Is GBG attrition on a given sector be limited to 67%?

[Emberguard]

Thing is fighting was a viable option up until the top Guilds on a map started working together. As soon as the two top Guilds of each map stopped attacking each other the dynamics changed drastically from all 8 Guilds being capable of getting on the map, and staying on the map, to now not being able to get on the map at all (without an agreement) because two Guilds working together makes for a drastically stronger position than a Guild on its own.

It's not just needing to get some players from each Guild wanting to fight in order to get fighting going on a world. It's needing the top Guilds of each map to attack each other so they're using up their resources against the toughest opponent in the room. If the toughest Guilds are saving up their resources by not attacking the toughest opponent, then it's not going to matter what the other 6 Guilds do unless they're able to match the strength of the top two Guilds on the map combined.

This of course assumes that even if we got such a situation where the fighting got back into the game that the enthusiasm for Guild Battlegrounds in general would still be there. One of the contributing factors for why we even got farming was from players gradually realizing the winner was practically decided within the first few hours of each season and then going "well now what do we do for the next 2 weeks?"

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Thing is fighting was a viable option up until the top Guilds on a map started working together. As soon as the two top Guilds of each map stopped attacking each other the dynamics changed drastically from all 8 Guilds being capable of getting on the map, and staying on the map, to now not being able to get on the map at all (without an agreement) because two Guilds working together makes for a drastically stronger position than a Guild on its own.

It's not just needing to get some players from each Guild wanting to fight in order to get fighting going on a world. It's needing the top Guilds of each map to attack each other so they're using up their resources against the toughest opponent in the room. If the toughest Guilds are saving up their resources by not attacking the toughest opponent, then it's not going to matter what the other 6 Guilds do unless they're able to match the strength of the top two Guilds on the map combined.

I agree with you 100% but suggest that the word "unless" be replaced with "until". We've been discussing this, in various threads, for a very long time. During this time I've been in top 10 guilds on my two main worlds. We regularly swap with 1-3 other guilds which leave the remaining guilds on the beach. The thing is that these "remaining guilds" are pretty much the same from season to season. Years have passed yet these guilds remain unable to participate in the GBG farming that has become ubiquitous. I'm not sure how much sympathy is due them.

 

[Emberguard]

I agree with you 100% but suggest that the word "unless" be replaced with "until". We've been discussing this, in various threads, for a very long time. During this time I've been in top 10 guilds on my two main worlds. We regularly swap with 1-3 other guilds which leave the remaining guilds on the beach. The thing is that these "remaining guilds" are pretty much the same from season to season. Years have passed yet these guilds remain unable to participate in the GBG farming that has become ubiquitous. I'm not sure how much sympathy is due them.

Here's the biggest catch with the "until" bit.

A Guild that always remains beached is never going to match your rate of growth. Because even if the opponent were super enthusiastic and put in 150% effort, your growth is going to be whatever amount of Forge Points, Guild Goods, Crowns etc etc you get during the season plus the growth that comes from Events.

Meanwhile your beached opponents growth will be restricted to only what they can get during Events, and any scraps if they manage to hit anything during Guild Battlegrounds

Of course due to human nature it's not possible to just hand everything to them and expect them to thrive. That could (ironically) be even more detrimental to their growth as then there's nothing to strive for. But the top Guilds are going to be growing at a much faster rate due to their positions at the top and the resources that grants them

 

[xivarmy]

I have seen several guilds populated with those who want to fight and not farm. They start out gung ho with that moist, shiny glaze covering their eyes which soon fades as the gloss wears off due to the fact that they are relentlessly beached. Season after failed, inglorious season. They always come to the realization that farming is much more lucrative, less time consuming and less expensive. Hands down.
Pipe dreams are just that. When they quit dreaming, they start cooperating. I mean, why would anyone of sound mind follow a path that is less beneficial and rewarding to them and their guild?

Once they wake up from their idealistic fog and accept the fact that they can get more benefit from cooperating with other guilds in maximizing rewards, they come to their senses and follow the more productive and rewarding path. Or they find a more productive, rewarding guild.
Either way, they leave behind the nonsense of thinking they can rule their world by fighting, and finally join the ranks of those who have found a better and more rewarding way to play the GBG game, well within the rules and limits set by the developers. Remember, this is not real life, this is a game.

Even if they were to be successful, what reward, greater than farming, would they receive? Bragging rights? Wow, that is so rewarding. Again, anyone of sound mind would much prefer FP's over any bragging rights. It is tough to level up GB's with bragging rights. Much easier with FP's. However, both bragging rights (if that is important to you) and FP's are already available to the winners as the game sits now. So, build a guild or join one that can offer such benefits. But thinking one can change the game by being idealistic or optimistic about such a change will always end in disappointment.

Just like real life, unfortunately.

I guess I'm not of sound mind Personally the game gives me more than enough FP these days. I have no great need for FPs, even on the newest of cities - and if I do want FP, I'd rather play events and build up a city that makes it passively rather than spending hours a day clicking away for it in perpetuity.

What I do need is entertainment from a game - which farming is decidedly not! I will be beached to the end of time before I play along with one of those god awful coop agreements

But that's the thing, you need everybody in the guild in agreement from the start that losing is better than farming (but winning is better than both). Not some dream of being the ones dictating terms, but committed to always playing without terms, no matter the consequences.

But you're right that those players are few and far between.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Here's the biggest catch with the "until" bit.

A Guild that always remains beached is never going to match your rate of growth. Because even if the opponent were super enthusiastic and put in 150% effort, your growth is going to be whatever amount of Forge Points, Guild Goods, Crowns etc etc you get during the season plus the growth that comes from Events.

Meanwhile your beached opponents growth will be restricted to only what they can get during Events, and any scraps if they manage to hit anything during Guild Battlegrounds

Of course due to human nature it's not possible to just hand everything to them and expect them to thrive. That could (ironically) be even more detrimental to their growth as then there's nothing to strive for. But the top Guilds are going to be growing at a much faster rate due to their positions at the top and the resources that grants them

You make a lot of sense. I agree that, all things being equal, it is difficult for weak guilds to close the gap between them and the top guilds when it comes to attack boosts. However, it is important remember that the only time that absolute guild strength is important is during the opening hour of each GBG season. During this time, the ability to endure high attrition is critical. This is where the top guilds generally excel. However, attrition is shared. So, if a weaker guild is able to show up on opening day in sufficient numbers they will be able to overcome any handicap they may have due to lower attack boosts of their members. After opening day, attack boosts don't matter as much because most of the fights are at zero, or low, attrition. During this time, the "weaker" guild just needs to show up with enough members to make the swaps move quickly. In summary, while attack boosts play an important role, sheer numbers, with modest boosts, should be able to carry the day. The weaker guild probably won't dominate but that's not the goal. The goal is capturing enough sectors on opening day to get a seat at the swap table.

 

[Xenosaur]

If we dont try to win what is the point of the game ?

Get rich or die tryin.... The game is about growing a city and obtaining the things to do that There is no master list in this game about accomplishments from bragging rights, that rolls up across all servers. I've suggested that for years - because it adds a small measure of additional competitiveness that rounds out the city building goals.

Farming came into existence in this game because it makes economic sense to partner for easy mutual rewards, vs fight for none by just holding land and saying you're the best.

Economic game theory stuff (undergrad, and some Master's courses...)


There are now (visible to everyone) fatal flaws in what GBG is, and how it works, that were exploited early on and are still being exploited. This November, starts GbG's 5th year, and the basic design is the same - we've been there and done that. Participation is near the low, and yes - it's boring. Yes, the rewards have been watered down, and it needs a refresh badly - in both design and execution.

Let's see what they come up with.

 

[honey55]

So what was innos original intent on gbg? Was it for farming or was it to actually compete to win? If it is to farm, i guess one should just accept what it is, but personally if in a top guild. It isn't really fun holding sectors for hours hoping the other guilds will wake up. And being in a weaker guild to me isn't fun either, being handed tiles to take. I was in a guild before where toward the end they were excited cause we were left a tile to take. I don't want to be treated like a child. It would be nice if we could all compete at the level we're at. When we're up against another top guild, it's actually alot more fun. Seasons like we've had recently, are very boring.

 

[qaccy]

and i think the way it is set up now probably sells lots of diamonds

I have a feeling GBG doesn't actually lead to very many diamond sales. After all, the busiest farmers generally make more diamonds from GBG than they'll ever have to spend. It's probably the best source of diamonds in the game currently. Free diamonds don't earn Inno anything directly.

 

[honey55]

I have a feeling GBG doesn't actually lead to very many diamond sales. After all, the busiest farmers generally make more diamonds from GBG than they'll ever have to spend. It's probably the best source of diamonds in the game currently. Free diamonds don't earn Inno anything directly.

That's not my experience all the time. I've known leaders who donated lots of diamonds who weren't the top fighters.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

I have a feeling GBG doesn't actually lead to very many diamond sales. After all, the busiest farmers generally make more diamonds from GBG than they'll ever have to spend. It's probably the best source of diamonds in the game currently. Free diamonds don't earn Inno anything directly.

Not directly but if you remove the incentive to up your attack through the roof then it follows that sales will drop. Q has about 14 heavy spenders on the events ($500-$1000 per event) and they are all farmers.

 

[Jackshat]

Love the direction of this topic.

No, it certainly won't be easy toppling the terror of the "Farming Syndicate". But, we're gonna have one helluva time in Easy Company trying to do just that.

When a big bad feels Easy's sting and calls on their lackey guilds for help, "Admiral Ackbar" is our war cry!

 

[Darkest.Knight]

You're right about that, gone just a bit off topic, lol.

 

[Jackshat]

I guess I'm not of sound mind Personally the game gives me more than enough FP these days. I have no great need for FPs, even on the newest of cities - and if I do want FP, I'd rather play events and build up a city that makes it passively rather than spending hours a day clicking away for it in perpetuity.

What I do need is entertainment from a game - which farming is decidedly not! I will be beached to the end of time before I play along with one of those god awful coop agreements

But that's the thing, you need everybody in the guild in agreement from the start that losing is better than farming (but winning is better than both). Not some dream of being the ones dictating terms, but committed to always playing without terms, no matter the consequences.

But you're right that those players are few and far between.

Nor me. What could be more fun than finding a way to completely disrupt the Farming Syndicate and liberate the beached?

 

[UBERhelp1]

I have a feeling GBG doesn't actually lead to very many diamond sales. After all, the busiest farmers generally make more diamonds from GBG than they'll ever have to spend. It's probably the best source of diamonds in the game currently. Free diamonds don't earn Inno anything directly.

I would argue that GBG is the biggest time waster in the game, so they're able to give their whales something to spend on to reach higher attrition, or fight longer. It's more of a time sink to keep players from getting bored than a feature designed to be spent on. It also lets Inno point to event buildings and say, "See? You still need this even more insane attack boost building so that you can do two more fights!"

 

[Dominator - X]

I guess I'm not of sound mind Personally the game gives me more than enough FP these days. I have no great need for FPs, even on the newest of cities - and if I do want FP, I'd rather play events and build up a city that makes it passively rather than spending hours a day clicking away for it in perpetuity.

What I do need is entertainment from a game - which farming is decidedly not! I will be beached to the end of time before I play along with one of those god awful coop agreements

But that's the thing, you need everybody in the guild in agreement from the start that losing is better than farming (but winning is better than both). Not some dream of being the ones dictating terms, but committed to always playing without terms, no matter the consequences.

But you're right that those players are few and far between.

Entertainment to one person is boring to another. I get it. Maximizing rewards to assist in leveling up GB's is entertaining to me. So, farming is preferable to me for that reason. I hear GvG would satisfy what you are looking for, but, unfortunately, it can only be played on PC.

I will be beached to the end of time before I play along with one of those god awful coop agreements

That sounds so entertaining. I do agree with you, however, that you are not sound of mind. Farming is one of the great systems conceived, developed and fostered by INNO's players. It is human nature in action. They found a way to increase rewards, while doing so within the limits INNO set forth. Of course not everyone is going to like it. However, most don't like it because they are in a weak guild that can't compete. And, as is becoming increasingly popular, instead of putting forth the effort to improve the guild's strength, or finding a guild they can join that will accept them, where they can assist in farming and adding all those rewards to their inventory... they expect INNO to "fix" the problem for them. I mean, how many forum topics do we need in order for "those types" to express their displeasure with GBG, while lamenting INNO's refusal to intervene? Apparently not enough, since they keep popping up.
Farming is not going to go away anytime soon. Not unless INNO pulls the plug by making a drastic change. Rumor has it, they are busy working on doing just that. Which would not surprise me, given their track record. But rumors are just that until they become real. Or, fade away. Hopefully, this is just a rumor. We will see.

Oh, and I hope you brought some of those little umbrellas for those cool, refreshing adult (or non-adult) beverages. They add a little ambiance to beach life.

 

[Dominator - X]

Nor me. What could be more fun than finding a way to completely disrupt the Farming Syndicate and liberate the beached?

Watching you struggle to get out of your base (with mild success from time to time) and keeping you there.

 

[xivarmy]

Entertainment to one person is boring to another. I get it. Maximizing rewards to assist in leveling up GB's is entertaining to me. So, farming is preferable to me for that reason. I hear GvG would satisfy what you are looking for, but, unfortunately, it can only be played on PC.


That sounds so entertaining. I do agree with you, however, that you are not sound of mind. Farming is one of the great systems conceived, developed and fostered by INNO's players. It is human nature in action. They found a way to increase rewards, while doing so within the limits INNO set forth. Of course not everyone is going to like it. However, most don't like it because they are in a weak guild that can't compete. And, as is becoming increasingly popular, instead of putting forth the effort to improve the guild's strength, or finding a guild they can join that will accept them, where they can assist in farming and adding all those rewards to their inventory... they expect INNO to "fix" the problem for them. I mean, how many forum topics do we need in order for "those types" to express their displeasure with GBG, while lamenting INNO's refusal to intervene? Apparently not enough, since they keep popping up.
Farming is not going to go away anytime soon. Not unless INNO pulls the plug by making a drastic change. Rumor has it, they are busy working on doing just that. Which would not surprise me, given their track record. But rumors are just that until they become real. Or, fade away. Hopefully, this is just a rumor. We will see.

Oh, and I hope you brought some of those little umbrellas for those cool, refreshing adult (or non-adult) beverages. They add a little ambiance to beach life.

I'm on PC. But GvG was dated ages ago. and is as mindless a pastime as zero-attrition GBG farming Because it hasn't kept up with the development of cities (and won't, because it's no longer developed).

Players farming GBG is indeed their creation - players will optimize the fun out of any game

But if "the game" for FoE is GBG-clicker, I'm not playing it A season on the beach is just a season off - possibly with occasional visits to see what the sweaty farmers are up to and see if I can throw a wrench in their designs It's a shame the sub-max seasons are boring too now because many of the other guilds are actively trying to avoid winding up in max diamond again

I like new worlds mostly atm - the cities are at least fractionally interesting there.

 

[Dominator - X]

If we dont try to win what is the point of the game ?

I agree with that sentiment. However, winning means different things to different people. In this game, winning to me, is bathing in FP's. Farming assists in providing just such a bath. GBG is not a primary source of FP's for my city, but it helps. Some seasons more than others.
There is not just one way to play this game. However, there are methods that produce more rewards than others. I choose this one. I hold no contempt for those who choose another.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

I agree with that sentiment. However, winning means different things to different people. In this game, winning to me, is bathing in FP's. Farming assists in providing just such a bath. GBG is not a primary source of FP's for my city, but it helps. Some seasons more than others.
There is not just one way to play this game. However, there are methods that produce more rewards than others. I choose this one. I hold no contempt for those who choose another.

I completely agree with you one this but there is some other things that GbG farming does. It creates the necessity for a well functioning GBG leadership team , inter guild cooperation and communication and finally , respect in the world you are in if you do it very well with no drama and a lot of foresight. It's satisfying to me to lead a group of 60-80 ladies and men by guiding them through the map while building the strategy with the other guilds. It has also developed a lot of inter-guild friendships.

 

[Jackshat]

Watching you struggle to get out of your base (with mild success from time to time) and keeping you there.

Which only heightens the challenge and enjoyment.