Snipping

[jaymoney23456]

sniping seems to have a bad name, nothing wrong with making a profit off of some ones GB, we all prosper this way. To me the only bad part about it is if you take a spot for less than face value on a friends GB, when you have the opportunity to pay to whole amount. Example spot is for 100 FP and you get it for 75, we ought not do a friend that way, go ahead and give the full 100 . Some people dont like it but why complain when your are getting free FP ?

Only contribute to a guildmates GB when its posted in a thread, unless there is an agreement.

Sniping is certainly fair game to players in your neighborhood but it isn't really fair to say no one should be upset about getting sniped-everyone doesn't prosper through sniping-the player that sniped a GB which should have only one definition (paying less than 1.9 for a spot and locking yourself in to get yourself a profit) benefits the sniper and negatively impacts the player being sniped
I suppose you could say the exception is those that self level but even then it benefits the sniper much more than the player getting sniped

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

Sniping is certainly fair game to players in your neighborhood but it isn't really fair to say no one should be upset about getting sniped-everyone doesn't prosper through sniping-the player that sniped a GB which should have only one definition (paying less than 1.9 for a spot and locking yourself in to get yourself a profit) benefits the sniper and negatively impacts the player being sniped
I suppose you could say the exception is those that self level but even then it benefits the sniper much more than the player getting sniped

If you don't self level and lock the positions correctly then you can't be sniped. For gawds sake never use swap threads , those people I refer to as cattle to be fed off of. I made 90% of my snipes because greedy guild founders still allow swap threads.

 

[Achaeus 1283 the Avenger]

I agree with you about sniping avoidance being the building owner's responsibility.

I don't understand the comment about swap threads being due to greedy guild founders. How do guild founders benefit unduly from swap threads, unless they themselves are sniping their guild members who use them?

IMO, swap threads mainly exist because a surprising number of players decline to use 1.9 threads either because they don't understand them, they are too lazy or other reasons.

I have encountered players who are insistent that all buildings posted on the 1.9 be levelled within 1 day. While I agree that once a building is posted on a 1.9, the owner should level it quickly, an insistence on 1 day is overly strict and doesn't acknowledge that not every player in a guild is on-line 24/7. Also, what is a building owner to do when nobody takes a posted spot for a long time?

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

I agree with you about sniping avoidance being the building owner's responsibility.

I don't understand the comment about swap threads being due to greedy guild founders. How do guild founders benefit unduly from swap threads, unless they themselves are sniping their guild members who use them?

IMO, swap threads mainly exist because a surprising number of players decline to use 1.9 threads either because they don't understand them, they are too lazy or other reasons.

I have encountered players who are insistent that all buildings posted on the 1.9 be levelled within 1 day. While I agree that once a building is posted on a 1.9, the owner should level it quickly, an insistence on 1 day is overly strict and doesn't acknowledge that not every player in a guild is on-line 24/7. Also, what is a building owner to do when nobody takes a posted spot for a long time?

6/10 times the people who grab the two top positions in swap threads are the top level players in the guild. Founders allow this to happen by keeping swaps in their guild. Swaps are training wheels that cripple younger players growth and 1.9x is the only fair way to go.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

6/10 times the people who grab the two top positions in swap threads are the top level players in the guild. Founders allow this to happen by keeping swaps in their guild. Swaps are training wheels that cripple younger players growth and 1.9x is the only fait way to go.

Yes that is the main problem with Swap Threads. The players with the most Forge Points/day that can be funneled into the swap threads will inevitably win the majority of the top rewards.
Often the Guild founder and the top FP producing players are fully aware of this and take advantage of it. And the smaller newer players either do not understand that, or do not think it matters much. When in fact the newer smaller players are being used/abused same as if they were being sniped all the time.
There are solutions to some of the swap thread problems, the best is a private swap. set up a separate swap thread with only a few players of equal strength (FPs) who swap until they lock in P1 rewards. Maybe P2 then move it to the regular swap thread.
Or work together to make sure they swap to each other consistently so they max to P1 rewards fr each other.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

I can tell you from experience that the biggest problem with swap threads isn't usually someone in the guild, but outsiders. Even way back before the Arc and 1.9 were around players outside the guild swooping in and sniping spots was a huge issue with swap threads. If not for that, swap threads are a much better deal for lower level players than 1.9 threads. The 1.9 threads also result in top spots being taken by top guild members, but cost the lower level players more in terms of FP than the swap threads do. Arcs and 1.9 have clouded almost everyone's perception of the game.

 

[Emberguard]

If not for that, swap threads are a much better deal for lower level players than 1.9 threads

Strong disagree. 1.9 for a brand new city with no Arc gives a guaranteed return at the same rate as if they already had a lvl 80 Arc whenever they get contributions to their own buildings, and gives 40-50% back into inventory when contributing to other players. It would be incredibly difficult for a new or low level player to get a better deal on swap threads than the return of interest on 1.9.

The only time a swap thread nets higher than 0% return (on a swap thread) is if you end up with a reward when the building levels. Most Guild swap threads have too many participants for swaps to be practical for a low level player, even if you never get sniped from outsiders. If you don't get the reward at the end of a swap thread resulting in a building leveling, it would be no different from putting all the Forge Points on your own building without getting sniped and without receiving 1.9.

You'd need a small 10-15 player Guild for Swap threads to be viable on a ROI perspective (not just how easy it is), or organise smaller groups of 6 players for private swaps. Lack of Forge Point income really isn't a good enough reason to avoid 1.9. There's plenty of 10, 19 or 29 Forge Point positions in 1.9 threads

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

I can tell you from experience that the biggest problem with swap threads isn't usually someone in the guild, but outsiders. Even way back before the Arc and 1.9 were around players outside the guild swooping in and sniping spots was a huge issue with swap threads. If not for that, swap threads are a much better deal for lower level players than 1.9 threads. The 1.9 threads also result in top spots being taken by top guild members, but cost the lower level players more in terms of FP than the swap threads do. Arcs and 1.9 have clouded almost everyone's perception of the game.

"Arcs and 1.9 have clouded almost everyone's perception of the game." Wouldn't this now be the reality of the game and not just a mask over the "real" reality ? Those are both elements that are firmly entrenched in the game and hence are the new reality , replacing the old reality before them not just masking it.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

1.9 for a brand new city with no Arc gives a guaranteed return at the same rate as if they already had a lvl 80 Arc whenever they get contributions to their own buildings,

It actually doesn't give them any rate of return, except raising the level of their GB, which they could also do with a swap thread (with or without outside interference.) And a swap thread doesn't require them to prime their own GBs, which a 1.9 thread does require (except when the GB is in the "sweet spot".)

and gives 40-50% back into inventory when contributing to other players.

And if you get a reward spot on a swap thread, any FP you get are pure profit because you already got reimbursed for your contribution. As I stated, other than the problem of outside the guild sniping, swap threads are much better deals for newer players. And in most guilds, the number of members participating in the swap threads isn't generally large enough to make getting reward spots rare at all. Outside sniping is the only real drawback to swap threads, and the Arc and 1.9s haven't changed that. I'm thinking that you've forgotten they dynamics from back when swap threads were commonplace in guilds. I haven't.

 

[Emberguard]

And if you get a reward spot on a swap thread, any FP you get are pure profit because you already got reimbursed for your contribution

That's no different from two people doing 1.9 on each other, other than 1.9 already gave an immediate guaranteed profit (because the deal of 1.9 is the profit is placed on the building) and swaps require the profit goes into inventory if they even get the reward at all

As I stated, other than the problem of outside the guild sniping, swap threads are much better deals for newer players.

Have you done the math on that? 'Cause I have. It's really not better for a newer player. A newer player doesn't have the income necessary for it to be better unless it's a brand new world where no one has a high income, and even then 1.9 would still outperform swaps in most cases

You'd have to outperform others to get the profit on a swap thread, and lock in the position, which would involve not contributing when a building shows up that already has several participants in unless you can overtake them.

If everyone did that you'd have swap threads that don't move because everyone's waiting for everyone else to eat the cost on a building that hasn't leveled yet but has all positions locked in or would require 20, 30, 50+ FPs or whatever for 5 FP return (way more than 10 FP for 5 FP return a 1.9 would give!). Then either the Owner has to finish it off anyway, or someone has to take the swap for no return just to get the thread moving

1.9 guarantees the profit to all participants without having to pick and choose which ones to go for, and most importantly without a disproportionate outlay cost. Swap threads usually result in the lowest reward spots to do the bulk of the no-return leveling, which of course the newer players are going to be stuck on due to lack of income and less experience. 1.9 has the highest spots do the bulk of the leveling instead

 

[Sheriff Of Rottingham]

There are fixed swap threads, 1.9 threads, and leveling threads. They are not the same. New players without Arc lvl80 should focus on leveling threads exclusively; run by someone that knows what they are doing and everyone needs to be on top of it.

 

[Sharmon the Impaler]

There are fixed swap threads, 1.9 threads, and leveling threads. They are not the same. New players without Arc lvl80 should focus on leveling threads exclusively; run by someone that knows what they are doing and everyone needs to be on top of it.

The absolute most efficient way is to find 4 others with similar low level arc and form a 5 way rotating position. Everyone banks , it rotates positions each time so equal BP too.

 

[NWWolverine]

It's stealing something that's not yours in this game. A lot of people do it. Reflection of who they are in real life.

 

[Frostblade]

It's stealing something that's not yours in this game. A lot of people do it. Reflection of who they are in real life.

According to whom lol?
Which ever spot reward belongs to the the one who takes it first, otherwise you don't understand rules of game.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I can tell you from experience that the biggest problem with swap threads isn't usually someone in the guild, but outsiders. Even way back before the Arc and 1.9 were around players outside the guild swooping in and sniping spots was a huge issue with swap threads. If not for that, swap threads are a much better deal for lower level players than 1.9 threads. The 1.9 threads also result in top spots being taken by top guild members, but cost the lower level players more in terms of FP than the swap threads do. Arcs and 1.9 have clouded almost everyone's perception of the game.

Clearly you've not done the math comparing swaps with 1.9s. In a nutshell, unless the swap partners manage to lock a P1-P5 spot on the other's GB they end up no better off than if they simply added their FPs to their own GBs. They just traded FPs in which case the 1.9s are vastly superior. Managing to wind up locking a P1-P5 spot is easy, or difficult, depending on the players involved. Most guilds using swaps have a cornucopia of swap threads (often ranging from a low of 5FPs to a high of 500). In my main city (where my guild does not have swaps but, for the sake of conversation let's assume they do) my FP production is over 2K daily. I could dump my FP production into 500FP swaps with ease while my lower level mates cannot. Players that are limited to the low level swaps will get crowded out of the P1-P5 spots nearly every time. I agree that, for upper level players with big FP banks and high-level Arcs, swaps are more profitable than 1.9s but this only comes at the expense of harming their lower level mates.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Years ago when I was getting my Arc to 80, we had arranged a private swap thread to get the needed blueprints. Some decided to switch to 1.9 and pay out Fps at a loss to get on high level Arc P4 or P5 to get prints. The players who chose to do that had more than twice the rate of Arc level growth than of those of us who chose to remain using the swaps. We all soon switched to 1.9 because it was obviously better for us and faster leveling out Arcs.
That was experience, not theory.

 

[Angry.Blanket]

It actually doesn't give them any rate of return, except raising the level of their GB, which they could also do with a swap thread (with or without outside interference.) And a swap thread doesn't require them to prime their own GBs, which a 1.9 thread does require (except when the GB is in the "sweet spot".)

And if you get a reward spot on a swap thread, any FP you get are pure profit because you already got reimbursed for your contribution. As I stated, other than the problem of outside the guild sniping, swap threads are much better deals for newer players. And in most guilds, the number of members participating in the swap threads isn't generally large enough to make getting reward spots rare at all. Outside sniping is the only real drawback to swap threads, and the Arc and 1.9s haven't changed that. I'm thinking that you've forgotten they dynamics from back when swap threads were commonplace in guilds. I haven't.

This is the problem with swap threads, " IF you get a reward spot." Small/young players don't have the FP to compete with the bigger players.

 

[Emberguard]

Years ago when I was getting my Arc to 80, we had arranged a private swap thread to get the needed blueprints. Some decided to switch to 1.9 and pay out Fps at a loss to get on high level Arc P4 or P5 to get prints. The players who chose to do that had more than twice the rate of Arc level growth than of those of us who chose to remain using the swaps. We all soon switched to 1.9 because it was obviously better for us and faster leveling out Arcs.
That was experience, not theory.

One of my first cities had a similar experience. Started out in a private 6 person swap, then we did a bit of math and decided getting the 1st and 2nd spots out at 1.8 from outside the group would be faster, less hassle and no worse off than sticking purely to private swaps. At which point it was better to just swap the whole operation to 1.8 (and later 1.9 once we had access to that) but reserve spots for each other to get the blueprints

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It only makes sense for low level players to contribute to Arcs in 1.9 threads. That way they can work towards breaking even on those threads.

 

[NWWolverine]

According to whom lol?
Which ever spot reward belongs to the the one who takes it first, otherwise you don't understand rules of game.

Wikipedia
Theft is the act of taking another person's property or services without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. A person who engages in theft is known as a thief (pl. thieves).
Whether in a game or real life, the definition is the same.