount but if possible then it wold be convenient. If my prior suggestion were implemented (8 hrs x military boost per cycle) then I would say 3 drops in a cycle but no more than 6 - 9 in 24 hrs sounds about right
As far as the farming I think all dropped sector on all maps should get random units of the same age they are ..if they are no age then they should be totally random

 

[DeletedUser33595]

These changes are awesome!!! Make GvG playable outside calc, discourage the point farming and stop the unfairness of placing seiges with spears at 15 secs a pop and make the fights mean something. Spices it up and allows us to have fun again. Thank you INNO!!!! Please please please implement this!!