swap threads

[hippobuttamus]

hi, is there a guide on how to use these efficiently.

i know some players say that when their GB's get to around level 120, it is more efficient to use swap threads instead of 1.9 threads.
i'm having a hard time working out why that is ?

 

[Pericles the Lion]

If by "efficient" you really mean "less costly" then I think the answer is "it depends". The next level of my ARC requires 61K FPs to level. In a 1.95 thread, 48K would come from me. If I used swaps, I would invest the full 61K in the GBs of other players. In return, they would level my ARC for me. At this point my expense would be 13K FPs more that if I used the 1.95. However, if my 61K investments in the other players' GBs resulted in me locking a lot of P1-P5 spots it would be possible to recover the 13K shortfall and more. But, this is how swaps work in general. Being able to profit using swaps is not dependent on the level of the GBs. It depends on astute investing. This said, except for my very early days in the game I have never used swaps. I think that they are a scheme where high level players prey on lower level ones.

 

[hippobuttamus]

if the gb costs 61k fp to lvl, and you can get a 50% return on the fp you invest, the it would cast you 30.5k to lvl. which is less than the 48k you put in at 1.9.
but, the problem is, the time. if you get 800fp per day then it would take 60 days to get 48k, and 76 days to get 61k, so it's taking longer in time to lvl.
hmm, is the extra time worth it, if i'm going from 117-180, in 1.9 it will cost me 1,489,141fp , which is around 5 years time...it's going to take too long to work this out.

5 years , thats crazy

 

[Pericles the Lion]

if the gb costs 61k fp to lvl, and you can get a 50% return on the fp you invest, the it would cast you 30.5k to lvl. which is less than the 48k you put in at 1.9.
but, the problem is, the time. if you get 800fp per day then it would take 60 days to get 48k, and 76 days to get 61k, so it's taking longer in time to lvl.
hmm, is the extra time worth it, if i'm going from 117-180, in 1.9 it will cost me 1,489,141fp , which is around 5 years time...it's going to take too long to work this out.

5 years , thats crazy

My ARC is L177 and I should get it to L180 by the end of Feb which is almost exactly 2 years after I got it to 80. 100% in 1.9x threads. A agree, swaps would have taken a lot longer.

 

[85gt]

My ARC is L177 and I should get it to L180 by the end of Feb which is almost exactly 2 years after I got it to 80. 100% in 1.9x threads. A agree, swaps would have taken a lot longer.

I agree also, swap threads cost more but not so sure that relates to slow progress. Any time you put out 100 fp`s in swap thread you get back the 100 but chances are you lost out on most the .9 you could have got from the 1.9 thread.
Swap threads are for those with no time to spend on the game, they come on post theirs take the one above and poof their gone

 

[Be Chuille]

Swap threads are slow, inefficient, a waste of FP, and lead to abuse.
If a player with a level 120 Arc is using swap threads, it is likely used to profit at the expense of others.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Swap threads are bad. Problems include: The highest Forge Point player get all the top rewards. This is something new players do not understand about Swaps. Swap threads are prone to cheating.
Most players do not even check, or know if the person adding actually added the correct amount, or any amount. Rife for cheating by crooks.
(this can be covered by actually adding the amount on your Gb you are posting. I used to add the amount currently on my GB and then the image. kept some few players 'honest'. who seemed to always 'forget" "Oh sorry i forgot" when way long ago I was in arc swap threads.
Swap thread GB are far more open to sniping
And finally swap threads are a slower way to level up. Players who moved from swap to 1.9 nearly doubled teh speed of leveling thair GB.

 

[xivarmy]

i know some players say that when their GB's get to around level 120, it is more efficient to use swap threads instead of 1.9 threads.
i'm having a hard time working out why that is ?

To answer the question actually asked, the reason with very high level GBs is that the effect of 1.9 threads on them becomes less pronounced the higher you go.

With 1.9:

- cost increases to level 10, which is the most expensive level for a while, but pre-10 levels are cheap anyways to high level players
- cost decreases til level 50 or so. from level 30-50 levels can be almost free (especially with certain eras of building that have weird numbers (PME to FE))
- cost starts increasing again. By level 70-80 it's more expensive than level 10 again. By level 100+ costs are getting pretty crazy, and the amount you're getting back from 1.9 is barely increasing by comparison. Around 120 close to half the (very expensive) building level is being "self-primed".

One of the first adaptations that some of those players hitting those high levels may have turned to is increasing the ratio to 1.92 or 1.95 or even 2.00 but that only takes another 100 or 200 FP off the thousands it costs per level though. Higher-than-1.9 threads are actually much better for catching up new players than being an added bonus to strong ones But come with the downsides that it slows down threads a lot since the profit-motive goes away for taking spots, and also prices a number of players out of taking high spots they may wish they could take if it wasn't at a loss. Still if your guild has enough high arcs that want it, it can work.

Switching back to "swaps" is kinda a new one on me, but for a sufficiently selfish player with sufficient opportunity, I could see the point. If you have enough buildings that are more-exploitable than yours in the thread, and an effectively unlimited reserve pool to make sure you get the good spots, you could effectively get a return on your crap spots, and possibly even have someone snipe 1 & 2 after you've "primed via swaps". Mostly I saw this when 1.x's were new (even did it a little at first, though I tried to make sure not to overdo it and leave the people who swapped to me a "fair" return - not everyone was "ready" to make the shift to 1.x's yet - the willingness to pay 1.9 at a loss for blueprints came later). But in recent times if guilds have both they usually have rules that you can't send the building to 1.9 if you used it in swaps. Many guilds have just gone "no swap threads" instead to avoid the drama.

So what is the answer for those really high levels?

- 1) Accepting that they just *are* that expensive.
- 2) Make more FP - Snipe your neighbors. Be an active participant in 1.9 threads while your Arc returns more than 1.9. Do more GBG. If you don't need as much boost as you've built for GBG switch your city space usage back towards making more FP.
- 3) Sell Advanced Era Goods. Unlike FP swaps, there is no implied promise of getting some FP back for a goods buyer typically - and in fact you usually try to engineer a situation where you're sure they did give you net-FP; a super-high-level building is often a good option for this. On older worlds this can be harder as there's plenty of people willing to give away goods for free. But on newer worlds (say up to 2-3 years old), selling goods can be a real option. You'll need a lot of sales (and thus a lot of goods production) for this to be a big help.

 

[MKPapa]

hi, is there a guide on how to use these efficiently.

i know some players say that when their GB's get to around level 120, it is more efficient to use swap threads instead of 1.9 threads.
i'm having a hard time working out why that is ?

Swap threads are always worse than 1.9 math wise. They also take longer to level, are prone to cheating (and to honest mistakes) that are hard to catch, and are not predictable timewise and profit wise.
IMO, the reason why some players believe very high level GBs are easier to level in swaps is because their guild does not have enough high level 1.9 participants with big enough spare FP pool to spend on such 1.9. But if the guild is active, nobody would refuse to drop, say, 5K fp to a single spot to get them back in 5 min (or even in few days) with nice profit.
IMO there are many high level old schoolers who are just "lazy" to learn on how to use 1.9, and continue to use swaps even with their Arc well above 80. These are usually farmers, and do not care if something takes weeks instead of hours. I know this first hand.

 

[MKPapa]

I do not understand why people believe high level GB are expensive to level in 1.9. Yes, high level GB are expensive by their nature, but in 1.9 you always pay only a fraction of the full leveling cost. In swaps you always pay the full leveling cost of your GB, and occasionally get a profit from other player GBs you swapped your FP to.
I am talking about general public here, not about 'snipers' who make a living from opportunities to make a quick buck, be it in 1.9 or in a swapped GB thread. They can make nice profit from other people swaps, but trust me, they level their own GBs in 1.9 (and use snipable swaps to pour other player FPs to fill 1.9 positions in their GB at more than 1.9 spot would require, so they can take profit on both sides of equation).

 

[Mor-Rioghain]

Perhaps the real reason behind why those with GBs over 120 think swaps are going to generate 'more' or just generate them 'faster' has a lot more to do with just how hard it is to ask anyone to deposit such large numbers of FPs into a single level in a single sitting. Let's face it, even with the cash-cow rewards offered by battlegrounds, 3-6K for a single spot in one deposit is a lot to invest -- and risk -- for the "X" days it takes the owner to level it.

The FP swap exchanges at least offer the neglible security of requiring smaller deposits that are just more suitable to cities that are largely collected once per day and bonuses or boosts from bg, % boost bldgs like the blue galaxy, and the like are random and unreliable for the most part. It stands to reason that people would then justify such a means as an fp exchange as more expedient.

 

[MKPapa]

One way I would consider to push the high level GB higher is a leveling party.
If you have a high level GB you probably have advanced friends/guildies as well. You can invite them for a party where they can level your GB in a matter of seconds. Create a separate thread, find the day/time that works for everybody, make sure everybody is present and have have enough FP to take their spots, unlock the next level, and voilà - your GB is leveled up!
Obviously this requires more effort than swap thread, but is well worth it IMO.

 

[85gt]

Perhaps the real reason behind why those with GBs over 120 think swaps are going to generate 'more' or just generate them 'faster' has a lot more to do with just how hard it is to ask anyone to deposit such large numbers of FPs into a single level in a single sitting. Let's face it, even with the cash-cow rewards offered by battlegrounds, 3-6K for a single spot in one deposit is a lot to invest -- and risk -- for the "X" days it takes the owner to level it.

The FP swap exchanges at least offer the neglible security of requiring smaller deposits that are just more suitable to cities that are largely collected once per day and bonuses or boosts from bg, % boost bldgs like the blue galaxy, and the like are random and unreliable for the most part. It stands to reason that people would then justify such a means as an fp exchange as more expedient.

Most of us have 1000`s of Fp`s in bank, its just convenance and not spending time to do the 1.9

 

[Mor-Rioghain]

Most of us have 1000`s of Fp`s in bank, its just convenance and not spending time to do the 1.9

That's assuming an awful lot about personal choice in playstyle. I would argue the opposite: In my experience, most players actually keep very few forge points in reserve, preferring to invest their income in either their own GBs or others as they collect them. And I already stated the issue of convenience:

Perhaps the real reason behind why those with GBs over 120 think swaps are going to generate 'more' or just generate them 'faster' has a lot more to do with just how hard it is to ask anyone to deposit such large numbers of FPs into a single level in a single sitting. Let's face it, even with the cash-cow rewards offered by battlegrounds, 3-6K for a single spot in one deposit is a lot to invest -- and risk -- for the "X" days it takes the owner to level it.

The FP swap exchanges at least offer the neglible security of requiring smaller deposits that are just more suitable to cities that are largely collected once per day and bonuses or boosts from bg, % boost bldgs like the blue galaxy, and the like are random and unreliable for the most part. It stands to reason that people would then justify such a means as an fp exchange as more expedient.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Arc leveling 140 takes 5K for P1 which compared to the amount to lock P1 for the owner(13,795)@1.9 is small.
So on that point I can see how a high level Arc owner would want to be able to make something out of those 13,795 Fps. And since the swaps are usually used by much smaller players. the big player could dominate the swaps FP wise, and take most of the P1 rewards
Then take his.her Arc to another 1.9 or 1.9x and fill the P1 P2 P3 with those players outside of swaps. (one reason many Guilds do not allow shift from swap to 1.9 But the player could get the P1 P2 P3 filled outside of that Guild anyway
So yes the use of swaps might be viable for very high level GB owners. But as usual it probably means cheating the other swap players. LOL
The normal way is to snipe to get the Fps to level very hgh level GBs like arc. i would guess every 180 arc owner does it by sniping. Though the very early top arc owners may not have needed to snipe they could do so much more since 1.9 did not even exist early on.
All my Guilds ban swaps. and I would not want to be in a Guild that used them a lot. But maybe someday when I'm working on Arc at levels over 120 I might be tempted to switch to a Guild that has big swap threads , to steal all those P1s away.. evil thought.
I doubt my conscience would let me do it.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

I play three Worlds. World#1 I have 30,000 Fps in packets. No special reason, but I am not using them up. Other two worlds vary between 1k and 15 K with an average of 7 K in packets. I tend to use them up when advancing Eras. I really want to get both up to the 30K in the other World, if only for Saturn when it opens. The ability to save into Packets varies greatly from Guild to Guild. And is just as much a Guild thing as a person thing due to the way that Guilds 1.9 runs. (IMO of course)
The players with huge stashes of Packets are long time players, and high level snipers. Some have more than half a million FP in Packets. Players with 180 Arcs, Level 200 CF, level 150 AOs...

 

[Mor-Rioghain]

I play three Worlds. World#1 I have 30,000 Fps in packets. No special reason, but I am not using them up. Other two worlds vary between 1k and 15 K with an average of 7 K in packets. I tend to use them up when advancing Eras. I really want to get both up to the 30K in the other World, if only for Saturn when it opens. The ability to save into Packets varies greatly from Guild to Guild. And is just as much a Guild thing as a person thing due to the way that Guilds 1.9 runs. (IMO of course)
The players with huge stashes of Packets are long time high level snipers. Some have more than half a million FP in Packets

These kinds of assumptions just don't equate. I have 3 more well-developed city and only one is my 'main,' defined as it's where I'm in a large guild, am more active in all types of play such as GE, GvG, BG, and gets the focus of my attention of the leveling of my great buildings and questing. (In other words, my "fp packs" are in my great buildings). Consequently, I spend more time investing in other's great buildings and leveling my own. It's also the world where I have the least fp packets. Why? Because I am busy equalizing my own leveling and investing. (by investing I mean legitimate investments in 1.x threads. I do not snipe - at all, never have except in extreme cases of retribution). Assuming that all players snipe is assuming a lot. Of my 3 well-developed cities, my accumulated stash is on the city that I have decided to camp indefinately and am in a guild of two members. We use a 1.9 thread and we invest our daily income into other's gbs and only level our slowly. The rewards for that more casual playstule has resulted in my stacking of nearly 60K in packs in less than 15 months. My 2nd world is the one I 'test-drive' my era advancements for my main world - also small guild/1.9 threads to level on and invest in - but I spend more on techs since I do not camp. My usual # of fp packs is much smaller, about 4-7K at any given time. The arcs are pretty equal and the general layout and other gbs pretty much the same.

My main world is the one where I seem to live day by day on collections and my fp packs rarely exceed 3-4K. I've also camped, so no outlay for research, and my investments are from an active, 60+ member guild, and several external 1.9-1.95 threads. My arc there is L108 (my other 2 are 114/115) so decent return on investments since I'm able to take in some levels on my higher level gbs on the 1.92-.95 threads. My point? I DO NOT SNIPE. Ever. Lots of players choose not to so ascerting that only those who are high-level snipers can stack packs to any great degree of success is just not true -- I'm one example of how it can be done. (Why is it possible? In my own experience, I'm offered more opportunites for 1.9 investments and I have a higher than 90% return on my return on my investents due to my Arc's level -- Because I take any position/on any building -- they literally "throw" their big positions onto the threads when they know I'm around -- because I'm not 'picky' about what I'll take.) That's far more successful and far less subject to the snipee's just choosing to let a level stagnate/not level at all, holding my fps "hostage."

Not trying to convert anyone -- you think it's a wise way to invest your fps, your call -- but to suggest/no outright state that sniping is the only way to stack packs is ludicrous. I've just proven that it's not only possible but it's entirely profitable given the right set of circumstances.

 

[Ebeondi Asi]

Just to mention I do not snipe.
You are writing about 3LK to 60K average. Yes no need to do anything but average work in 1.9 to gain that. I Gained 30,000 and basically stopped saving 18 months ago, reusing the added packs... doing nothing but some 1.9 But I'm writing about 250,000 Fp to 750,000 Forge points in packets, with another 100,000 out in snipes at any time, and they are: "The players with huge stashes of Packets are long time high level snipers"

 

[Mor-Rioghain]

You are writing about 3LK to 60K average. Yes no need to do anything but average work in 1.9 to gain that. I Gained 30,000 and basically stopped saving 18 months ago, reusing the added packs... doing nothing but some 1.9 But I'm writing about 250,000 Fp to 750,000 Forge points in packets, with another 100,000 out in snipes at any time, and they are: "The players with huge stashes of Packets are long time high level snipers"

Yes but anyone who puts forth a dedicated -- and consistent -- effort into putting their earned fps into safer investments, such as 1.x threads, is going to stash packages if they also balance their own leveling of gbs. What I didn't mention was that I played/collected less than 50% of the time during that 15 month period. Had I collected/invested daily, my stash would be higher.

I don't doubt that "high-level snipers" engender a great deal of income nor that they might stash back packages. BUT their investments are often not guaranteed nor are they quick despite their profitability.

I wasn't obecting to your observation only that it was a blanket statement. There are ways to save back those same numbers of packs and you needn't snipe to do it.

 

[85gt]

Many have over 100k FP in bank, I would think all the big guilds top members have large FP`s in packets, I have known 2 over 500k
I feel broke if I dip to 50k