Summer Event 2023 Feedback

[xivarmy]

which one of the buccaneers hideouts do you all think is best? i like the hidden goods.

Hidden Goods is most efficient overall - and kinda nuts.

PY-R8 is neat too though. I'll probably build a few in places. It also complements your potion generation with the type that hidden goods doesn't make.

Paradise Rose is pretty much just bad.

 

[Xenosaur]

@Dursland

Real quick math: the final upgrade for VV (Vic Villa) is @ 460.


Assume for the moment you have to get there with pure diamonds.

From level 0 to level 460 takes 23 turns of 20.

With an agreed to 1.5 moves for EACH 10 doubloon, production ratio (@Sharmon the Impaler's datapoint) - meaning each try needs 10 doubloon to makes on average...1.5 of the needed 20.

So - using 1.5 math - 140 doubloon (14 tries with 10 doubloon each try) should get you around the entire edge completely - ie, will do 1 of the 23 needed levels

So for ALL the levels you need, it's 23 x 140 = 3220 doubloons

Now...

Conversion to diamond cost: Best deal is 100 doubloons for 1050 diamonds.

you need 32 of those packages to get 3200 doubloons of that 3220 = 33600 diamond cost

then you need to make provisions for the last 20 --- (3220 - 3200) = 20

you can buy a 25 doubloon package for 280 diamonds.

33600 (3200 doubloons) + 280 (25 doubloons) = 33880 diamonds for 3225 doubloons to cover the 3220 cost to RUN the prize line from 0 to 460

Remember - that's a 0 to 460 run with NO other help from the event's mechanics (quests, incidents, etc). So it's going to be less pure diamond costs if you participate, of course.

 

[Runnie the Nose]

Hidden Goods is most efficient overall - and kinda nuts.

PY-R8 is neat too though. I'll probably build a few in places. It also complements your potion generation with the type that hidden goods doesn't make.

Paradise Rose is pretty much just bad.

how did you calculate efficiency? thank you.

 

[Dursland]

I like one person saying 3k diamonds and the other says 33k lol.

 

[xivarmy]

how did you calculate efficiency? thank you.

Just a comparison of best source for various stats.

Hidden goods does very well on both FP and goods per tile - setting the standard on them at 1 FP/tile and 5 goods/tile. As well as being half a L2 sentinel outpost at the same time.

PY-R8 does very well on units per tile, setting the standard. But doesn't climb quite as high on overall efficiency because hidden goods does 2 things well while it only does 1. It's also 2/3 of a watchfire.

Paradise Rose has the worst potions, and only a 3/4-tactician-tower bonus to go with it.

 

[Xenosaur]

I like one person saying 3k diamonds and the other says 33k lol.

Yeah , my original math was in error (it's now fixed...), and ironically - the first pass (error pass) I did align with Xivarmy's 3-4K diamonds. At first blush - It seems low to me too, then @Sharmon the Impaler pointed out (thank you again, Sharmon...) a "factor of 10" error I made (tries vs value of the doubloon itself is 10), and then .... well, that 3-4 K diamonds become 30-40K diamonds real fast.

So it makes sense to do all you can in the event first, then reach to that goal for much less cost. Sharmon think that 0 to 460 with game help (playing the event...) will save you possibly 6K diamonds (28 with game help, 34 without).

PS: If Inno was giving away that entire line from 0 to 460 for 4K diamonds, a LOT of people would back up the truck multiple times for that.

Possibly @xivarmy meant 3-4K Diamonds of MORE DOUBLOON VALUE from where most people end their event line with nominal playing. I'll let him address that

 

[Pericles the Lion]

460 progress is needed to get all of the necessary Viceroy upgrade frags. Turning over a tile in the minigame earns approximately 1.5 progress. This means that 307 turns will be needed. Each turn costs 10 doubloons. So, 3,070 doubloons will be required for turns. We can get 2,265 from quests and daily connections. This leaves a shortfall of 805 doubloons. Now, revealing the "Show 2" and "Shuffle" will earn doubloons and reduce the shortfall somewhat. However, excluding their impact, and the impact of incidents, diamonds will be needed to purchase the 805 doubloons. 8 packages of 100 will cost 8,400 diamonds. I'd guess that getting to 460 will cost around 8K diamonds.

 

[Xenosaur]

460 progress is needed to get all of the necessary Viceroy upgrade frags. Turning over a tile in the minigame earns approximately 1.5 progress. This means that 307 turns will be needed. Each turn costs 10 doubloons. So, 3,070 doubloons will be required for turns. We can get 2,265 from quests and daily connections. This leaves a shortfall of 805 doubloons. Now, revealing the "Show 2" and "Shuffle" will earn doubloons and reduce the shortfall somewhat. However, excluding their impact, and the impact of incidents, diamonds will be needed to purchase the 805 doubloons. 8 packages of 100 will cost 8,400 diamonds. I'd guess that getting to 460 will cost around 8K diamonds.

Thanks for doing that baseline math, @Pericles the Lion. I didn't have the "event playing" values, but 8K (or cheaper) sounds reasonable as the cost of extending the buildings value after a full event itself picks up most of the cost.

 

[xivarmy]

460 progress is needed to get all of the necessary Viceroy upgrade frags. Turning over a tile in the minigame earns approximately 1.5 progress. This means that 307 turns will be needed. Each turn costs 10 doubloons. So, 3,070 doubloons will be required for turns. We can get 2,265 from quests and daily connections. This leaves a shortfall of 805 doubloons. Now, revealing the "Show 2" and "Shuffle" will earn doubloons and reduce the shortfall somewhat. However, excluding their impact, and the impact of incidents, diamonds will be needed to purchase the 805 doubloons. 8 packages of 100 will cost 8,400 diamonds. I'd guess that getting to 460 will cost around 8K diamonds.

The Show 2/Shuffle Impact should not be excluded.

Average is around 8.4 Doubloons Per Tile instead of 10 including show 2, shuffle, and double, assuming you only start boards you can play until you find the shuffle.

460/1.5*8.4 = 2576 doubloons. ~310 excess needed = 3-4k.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

The Show 2/Shuffle Impact should not be excluded.

Average is around 8.4 Doubloons Per Tile instead of 10 including show 2, shuffle, and double, assuming you only start boards you can play until you find the shuffle.

460/1.5*8.4 = 2576 doubloons. ~310 excess needed = 3-4k.

I agree with you that the Show2/Shuffle should not be excluded (Double does not add doubloons) but their value will be difficult to predict because we don't have enough data with this board mechanic. My guess is "worst case". I think that the final amount will indeed be closer to your # (depending on how quickly the shuffle is uncovered on each new board).

 

[xivarmy]

I agree with you that the Show2/Shuffle should not be excluded (Double does not add doubloons) but their value will be difficult to predict because we don't have enough data with this board mechanic. My guess is "worst case". I think that the final amount will indeed be closer to your # (depending on how quickly the shuffle is uncovered on each new board).

It's not difficult to predict unless you believe they're rigging the game to make it hard to find the shuffle or decrease the value of the show-2 (certainly would be the first time I've heard that slant on complaints about the shuffle ). The crudest case:

Ignoring the show2/double (double does occasionally add doubloons if it doubles the show 2 or shuffle): There are 16 tiles. It will take from 1-16 tiles to reveal the shuffle, an average of 8.5. This will cost 75 since 10 will be refunded. 75/8.5 = 8.8 per tile already.

Adding in only the doubloons from the show 2: 50% of the time the show 2 will come before the shuffle, the other 50% it'll come after the shuffle. So on average that's an extra 2 doubloons saved per board. 73/8.5 = 8.6 per tile.

Now there's the more complicated interactions:

- the show 2 where it can save you between 0-2 reveals in your search for the shuffle (if the next one to be revealed was the shuffle it saves you none; if neither of the two it reveals are the shuffle it saves you 2)
- the double where it can sometimes make you doubloons if it doubles one of the tiles that grants some.
- sometimes rare cases where you *know* the double will hit the shuffle next

I have a spreadsheet that calculates that out for a variety of permutations and calculates average costs when a) searching for a key (or daily special) before the special (i.e. avoiding the shuffle if the show-2 reveals it until you find your target square) and b) when just trying to get rid of a board (shuffle asap)

a comes out to 8.4/tile; b comes out to 8.3/tile.

 

[Orius Maximus]

So they replaced the traditional Summer event mechanic with a crappy knockoff of the Winter event including the obnoxious Shuffle.

Then they have an avatar as a quest milestone prize again instead of an upgrade piece.

Then the prize line looks like it has a second level 1 piece before you can collect a full set of upgrades again.

Now I'm reading that it's unlikely to get enough coins on the game to get the full prize without spending money. And the calendar is a waste of effort too, even though completing it gives a sorely needed upgrade, but finding the key means likely wasting doubloons and hitting that damn shuffle. Kind of like how the Winter event worked last year, but at least I got the full building there.

Maybe the maps might be worth dropping the 3000 diamonds on it, and there's one upgrade kit available for me there already, but I'll have to see if I can finish the main event building because otherwise it's just a waste of diamonds.

The prize line also has in lieu of an upgrade kit a selection kit for the Governor's Villa probably to encourage people to drop money on the cash prize line. Except that the crappiness of this event is not worth dropping any money on in the first place, and doing so would just signal my approval of bad game design.

But hey, there's lots of opportunities to win coins, supplies and medals on the board, right? I certainly hope any x2s I get double those wonderful, excellent, and highly desirable l33t prizes!

I'm glad I decided not to bother with this event on any of my side cities.

 

[CDmark]

OK, we have a diamond range for getting Viceroy Villa upgrade (3-8K), anyone figure out the cost for a 2nd BucBay? It looks like at 460,
2 L1
11 upgrades via grand prize
1 upgrade via milestone

So 5 upgrades needed for 2 L9, takes you to 640 and 50 frags of Gold upgrade.
That is 180 more "oysters" needed. 1.5 oysters per tile = 120 tiles
Worst case aka the Pericles Pirate Principle = 1200 doubloons = 12600 diamonds
Probable case using the Xivarmy Pirate Xtrapolation Thereom = 10600 diamonds
still 100 fragments short of 2 BB. So, put 2 L9's out there, using the BG L68 Axiom = 34 days until the additional 100 fragments to then use with the 50 extra and you already have 150 via grand prizes and milestone for 2 BB.

Or 460 + $15-20 (nowadays, the current cost for a decent lunch eating out) for 2BB immediately and 2 viceroy versus 1

Just checked the fridge, got bread, turkey, bacon, tomatoes, lettuce, cheese and mayo and chips. So, I get a real turkey club sandwich with chips at home, bacon extra crispy the way I like it, perfectly toasted bread versus paying $15-20 for a completely portioned sandwich and my 2nd Viceroy Villa. Hmm, wonder what I will do. One may say the time needed to make the sammy hasn't been factored in. I counter with the time needed to go get it, so they negate each other. Since I got 2 worlds, I guess a roast beef or tuna melt would be the second menu item. That will be a mood thing, surf or turf...lol

 

[CDmark]

So they replaced the traditional Summer event mechanic with a crappy knockoff of the Winter event including the obnoxious Shuffle.

Then they have an avatar as a quest milestone prize again instead of an upgrade piece.

Then the prize line looks like it has a second level 1 piece before you can collect a full set of upgrades again.

Now I'm reading that it's unlikely to get enough coins on the game to get the full prize without spending money. And the calendar is a waste of effort too, even though completing it gives a sorely needed upgrade, but finding the key means likely wasting doubloons and hitting that damn shuffle. Kind of like how the Winter event worked last year, but at least I got the full building there.

Maybe the maps might be worth dropping the 3000 diamonds on it, and there's one upgrade kit available for me there already, but I'll have to see if I can finish the main event building because otherwise it's just a waste of diamonds.

The prize line also has in lieu of an upgrade kit a selection kit for the Governor's Villa probably to encourage people to drop money on the cash prize line. Except that the crappiness of this event is not worth dropping any money on in the first place, and doing so would just signal my approval of bad game design.

But hey, there's lots of opportunities to win coins, supplies and medals on the board, right? I certainly hope any x2s I get double those wonderful, excellent, and highly desirable l33t prizes!

I'm glad I decided not to bother with this event on any of my side cities.

For 3000 diamonds you may want to consider going for the 460 mark where you get the Viceroy Villa upgrade.

 

[Dursland]

Just checked the fridge, got bread, turkey, bacon, tomatoes, lettuce, cheese and mayo and chips. So, I get a real turkey club sandwich with chips at home, bacon extra crispy the way I like it, perfectly toasted bread versus paying $15-20 for a completely portioned sandwich and my 2nd Viceroy Villa. Hmm, wonder what I will do. One may say the time needed to make the sammy hasn't been factored in. I counter with the time needed to go get it, so they negate each other. Since I got 2 worlds, I guess a roast beef or tuna melt would be the second menu item. That will be a mood thing, surf or turf...lol

Every time I spend on games, I am basically pulling out of the grocery budget. I eat less and of lower quality but it's worth it to me.

12500 diamonds sounds about right to me, and what I'm hoping it will cost. Any idea if a third is another 12,500 or is it like winter where you can just get a bunch if you spend a little more? I don't recall the 3rd and 4th ketebos in my city being as expensive linearly as the 2nd but it's been a while.

 

[xivarmy]

Every time I spend on games, I am basically pulling out of the grocery budget. I eat less and of lower quality but it's worth it to me.

12500 diamonds sounds about right to me, and what I'm hoping it will cost. Any idea if a third is another 12,500 or is it like winter where you can just get a bunch if you spend a little more? I don't recall the 3rd and 4th ketebos in my city being as expensive linearly as the 2nd but it's been a while.

The 3rd is a bit more expensive than the 2nd because you can get 1 and some upgrades for free. I have it at 12k for 2 or 28k for 3 (without any passes). So the 3rd+ would be about 16k each (without passes).

But that excludes getting any trading post pieces from the treasure maps. My current haul on dilmun with 2 trading post upgrades as part of the 2995 is better than getting 2 upgrades by buying doubloons. (2 upgrades = 80 progress = ~448 doubloons a bit over 4k worth). So depending on your luck there, there may be a cheaper path for some of your upgrades.

 

[Aethelcatt VIII]

During the winter event last year, I gave up on the calendar pretty early on because it was rather clear that it would be impossible to complete with the number of stars we got. This time around, I decided to give it a try because the skull cave looks really appealing—and because people who tried it on Beta told me it was a little easier to complete than the calendar last winter. Well, so far it is not looking easier at all!

On the first day of the event I spent all the doubloons I had gathered, got two daily specials, but never saw the key even though I pursue the final board (after one shuffle) until there were only two or three hidden tiles left and the board got shuffled again. I chalked it up as a strike of bad luck and never gave it another thought, especially since I landed on the key fairly easily yesterday. Then tonight I took the time to look over the board before clicking on “start” and made a rather troubling discovery: There is no key on this board! (See screen shot attached below.)

So, am I supposed to try to hit “shuffle” on this board and hope that the next one has a key on it? With the number of doubloons we get each day, it is hard enough to complete the calendar even if we completely ignore the daily specials. Now, toss in the fact that some of the boards may not even have keys on them…you’ve gotta be kidding me!

 

[Sluggie]

My understanding is that the Calendar Key is available only on 1 of every 2 boards, on average. Combining this with the fact that progress towards the Grand Prize was cut by 33% makes having any success nearly impossible. This Event should be renamed Inno Piracy and Overreach.

That and you can get "board reset" means it is even more stupid design from player view!

 

[Orius Maximus]

This events main building is about the best I have seen in 4 years and the ordering of the kits was fixed this time. Every level1 is before 8 selection kits and the fragments are properly spread out too. The GV golden update is also a huge boost for them.

Okay, I see now. The second level one is in between two upgrades, instead of replacing one of them. It irritated me seeing it there at first, because of the way the stupid wildlife event was set up. It looks like I'll need a minimum of 240 points or whatever to get the needed 6 upgrades, I already won one from the quests, and I can get another one from the maps if I spend the diamonds which makes 8 upgrade kits. That just leaves the last 10th level upgrade which is again following the obnoxious fragment scheme though.

Still, it's annoying to see the old wheel replaced by a Winter event variant. And tacking a calendar onto don't help, the calendar worked okay with the Archaeology and Halloween events, but the Winter event makes it suck with the shuffle.

 

[Xenosaur]

So they replaced the traditional Summer event mechanic with a crappy knockoff of the Winter event including the obnoxious Shuffle.

Then they have an avatar as a quest milestone prize again instead of an upgrade piece.

Then the prize line looks like it has a second level 1 piece before you can collect a full set of upgrades again.

Now I'm reading that it's unlikely to get enough coins on the game to get the full prize without spending money. And the calendar is a waste of effort too, even though completing it gives a sorely needed upgrade, but finding the key means likely wasting doubloons and hitting that damn shuffle. Kind of like how the Winter event worked last year, but at least I got the full building there.

Maybe the maps might be worth dropping the 3000 diamonds on it, and there's one upgrade kit available for me there already, but I'll have to see if I can finish the main event building because otherwise it's just a waste of diamonds.

The prize line also has in lieu of an upgrade kit a selection kit for the Governor's Villa probably to encourage people to drop money on the cash prize line. Except that the crappiness of this event is not worth dropping any money on in the first place, and doing so would just signal my approval of bad game design.

But hey, there's lots of opportunities to win coins, supplies and medals on the board, right? I certainly hope any x2s I get double those wonderful, excellent, and highly desirable l33t prizes!

I'm glad I decided not to bother with this event on any of my side cities.

@Orius Maximus

I think you should really take a second DEEP look at this event, and review the offerings and methods more carefully. We play this in beta and Inno made it a knockout home run, with a few people on base, too. It remains one of their BEST city productivity events in a longtime. As well, it will pay dividends down the road by building a continuous stream of helpful tools to be a battle assisted warrior, with intense, on demand, boosts.

We've dreamed about having HIGH IMPACT attack and stackable defense boosts - well - HERE THEY ARE! NO more 5, 10 or 20% attack boosts. Now you have a great chance to secure a buildable stream for 100, 200, or yes even 300% A or D boosts - on demand.

So yeah - Please don't sell it short, which you seem to be doing. The mechanics are easy. Very little strategy and no math. Perfect for summer. When you finish this event, you have the CHOICE to spend some diamonds from your event progress to push on even further, and CLEAN SWEEP the top levels for 2 amazing buildings. A clear victory for players, for sure.

Alternately, you can ENSURE you get these LEVEL 10 upgrade by spending $15 - and getting them without spending diamonds.

Take a look at what the Viceroy Villa and Buckaneers Bay give you in the AGE you play, and if you're not gonna say WOW - amazing - then hmmmm, don't know what to tell you.

People should be playing this event DEEP, especially for a game-recurring value proposition.