Refining the "Aid" Algorithm

[DeletedUser14354]

I use decorations and I don't feel like I'm being punished for doing so. It's merely a matter of perception, in my opinion. I enjoy the element of the game that enforces strategical use of different elements. One could create a town built entirely of decorations. It wouldn't be the best use of space, but nothing Inno promotes in its advertising suggests that it is advertising the "best" town possible.

To the extent he has an argument, its a flawed one.

I rests on two key assumptions:

1. that it is somehow hypocritical for Inno to create/use/promote decorations, but not choose to allocate their priority in the aid algorithm in the precise fashion he desires, and

2. That it is somehow punishing a player if they put a decoration in their city and it gets polished.

I defy any reasonable person to make an argument for either of those points...

 

[Salsuero]

Make a proposal to allow a player to turn polishing off and the result is no happiness from polishable items built in your town. If it's truly only about the artwork and has nothing to do with gaining that extra polished happiness last (which I don't think you need in your town), then you shouldn't mind not getting any happiness at all from those items. If, however, you want to use the decos to beautify your town and you want the happiness... AND... you want to determine when the decos get polished... well then you are asking for a bit too much in my opinion.

 

[lemur]

Anybody read the thread I linked?

Yes, absolutely. Thank you for posting it. I didn't read every comment, but I did read much of the discussion — including the comment you pointed out.
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[Salsuero]

To the extent he has an argument, its a flawed one.

Yes, I know. But I was tired of hearing about how he thinks he's being "punished" for using decos. Since this is a "discussion" (and some folks feel like dragging me back in), I felt like I could add in my 2¢ about that particular aspect of the argument.

 

[DeletedUser14354]

Make a proposal to allow a player to turn polishing off and the result is no happiness from polishable items built in your town. If it's truly only about the artwork and has nothing to do with gaining that happiness last, then you shouldn't mind not getting any happiness at all. If, however, you want to use the decos to beautify your town and you want the happiness... AND... you want to determine when the decos get polished... well then you are asking for a bit too much in my opinion.

Its pretty clear this isn't about his proposal. For what its worth, he actually made a similar proposal last March. He actually first asked whether suggesting a change was permitted or not. Then he made his proposal anyway. Its worth reading: https://forum.us.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/changing-the-aid-algorithm.17858/.

You can tell it was well thought out even back then.

 

[lemur]

... but nothing Inno promotes in its advertising suggests that it is advertising the "best" town possible.

That's irrelevant. Their advertising shows viewers a false image of what the game looks like. But as people play the game and advance into the Iron Age and beyond, they soon discover that the actual game doesn't look like the advertising — because of how the "Aid" algorithm distorts player choices. That's a bait-and-switch.
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[DeletedUser]

Yes, the proposal is about removing the glaring inconsistency in the game between designing and promoting game decorations, on one hand, and then punishing players for actually using them.

But I see what you're doing. You're making the argument personal. That nicely distracts from the hypocrisy of InnoGames.
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With your logic, we should all be up in arms because there are no cartoon citizens/warriors/farmers running around our cities. I would use the ignore button on you and gutmeister, but I can't have you both running around the Forum misinforming and confusing newbies with your twisted logic without rebuttal.

 

[DeletedUser32389]

Its pretty clear this isn't about his proposal

The "proposal" is dead-in-the-water-weak-sauce. If you think you're going to get control over the AID algorithm your fooling yourself.

You can tell it was well thought out even back then

It's not well thought out at all. I continue to point out that it's poorly formed, has no plan of implementation, and is obviously asking for something for nothing.

Do you all have me on ignore? Lemur won't speak a word of "wisdom" my way. You all bicker like children but have nothing to say about actual game design...

 

[DeletedUser14354]

With your logic, we should all be up in arms because there are no cartoon citizens/warriors/farmers running around our cities. I would use the ignore button on you and gutmeister, but I can't have you both running around the Forum misinforming and confusing newbies with your twisted logic without rebuttal.

Can we go back to my first point about how his continued participation in this thread eliminates any chance of having an intelligent discussion about the merits of the aid algorithm?

 

[DeletedUser14354]

The "proposal" is dead-in-the-water-weak-sauce. If you think you're going to get control over the AID algorithm your fooling yourself.

It's not well thought out at all. I continue to point out that it's poorly formed, has no plan of implementation, and is obviously asking for something for nothing.

Just to be clear, its not me asking for any change to the algorithm.

 

[DeletedUser32389]

Just to be clear, its not me asking for any change to the algorithm.

Change is okay, I don't know enough to say fo sure it couldn't be changed, I just want us all to come together and at least agree that it will never be user controlled.*


*For free

Look, there's a button that will collect your city for you! Goes against the whole point of the game until, they charge you diamonds for that... Real money charged for real "work" done. I can imagine a diamond charge that allows you to direct aid, why not? Seems the only thing stopping them is the balance of the game

 

[DeletedUser31440]

I just want us all to come together and at least agree that it will never be user controlled.

Should I build a bonfire so that we can all sing Kumbaya and make smores while we're at it?

 

[DeletedUser32389]

Should I build a bonfire so that we can all sing Kumbaya and make smores while we're at it?

I can play the Uke

 

[Salsuero]

That's irrelevant. Their advertising shows viewers a false image of what the game looks like.

How so? I think anyone could build a town based on what is advertised. The game looks like the advertisements to me... as much as any game does -- you know -- without the crazy cool animations and things that just sell it as more "fun".

But as people play the game and advance into the Iron Age and beyond, they soon discover that the actual game doesn't look like the advertising — because of how the "Aid" algorithm distorts player choices. That's a bait-and-switch.

LOL -- no it's not. They can't possible advertise every single way a town might look, be setup by individual players, or what the "best" way to build your town might be. You just don't like that your choices don't give you the "best" results... or the results you wish they would. You're entire argument is irrelevant because you are basing it on a fallacy: the game punishes players. It does not. It simply does what it does based upon a set of rules. You can build ANY KIND OF TOWN your heart desires. The advertisements show you what a "pretty" town looks like. You can build one. And as I suggested, if you'd like no penalty (your words, not mine) to doing so, then you should suggest a checkbox in settings that turns off all polishing and happiness for those buildings that would be subject to polishing... effectively putting your town into a deco sandbox mode. Done deal. You win!

 

[lemur]

So, your continuing to argue otherwise has accomplished what exactly?

I was simply responding to your nonsense. But I see you simply repeating yourself and pretending that my rebuttals don't exist, so I suppose it's a hopeless case.

Moreover, I never mentioned your motivation in the first place. I said you wanted ...

Ponder this. How can a person "want" something without motivation? If you're not just playing childish games here, then your comments are a fine example of what Dunning and Kruger discovered.
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[DeletedUser31440]

I can play the Uke

Sweet jams, warm fire, and smores? Looks like I'm going to have to cancel all my weekend plans, hopefully my gf forgives me for abandoning her.

 

[lemur]

I can't have you both running around the Forum misinforming and confusing newbies with your twisted logic without rebuttal.

Awww ... I'm touched. Really. It's so sweet of you to devote so much of your time to me. Personal attacks from you are the highlight of my day. .
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[lemur]

They can't possibly advertise every single way a town might look ...

Your reply is an absurd straw man, because accurately depicting how the game looks in general does not necessitate showing "every single" permutation of village design.

You just don't like that your choices don't give you the "best" results.

Do you impugn motive much, Sal? .
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[DeletedUser14354]

Ponder this. How can a person "want" something without motivation? If you're not just playing childish games here, then your comments are a fine example of what Dunning and Kruger discovered.
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Irony.

 

[DeletedUser]

Your reply is an absurd straw man, because accurately depicting how the game looks in general does not necessitate showing "every single" permutation of village design.

Thank you. You finally put your foot in it. This one sentence from you negates your entire argument about how they advertise it versus how it is. And I'm sure you and @gutmeister won't understand that, but everyone else will. Now that that's over, let's discuss the merits of the Aid algorithm.