Thread Etiquette

[mamboking053]

This is not a proposal about the game itself, but one about responding to comments in the forum section.

I'm a fairly new player and I've been dogging through the forums to look for tips on how to get ahead. However, it seems like half of the posts are snarky, condescending replies to people with questions. Understandably, some questions may not be seen by advanced players as "good" or "intelligent", but you should at least make your replies concise, informative, and helpful. Answer the question while resisting the urge to be an *ss, yourself.

My other gripe is "gang-banging". With one reply comes a slew of copy-cats who post nothing but echoes of an original reply- plus or minus their own snarky, derogatory, or condescending comment. It inflates the threads beyond reason. I'm looking for help and I have to sift through pettiness to get it. This isn't everyone, but the people who do it make the experience a bit toxic simply to read through.

I know Forum Moderators must flagellate themselves daily having to deal with this kind of stuff, but if there's anyway to reduce this noise and clutter from the forums and hold "responders" to account as much as those responders likely consider themselves holding others to account with their own posts, I think the forums might be better for it.

 

[DeletedUser13736]

I think this thread would be better placed in the Forge Hall section of the forum.
@Dursland
I agree with your points though, I would rephrase "gang-banging", my mind is not thinking of copycats when I read that.

 

[mamboking053]

I think this thread would be better placed in the Forge Hall section of the forum.
@Dursland
I agree with your points though, I would rephrase "gang-banging", my mind is not thinking of copycats when I read that.

The Gang-bang was referring to how many people would all jump on one person in the forums and this would go on for so long with people basically repeating someone else or just mocking a person. I'm not advocating for peace and love, but it just makes reading the forums real tedious when...after ten minutes...the same thing is still going on.

 

[DeletedUser31440]

However, it seems like half of the posts are snarky, condescending replies to people with questions. Understandably, some questions may not be seen by advanced players as "good" or "intelligent", but you should at least make your replies concise, informative, and helpful. Answer the question while resisting the urge to be an *ss, yourself.

For me, the response to a question will be in kind to how the question was asked. If a question is actually asked and the pertinent information to give an answer is available I will try to answer with just a dash of snark. More often what I see is a blathering nincompoop coming onto the forum and going straight into "Inno is trying to screw me by making a challenging game feature when I want everything for free and right now!" rant, that type of post deserves full snark and potentially harmful misinformation. As to the ganging up on people side of this, welcome to the internet? Unfortunate side effect of anonymity and no real reprecussions for what you say.

 

[DeletedUser32824]

I think a lot of people also take disagreements to their own opinions and strategies far too personally. Like, when it boils down this is just a stupid flash game--nothing worth forming feuds or getting angry over!

 

[Graviton]

I've been snarky when people have obviously not read the READ BEFORE POSTING threads before posting. I believe those snarks are well-earned.

 

[DeletedUser26120]

Lancer beat me to it, moving the thread.

As for original poster's statement - moderators have tried cracking down in the past, it did not work out.

Players here are extremely resistant to being censored and getting more involved seemed to make things worse rather than better.

All I can tell you is to try and put a few specific people on ignore (its usually the same few in every thread) and the forums should improve significantly.

If you feel a post is over the line you can report it and the moderators will take a look. It does take a bit of thick skin to browse FoE US forums.

 

[DeletedUser30900]

Hmmmm..... no bus driver in the forum no more? Well, he’s not coming anyway

 

[Algona]

Don't be surprised or offended when you get treated the way you treat others, including how you treat INNO and the game. If you want civil polite rationale discourse then try being civil, polite, and rationale. Everyone has a right to an opinion, which means that everyone has a right to the opinion that your opinion sucks.

If somebody goes overboard, report them.

Vague sweeping accusations of impropriety like the OP and Xiong's recent rant don't do anybody any good:The truly oblivious bad posters will not understand that such criticism applies to them; those posters who do realize it applies to them will just get defensive and mad. Veteran posters will also realize that it doesn't matter, nothing will happen to them for getting mad and responding thus.

Again, if someone does something you think is a violation of the rules, report it.

Which brings this up:

Lancer beat me to it, moving the thread.

As for original poster's statement - moderators have tried cracking down in the past, it did not work out.

Players here are extremely resistant to being censored and getting more involved seemed to make things worse rather than better.

All I can tell you is to try and put a few specific people on ignore (its usually the same few in every thread) and the forums should improve significantly.

If you feel a post is over the line you can report it and the moderators will take a look. It does take a bit of thick skin to browse FoE US forums.

The reasons 'cracking down' has not worked for the current mod staff are moderation is not immediate, nor consistent, nor effective in the actions taken, and worst of all, blatant rules infractions are often completely unacted on.

We need a stronger mod presence on the Forum. The mod staff seems to vanish for days and weeks at a time. Too often when they do show up actions they take appear to be done in haste with little or no thought or consideration of circumstances, rules, or the subject at hand.

I don't understand this idea of shifting the burden from the mod staff to players implementing the ignore function. Not only does this lead inevitably to the very unsavory practice of hellbannng by cliques of posters, but It will ultimately fail as a method of control because as long as players can flagrantly break rules with no penalties, other players will see that behaviour and emulate it.

Try busting our balls. It worked for jaelis, it works for other forums. The mods must have the presence, inclination, and access to use effectibe mod tools like editing or deleting offending posts; moving, merging, deleting, and locking threads; temp and perma banning offenders.

That includes the mod staff. You guys have been good about it recently, but whimsically breaking forum rules as occurred in late 2017 was not a good example for the posters.

I strongly recommend that the mod staff from top to bottom review and edit the rules and penalties for breaking the rules to meet your vision of what you want this community to be and make sure you understand your own rules. Then publish them for all to clearly see.

Then consistently and immediately enforce them.

I'm willing to take the heat when I break the rules, if i get banned them's the breaks. But only if the mod staff starts acting like moderators and rules enforcers instead of counselors appealing to our better nature.

 

[DeletedUser33297]

OUTSTANDING!!! @Algona
Rules are only as good as your ability and/or willingness to enforce them.

 

[DeletedUser32973]

I'm not going to reply individually to the people defending their..."snarky"...behavior here, but I'm going to in general agree with the OP. I read quite a large amount of this forum before I actually started posting here, and it seriously soured my attitude. The forum as it stands is simply not a friendly environment at all. A lot of you have gotten way too used to making toxic replies to what you consider bad posts, bad questions, or simply different play styles, and it's bleeding all over the place. I agree with Algona in general that there needs to be more consistency from the mods. This is the internet, so we all need a thick skin, but the way the forum is now is hindering constructive discourse over the game, and likely driving new members and posters away.

Don't be surprised or offended when you get treated the way you treat others, including how you treat INNO and the game. If you want civil polite rationale discourse then try being civil, polite, and rationale. Everyone has a right to an opinion, which means that everyone has a right to the opinion that your opinion sucks.

I don't think the OP is talking about posts and threads that started off toxic. Often times there are serious threads and questions that have the first few replies as little quips and jokes that come off as insulting. There is a response in kind, and then it escalates, and it's usually the same people. My problem with your last portion is that if you go around saying people are morons because you think their opinions suck, then you're just turning the forum into more of a cesspool than it already is. There are ways to disagree with someone's opinion without bashing it or coming off as insulting.

 

[DeletedUser34874]

I both agree and disagree.

A forum needs to be an open discussion allowing all kind of opinions including those more in the sarcastic and jokingly. This is because it allows to have some humor in the forum and allows us to see the type of person they are should we see them in future posts.

But I agree it’s not helpful to the question. Though remember this. No one said you had to read it. Skin thru, remember helpful people, and take things with a grain of salt. It’s a game after.

If it’s help you need ask those you see helping more, check out the guides, or probably the best join a guild that promotes helping build lower player. It’s in the game that you find the most understanding people. Trust me I once asked my guild what motivating and polishing was

 

[DeletedUser25166]

Speaking about “gang-banging”, this already drunk girl staggers into a bar full of Sailors...........

 

[DeletedUser31882]

The reasons 'cracking down' has not worked for the current mod staff are moderation is not immediate, nor consistent, nor effective in the actions taken, and worst of all, blatant rules infractions are often completely unacted on.

We need a stronger mod presence on the Forum. The mod staff seems to vanish for days and weeks at a time. Too often when they do show up actions they take appear to be done in haste with little or no thought or consideration of circumstances, rules, or the subject at hand.

Try busting our balls. It worked for jaelis, it works for other forums. The mods must have the presence, inclination, and access to use effectibe mod tools like editing or deleting offending posts; moving, merging, deleting, and locking threads; temp and perma banning offenders.

Then consistently and immediately enforce them.

I'm willing to take the heat when I break the rules, if i get banned them's the breaks. But only if the mod staff starts acting like moderators and rules enforcers instead of counselors appealing to our better nature.

I presume it may be a lack of manpower. That and Moderating must be taxing, especially if there is no 24/7 coverage and moderation comes in 'late'.

*Contemplates applying for a mod position*

Speaking about “gang-banging”, this already drunk girl staggers into a bar full of Sailors...........

*Contemplation intensifies!*

But seriously; a good point on how the moderation team/forum/etc does or doesn't draw the line. Ye olde 'Censorship' versus 'Freedom of Speech' debate. Whose sensibilities do we benchmark?

I strongly recommend that the mod staff from top to bottom review and edit the rules and penalties for breaking the rules to meet your vision of what you want this community to be and make sure you understand your own rules. Then publish them for all to clearly see.

Then consistently and immediately enforce them.

I've seen this work in another forum I used to frequent. They were able to 'control' the conversation but still participated as members of the forum. More authoritarian then I'd like at times, but I think of that as the cost of molding a community into their vision. Keeping people on topics kept the discussion shorter, but more focused. Maybe that could help with @mamboking053 's point on having to sift through the snarky and toxic replies? *shrugs*

On-topic opinion: Community building is hard. Especially when it is a bunch of anonymous diehard fans of a browser/mobile game. Moderation can help mold it, but in the end, it is the individuals that determine how the community is defined. I think that statement had enough saccharine that I should moderate my sugar intake.

 

[DeletedUser33297]

I have never been a staff member on a site that has a link to apply for a staff position. All 3 sites/forums I have been involved with, approached the people they saw contributing on the site, and thought would be beneficial to the site, those that showed the maturity and mindset needed to do the job. Doing a good job on one forum doesn't guarantee a good performance elsewhere. I am relatively new here, but it appears to me this site just doesn't have enough bodies present to do what needs to be done.
Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[DeletedUser32389]

The reasons 'cracking down' has not worked for the current mod staff are moderation is not immediate, nor consistent, nor effective in the actions taken, and worst of all, blatant rules infractions are often completely unacted on.

We need a stronger mod presence on the Forum. The mod staff seems to vanish for days and weeks at a time. Too often when they do show up actions they take appear to be done in haste with little or no thought or consideration of circumstances, rules, or the subject at hand.

When I started posting here @Stephen Longshanks , and @Algona WERE the mods in my eyes. Settled more arguments, kept the conversation in line, and we're far more helpful to new players. It was at least a week or two before I saw any mod postings at all. New proposals, out of format and out of place. Dead threads that weren't closed resulting in zombies and confusion. There is ZERO response resembling ANYTHING technical, and most the mods seem to know about as much about what's going on as we do...

I've almost stopped posting here, will fade out shortly. None of it is "real". Proposals disappear into either. Other proposals that every experienced player on this board knows has a zero percent chance of implementation actually go up for vote. The DNS list isn't updated

The complete lack of response or tech knowledge from the mods renders them useless. Someone to cry to when an anonymous stranger types something that hurts your feelings? How about answering some of the questions around here that can only be answered by the techs? I've seen some real head scratchers that get nothing returned. If you see a question you can't answer, copy and paste it into an email and send the damn thing to someone who knows. Being an authority is about more than chiding the mean kid on the playground. If that's the extent of the mods job around here they'll never make a difference, or earn any respect.

My profile is a glimpse into the truth of all of this. I started out polite (as I really am) but snark set in, then the gifs... I like helping people so I applied to be a mod. Once I saw how things were run around here I decided not to play that card; I'm worth more as a regular player with an opinion. Don't know me from the boards yet? Got a little time on your hands? Run through my post history. I really do try to be constructive (or at least funny) 99% of the time.

If you're new to these boards, don't get your hopes up. It's really just a way to insulate INNO from their player base.

 

[DeletedUser31498]

I think it's a great point on a Guide-type post, where people may seek out information. For 99% of posts, the whole point is just to entertain ourselves, and moderation seems draconian. But when certain people hijack and HQS thread, for example, and berate proponents about how boring it is, then I 100% agree moderators should delete their comments (and the defensive aftermath) to stick to the meat and potatoes of the post.

 

[DeletedUser]

When I started posting here @Stephen Longshanks , and @Algona WERE the mods in my eyes. Settled more arguments, kept the conversation in line, and we're far more helpful to new players.

And when I started visiting and posting here regularly, Jaelis was the moderator. As far as I could tell he was the only active one at the time, but he was very visible. Calm, reasonable. I don't know how tech savvy he was, but he did know the game itself very well. When he retired from moderating, it turned into a zoo. I also contemplated being a moderator, and was approached by them, but decided not to, much like you did. Then they made a bad error in judgement in one moderator that they did "hire", which really made the fur fly around here. And now we're to the point where they rarely show up, they rarely seem to have a clue what's going on, and when they do act, it is not from a complete understanding of what's going on.

I was recently warned about one of my more innocuous posts being a violation of Forum rules. I explained in detail why it wasn't any of the things they claimed, and they refused to specify what part of my post was in violation. And this was a post that was really mild in comparison to some others I've posted, and not even close to how offensive some other posts in the same thread were. I have the feeling that the person that was disagreeing with me reported my post just because he didn't like me having and articulating a different viewpoint from his, and the mod just gave me a warning without even looking at the rest of the thread. In fact, since she wouldn't answer my question about specifics, I'm not sure she even read my post that she was warning me about.

 

[DeletedUser]

But when certain people hijack and HQS thread, for example, and berate proponents about how boring it is, then I 100% agree moderators should delete their comments (and the defensive aftermath) to stick to the meat and potatoes of the post.

I agree, and by the same token when there is a thread that has nothing to do with HQS, any comments referring to it should be deleted.

 

[DeletedUser33297]

And now we're to the point where they rarely show up, they rarely seem to have a clue what's going on, and when they do act, it is not from a complete understanding of what's going on.

That's a shame. Any forum has the potential to do good things. I did see a Mod just a while ago, was here for about 18 mins +/-.