DeletedUser10266
Mizwizard if you have an issue with plundering you should open a different thread instead of hijacking someone else's thread. This thread is suppose to be about what a fair hood is not antiplundering.
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DeletedUser9433
Are you serious? Listen to yourself, the primary reason to even care about a fair hood is plundering, winning medals in the PvP towers comes in a distant last.
DeletedUser10266
Everyone is so quick to attack everyone else instead of staying on topic. And whining about plundering is nowhere near the topic. I didnt say stop complaining I simply stated the fact that this thread is discussing a fair hood in regards to age range and if the person wanted to discuss plundering they should open a new thread instead of changing the subject of this thread.
DeletedUser9433
The subject of this thread is "What is a fair hood?" This may mean different things to different people, just because YOU say plundering isn't relevant to a fair hood doesn't make it so for others, in fact your complaint about tanks attacking is irrelevant to me so please start a different thread for that please, see how this works?
DeletedUser10266
please point out where I said plundering was irrelevant to what a fait hood is. The posts I was referring to serve no purpose other than to complain about plundering. They provide no opinion about a fair hood other than plundering is bad which there are a million of those threads. But once again people think they know what someone is thinking and would rather attack others than consider where they were coming from.
DeletedUser8944
Bruic is right we are getting off topic now. To mizwizards points her neighbors are the same age as her and thousands of points ahead, that's from battle points and fighting the hood usually that goes with my question should plunders be put with plunders? Now they log all of this stuff so I am sure it can be used to assemble appropriate hoods. but then there is someone like me who does not attack and plunder the hood on a daily basis I do it every 2 weeks or so to change things up mostly when im bored of attacking the map then I also trade as well so where would that put me??
DeletedUser
Talking about a fair hood IS talking about plundering. If I cannot compete with people, the hood is not fair. If I get plundered every day for close to 2 months by the same person, the hood is not fair. If during every hood changed I am still paired with that person, the hood is not fair.
It is not enough to work out an algorithm to keep like level people together, they should be totally changing the members of a hood to break up the plunderers from their victims. Some people just get off on screwing people in games, anonymity never brings out the best in people.
DeletedUser10266
But are you being plundered by same age people or people who are multiple ages higher? Points have nothing to do with a persons strength but more so reflects how active they are in pvp. If they are the same age and take the time to build up their military strength then how does that make it unfair? You can boost your defense to try to stop them. And if you truly believe there should be an opt out option as you previously stated then that should be in the proposal section not in a question thread that goes practically unnoticed by anyone in position to relay info to devs. I never said plundering shouldn't be considered in a fair hood discussion I was more so trying to direct you in a way to actually voice your opinion somewhere where it may have an impact. No offense meant but if it was taken that way I am sorry.
DeletedUser10755
I'm not sure if this thread is a venue for philosophical discussion or a platform for disappointed player's complaints, but either way it's a train wreck.
First the term "fair" is subjective. By its very nature, there will be many different ideas as to what is "fair" since this concept is based on individual opinion.
Second, why does the game have to be "fair"? In fact, the game never advertises anything about fairness or making you happy for that matter. If you have ever played games like FoE, you will know that competition is in its very core, and thus cannot be truly "fair".
Third, you should read through the "Do not propose" list; twice.
Lastly, I do agree that there may be a better formula or coding process to adjust the hood situation. However, the current system works for the majority of players. It may suck right now because it's not working for you, but the burden of change isn't on the game; it's on the player. Complaining about it and threatening to quit solves little and only cheapens your position.
First the term "fair" is subjective. By its very nature, there will be many different ideas as to what is "fair" since this concept is based on individual opinion.
Second, why does the game have to be "fair"? In fact, the game never advertises anything about fairness or making you happy for that matter. If you have ever played games like FoE, you will know that competition is in its very core, and thus cannot be truly "fair".
Third, you should read through the "Do not propose" list; twice.
Lastly, I do agree that there may be a better formula or coding process to adjust the hood situation. However, the current system works for the majority of players. It may suck right now because it's not working for you, but the burden of change isn't on the game; it's on the player. Complaining about it and threatening to quit solves little and only cheapens your position.
DeletedUser8152
@insane, I think the OP and most posters are well aware that people's definitions of fair will vary. To me, that seems like a good reason to talk about them, though I agree there is not much point in arguing with someone about what they think.
Regarding the do not propose list, this is not a proposal, this is a discussion. Or at least it is sometimes trying to be
Finally, I do think that games by their nature are supposed to be fair. And for the most part this game is; everyone has the same opportunities to succeed. However, placing some beginning players in a Modern Age hood and others in a Bronze Age hood gives the former a big disadvantage that has nothing to do with their own choices. To me that is not fair and I think it is a problem.
Regarding the do not propose list, this is not a proposal, this is a discussion. Or at least it is sometimes trying to be
Finally, I do think that games by their nature are supposed to be fair. And for the most part this game is; everyone has the same opportunities to succeed. However, placing some beginning players in a Modern Age hood and others in a Bronze Age hood gives the former a big disadvantage that has nothing to do with their own choices. To me that is not fair and I think it is a problem.
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DeletedUser8944
As Jaelis said this is not the Proposal secton but the question section, also I fully believe that they should be NO changes to plundering and agree it is on the "do not suggest list" for a reason.
And yes when early players are being attacked by tanks that is not "fair" by any means. Everyone opinion WILL be different as Mizwizard shows she thinks it unfair for someone of the same age to plunder her because he has many more point than her, so as I have said before whether or not INNO makes changes to the hood merge system someone will always say it's "unfair" because you have people that don't want to or believe in fighting and those that do.
Also as Jaelis said everyone has the same opportunities, from attacking to defending, you can get buildings to help their defense (Watchfires, Monestary, Tiger's Den, GB St. Basil and Deal Castle) yes I know people have a ton of Watchfires thats does not mean they are diamonds players I have a ton and have not spent and money on diamonds I used my Eggs in Easter to get a bunch of them, you could have too. As far as attacking its not that hard to learn how to attack other but if you choose to not fight then do complain about other attacking you it's part of the game, with that being said there are ways to help you, with attack GB Zeus, Cathedral of Aachen, and Castel Del Monte. If you get those 3 high enough you can defeat almost anyone off your age and maybe an age above you if you fight the battle right and get a good map and you can do it, its not that hard. Everyone has the same chances to get all of these things just some may be better at it than you and they should not be penalized for it maybe your guild could help you learn the game better.
Also it's the Do not suggest list [READ BEFORE POSTING] and I have read it many times, have you because it's not in the topic it's in another, being a little sarcastic here so don't get all bent out of shape about that comment LOL
I think the game is "fair" as I said before everyone has the same chances to get everything in the game but the one thing players have no control over is the hood merge system and there are some so glitches in it and I think it should be tweaked and INNO does listen to its players but please stop complaining about being plundered as there are ways to avoid being plundered and the first thing is COLLECT ON TIME which is why INNO will not make changes to the plundering system, but the hood merge system is not out of the question to get changed
And yes when early players are being attacked by tanks that is not "fair" by any means. Everyone opinion WILL be different as Mizwizard shows she thinks it unfair for someone of the same age to plunder her because he has many more point than her, so as I have said before whether or not INNO makes changes to the hood merge system someone will always say it's "unfair" because you have people that don't want to or believe in fighting and those that do.
Also as Jaelis said everyone has the same opportunities, from attacking to defending, you can get buildings to help their defense (Watchfires, Monestary, Tiger's Den, GB St. Basil and Deal Castle) yes I know people have a ton of Watchfires thats does not mean they are diamonds players I have a ton and have not spent and money on diamonds I used my Eggs in Easter to get a bunch of them, you could have too. As far as attacking its not that hard to learn how to attack other but if you choose to not fight then do complain about other attacking you it's part of the game, with that being said there are ways to help you, with attack GB Zeus, Cathedral of Aachen, and Castel Del Monte. If you get those 3 high enough you can defeat almost anyone off your age and maybe an age above you if you fight the battle right and get a good map and you can do it, its not that hard. Everyone has the same chances to get all of these things just some may be better at it than you and they should not be penalized for it maybe your guild could help you learn the game better.
Also it's the Do not suggest list [READ BEFORE POSTING] and I have read it many times, have you because it's not in the topic it's in another, being a little sarcastic here so don't get all bent out of shape about that comment LOL
I think the game is "fair" as I said before everyone has the same chances to get everything in the game but the one thing players have no control over is the hood merge system and there are some so glitches in it and I think it should be tweaked and INNO does listen to its players but please stop complaining about being plundered as there are ways to avoid being plundered and the first thing is COLLECT ON TIME which is why INNO will not make changes to the plundering system, but the hood merge system is not out of the question to get changed
DeletedUser
Just collect on time. Really getting tired of that comment, tell that to real life.
DeletedUser8944
See people read what they want to read and don't understand what we are trying to say, INNO will NOT change Plundering or Hood Merges because their is one way to stop being plundered COLLECT ON TIME, but I understand Real Life happens and on my other world I get plundered, don't care I move on with my day. I even got plundered for a 24 hour production and messed up my Summer event quest so now I am behind, I did not send him hate mail I just reset my timers and will try to collect on time next round. It happens both plundering and Real Life we know but INNO has made a way for you to not get plundered and that's what COLLECT ON TIME means, and that's why it won't get changed. Me, personally think the Hood Merge system works well for the most part with needing some tweaks to fix the drastic age gaps like PE vs HMA that is no where near fair, I can walk through a HMA army with easy and take no damage but I won't plunder those people, it's just to easy but there are players that will but that's life unfortunately
DeletedUser10755
Obviously this isn't the proposal section of the forum, but any logical conclusion to the very premise of this thread only results in the altering or limiting of plundering. I thought that was obvious, but I don't mind spelling it out. Again, considering the TOPIC, this thread is pointless.
Now, it was mentioned that it's not fair for Iron Age players to be plundered by ME, etc players. I would agree, but is there any evidence of this happening? So far any topic about "hood fairness" results in perpetual complaining or ideas of haphazardly rearranging hoods because of a vocal minority's outrage.
Have you ever wondered how many people are satisfied with the hood system? You will never really know because they are all too busy playing the game instead of griping about it, but you can bet that there are MANY more than those raising pitchforks because their gameplay experience is not what they expected or desired.
Now keeping on topic, many would agree that it would be fair if INNO eliminated diamonds from the game because it creates an unfair advantage for those fortunate enough with disposable income...see where I'm going with this?
Now, it was mentioned that it's not fair for Iron Age players to be plundered by ME, etc players. I would agree, but is there any evidence of this happening? So far any topic about "hood fairness" results in perpetual complaining or ideas of haphazardly rearranging hoods because of a vocal minority's outrage.
Have you ever wondered how many people are satisfied with the hood system? You will never really know because they are all too busy playing the game instead of griping about it, but you can bet that there are MANY more than those raising pitchforks because their gameplay experience is not what they expected or desired.
Now keeping on topic, many would agree that it would be fair if INNO eliminated diamonds from the game because it creates an unfair advantage for those fortunate enough with disposable income...see where I'm going with this?
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DeletedUser9433
Your comparison is disingenuous, the only reason the game exists is to generate profits. Now a fair hood should exist as well to help increase those same profits. The definition is a fair hood is so subjective I don't blame INNO for having troubles tackling this issue, that being said they should indeed devote resources to tweaking the neighborhood merge system so as to seem fair to the majority of people. A worldwide poll with some potential solutions might prove useful in this endeavor listing only options they would consider implementing.
DeletedUser8152
Question is, would fair hoods increase profits? I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure. Could be that keeping a few high-diamond players happy is worth losing a bunch of free players.
DeletedUser10755
You might want to look up disingenuous. I can assure you that my comparison is sincere. Maybe you were thinking of a false analogy, but this would still be incorrect since the center of the discussion is "fairness" and, without an doubt, the diamond system is unbalanced and favors certain demographics over others. The details may be different between the two, but the overarching themes remain the same.
Again, here we have claims that the majority of players are receiving an unfair dose of "fairness" and I'm still asking for evidence. A world-wide poll? I'm not trying to unduly criticize anyone's input here, but do you have any idea of the amount of time and money that would have to be dedicated to that? Ask yourself, from INNO's or any other company's perspective, "Is the juice worth the squeeze?".
You hit the nail on the head and perhaps didn't even realize it though; the only reason the game exists IS to generate profits. If this is the case, and I agree with you, there is absolutely zero incentive to change anything in therms of "fairness" because it would reduce profit. And until profits are legitimately compromised, you're not going to get INNO's attention.
Now if this thread existed for the sole purpose of each player to discuss what fairness is, that would be just fine and dandy. However, that's not what we have here. Based on what people are writing, this is an attempt to generate momentum for change and worse, a platform for complaints. You see, a few unhappy players are trying to recognize and solve a problem that INNO and the rest of us DO NOT BELIEVE TO EXIST.
Two words: Futility & Insanity.
DeletedUser5356
"Question is, would fair hoods increase profits? I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure. Could be that keeping a few high-diamond players happy is worth losing a bunch of free players."
You seem to be under the assumption that "fair" is only relevant to you freeloaders, jaelis. A fair hood has to incorporate the diamond users, as well.
There are Warriors and Traders...the "fairness" of the hood needs to address both sides, not just the side your on.
There are freeloaders and diamond users...it would not be "fair" to only set up hoods to accommodate you freeloaders.
Yes, it would be better to keep the diamond players happy, since you freeloaders add nothing to the game.
You seem to be under the assumption that "fair" is only relevant to you freeloaders, jaelis. A fair hood has to incorporate the diamond users, as well.
There are Warriors and Traders...the "fairness" of the hood needs to address both sides, not just the side your on.
There are freeloaders and diamond users...it would not be "fair" to only set up hoods to accommodate you freeloaders.
Yes, it would be better to keep the diamond players happy, since you freeloaders add nothing to the game.
DeletedUser8152
I don't believe most people have claimed that the majority of players are being treated unfairly. Based on my experience (and my criteria for what is fair) it is only a small minority who get stuck in unreasonable hoods. I still think that should be fixed, unless, as noted, Inno feels it increases revenue in some way.
Because of course if it doesn't generate revenue then it wouldn't exist at all.
Though I think it would be an interesting experiment to make a server with no diamonds for purchase, maybe everyone gets the same monthly allotment to buy specials. But you'd have to pay a monthly subscription to be on it. Would people be willing to pay to avoid some of the problems they talk about?
DeletedUser2145
We add the community, the player base that would not exist and without it the game would likely crumble since there would be only a small number of premium users. Just like premium users provide the profit for the game without which the game would not exist, those who play for free provide the availability for competition. There would be little point in using premium currency if there is no one to match or surpass with its use.
The thread it about fairness in neighborhoods, let's stay on topic. OP says:
It asks for opinion about what it means to everyone, and it says -maybe- make a proposal. So it's not about plundering, it's not about premium vs. non-premium users. You're of course free to base your opinion about "fair" hoods on those things, but let's not go off-topic here and discuss those things in this same thread.
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