[Question] Why am I always put at the end in new neighborhoods?

[DeletedUser31592]

Rabid plunderers are gonna pop anyone they can but a new factor kicked in late last year: Every time any hoodie gets a DC to win fights or defeat troops they wander down to the lowest player in the hood and start beating up those poor yutzes. And as long as they are smashing the yutz in the face, mise plunder. amirite?

Especially the "Win X Battles without losing". OF COURSE I go straight to the bottom and work backwards. I have to win them in a row without a defeat. Why would I start anywhere else? So much easier to go for the guarantee.

Lately, when I'm bored, I will start at the bottom of my neighborhood and work my way backwards, seeing how far I can go without losing a single troop. I'm not a fighter, and until late last summer had a whopping 40 battles under my belt with 2.5 years in the game. My attack boost in my main is embarrassingly low- lower than my boost in Zorskog, my newest city- and I can still get from the bottom of my hood into the 30s with 1 Anti-Aircraft Vehicle and 7 Rogues before loosing a troop. My only military GB is a level 7 Zeus. I can't imagine what I could do if I actually tried. And, I might. (I've never plundered from that city, and don't plan to.)

 

[DeletedUser26965]

Thought I'd revisit this with a bit of a look and a bit of data at IA hoods on 21 cities.

Looking at the top player and bottom player points wise the average top player points came out to about 939,000 and the bottom player points averaged out to about 766. The most extreme I found was 7,931,000 to 824. The least extreme was 48,450 to 740, on the latest world.

Spoiler: Stats

World - Top - Bottom
K 7931000 824
E 1439000 495
G 1258000 940
J 982000 871
Q 696000 1042
Y 692000 985
O 683000 629
N 664000 659
S 627000 1342
M 562000 504
R 534000 806
U 505000 783
B 502000 900
A 500000 700
F 487000 659
H 456000 484
L 451000 709
P 316000 629
C 249000 462
Z 146000 920
A2 48450 740

Here's a pic of the cities from the worse one;

Spoiler

A hood overall from top player to bottom player generally looks like this on a graph(this was three cities datas worth combined but single city data generally looks the same);

Spoiler

I think with such disparities there should be efforts made to make hoods a bit more even like I mentioned in an earlier post like something similar to weight classes in sports. Just glancing over a bit of data it seems like they could have something like maybe 5+ classes/tiers, here's a sample of a city that had 85 players;

Spoiler

249000
118000
96000
78000
78000
58000
53000
46000
37000
36000
33000
33000
28000
24000
21000
20000
20000
16000
14000
13000
10000
8800
7100
6800
6600
6500
6500
5700
5600
4900
4700
4700
4600
4500
3800
3600
3600
3600
3500
3500
3300
3300
3200
3200
3000
2900
2900
2700
2600
2500
2500
2500
2400
2400
2300
2200
2000
2000
2000
1900
1700
1700
1500
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1300
1300
1000
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800
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700
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500
500
400
400

I guess a couple questions arise like do you have players from various ages mixed together if their points are similar, not sure. I guess maybe another issue can arise about how many available players in each class there could be on a world at any given time but that gets me wondering if neighborhood competitions could be cross world like GE Championships if you need to keep hoods filled and varied often.

So roughly speaking tiered neighborhoods would look something like this;

Spoiler

as opposed to this

I suppose maybe another solution would be to introduce a handicap.

 

[DeletedUser35146]

The problem in that hood are players, that camp in IA for ever (well at least for a year or so).
So if there should be any change, than that the neigbourhoods should take the time of playing into account.

Problem is, I do not think that this is a data available to INNO, the achievement FOE Fan club counts all days from the day the city was founded till today, even if you have not been playing for a while. So I am afraid, this is way of putting neighbourhoods together is impossible.

The problem with the old was not so much that it normally hat put together three ages, but that it very often failed, so putting really low age players from IA or EMA into hoods consisting mostly of last era players. And because of that bug they changed the way of the neigbourhoods, probably because that was easier than fixing the bug in the old way.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

Thought I'd revisit this with a bit of a look and a bit of data at IA hoods on 21 cities.

I doubt there's a perfect system, but i don't think points are any better than what we have now as they can be distorted in a number of ways. (Age, Points) even less so as now you have the most active 80 OF players in the same hood with each other, and they're entirely useless trade partners even moreso than our current hoods.

Personally I miss the old hoods with 3 age spreads where you'd always have some players an age or two ahead or below you who have different trade needs than you do and therefore give you a more fluid market (friends lists and guilds aren't exactly a good representation of players near you in general to trade with and are resistant to changing composition). Some of the best hoods I've been in since the change are the top hood in a new world with the 75 most advanced tech players in them (since there's not enough of any of the advanced ages you regularly have hoods stretching from FE down to PE) - and i'm usually the bottom of those hoods when i make it there. Yes I have to be careful not to be plundered too often, but there's a small handful i can plunder to make up for it, or i can just collect on time. And while strong hoodmates can be dangerous, they can also be useful

 

[DeletedUser26965]

I doubt there's a perfect system, but i don't think points are any better than what we have now as they can be distorted in a number of ways. (Age, Points) even less so as now you have the most active 80 OF players in the same hood with each other, and they're entirely useless trade partners even moreso than our current hoods.

Well, this is more a question of fighting balance rather than trade. Points is certainly better than the crazy wide spread they have now. I suppose instead of points then they can do some sort of attack power, other attack GB's, traz, units dynamic thing to match players.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

I don't think hoods should be the same fighting power either though. Developing a goods-oriented city instead of a combat-oriented city is a choice. Advancing fast vs building up is a choice. That you get to see a wide variety of different choices in a hood isn't a bad thing. In the same way I like to see different ages whether I'm the high age or low age, I like to see plunderers in my pacifist cities, and I like to see easy marks in my plundering cities. A monochromatic 'fair' game makes for a very boring game.

Edit : And I'll add, the old system where sometimes the camper occasionally winds up in a higher hood also helped with the 'fairness' of that choice in that sometimes they have to be the underdog because they can't have the units yet to compete with the higher age players in their hood. Even if you weren't strictly speaking a camper there was always the subtle feeling of pressure to advance in tech to 'keep up with the Jones''. I think since the neighborhood system change camping has become more widespread because of this. I really think the best option is to go back to something close to the old system and just tweak it a little - perhaps along the lines of if in one rotation you're the bottom of your hood, next rotation you're given preference to be near the top of one.

 

[DeletedUser]

Personally I miss the old hoods with 3 age spreads

When was this? The system immediately previous to the current one frequently had neighbors several ages apart. I'm talking a spread of Bronze up to Modern on a fairly regular basis. I remember one of my first cities being LMA and constantly getting attacked by Future Era players. This system works fine, it's the players who don't want to develop their cities as they go that are the problem.

 

[DeletedUser33339]

The hoods are decided based on the TH level. Ranking points have no effect. The system should not be changed to benefit a vocal minority.

Instead, you can do one (or more) of 3 things
1.) Put down WF's or RF's.
2.) Invest in defensive GB's.
3.) Collect on time (by far the easiest).

Since they might now know and it is often assumed on here that people know everything and dont. can you explain better what WF's and RF's are? I am guessing ritual flame and watchfire but not sure. since these can not be bought but only won in GE telling someone to put them down is not very helpful.

To the original post. Your points or rank in the neighborhood or where you are placed are not the same. Ranking points are effected by alot of things including GB. so depending on the Age you are in say Iron age. Build an arc ( trade and use forge points to buy goods) and it will greatly boost your "rank" and place you at a different area in the neighborhood. But it will not change if you are attacked or plundered. The best way to deal with being attacked is accept its going to happen. You have options though. First if you are attacked and NOT plundered, then just dont even care. You lost nothing. ( I attack neighbors and never plunder for quests ) If you are attacked and plundered then you have a few options. First ask the person nicely not to plunder you. Raise your defense. ( many ways to do this) change up your defending army. ( if you dont have a defending army then get one as it never dies from defending) Try adding the attacker / plunderer as a friend. then they will not attack any more.

Hope this helps

 

[DeletedUser29726]

When was this? The system immediately previous to the current one frequently had neighbors several ages apart. I'm talking a spread of Bronze up to Modern on a fairly regular basis. I remember one of my first cities being LMA and constantly getting attacked by Future Era players. This system works fine, it's the players who don't want to develop their cities as they go that are the problem.

There was occasionally a low age outlier thrown in a higher hood due to failures of the system, especially in new worlds with not many high age players. But in a long established world, by and large a hood with TE people only stretched down to ME or PME. And this meant a TE player might be able to trade down for some CE goods from a player preparing to move up to TE. or trade up some of their ME goods from their GBs into PME or CE goods because ME goods aren't an ideal item for PME or CE players to make. Now instead that TE player is in a hood with other TE players all facing the same sorts of gluts and shortages.

 

[DeletedUser31592]

To the original post. Your points or rank in the neighborhood or where you are placed are not the same. Ranking points are effected by alot of things including GB. so depending on the Age you are in say Iron age. Build an arc ( trade and use forge points to buy goods) and it will greatly boost your "rank" and place you at a different area in the neighborhood. But it will not change if you are attacked or plundered.

If you don't think hood ranking is correlated to the number of times you are attacked (and therefore plundered), you have some learning to do.

Generally, if you are in the bottom 20 or so, you are going to be a huge target. Top-5 will rarely get attacked, and then only by complete idiots or serious PvPers. 6-10 isn't attacked often, either, but I'd say more than the top 5. 11-20 is also a good place to be- not too many will target you. The rest (the middle) is all about the same.

 

[DeletedUser33297]

This game is, and I presume has always been about the choices we make and how we apply those choices to develop our playing 'style.' The problem with trying to group players fairly is who decides whats fair? With so many factors involved ie:
Some people play 5 mins a day, while others work at it continuously.
Some people fight constantly and some never fight.
Some people have 10+ GBs in EMA and some have 2+ in LMA.
Some people do 64 GE encounters every week, and some do none.
Some people do GVG and some don't.
Some people understand how to play and some have no clue.
The point I am trying to make is, I doubt you would ever get groups of 80 players that had parity across the board. Like anything else in life, usually the harder you work at something, the better off you should be. If you are a casual player, it goes to reason that someone who puts more effort into this game is going to dominate you in most cases.
As for the number of people unhappy with this system, the way it is now....I dont think it matters. You can't please all of the people, all of the time.
Just an opinion from the cheap seats.

 

[DeletedUser33339]

If you don't think hood ranking is correlated to the number of times you are attacked (and therefore plundered), you have some learning to do.

how is your ranking in the hood changed when you are attacked and plundered? i have never changed positions in my hood when i have attacked.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

how is your ranking in the hood changed when you are attacked and plundered? i have never changed positions in my hood when i have attacked.

Most people when they go hood shopping for free goods start at the bottom of their neighborhood list and work their way up til they're out of time or healthy troops. This tends to mean the top 5-10 of a hood don't get targetted even when there is a plunderer in the hood. Note though that other than really new worlds there's not that many plunderers anyways. It's quite possible to not get attacked even as a low ranking member of your hood some rotations. It's particularly the case in the highest age hoods as far as i've found. OF players tend to be fairly drained of interest in putting in additional effort into the game of any sort. And Arc owners tend to make a lot more profit they care about through low effort voluntary sniping than high effort attacks and return visits to plunder.

 

[DeletedUser33339]

Most people when they go hood shopping for free goods start at the bottom of their neighborhood list and work their way up til they're out of time or healthy troops. This tends to mean the top 5-10 of a hood don't get targetted even when there is a plunderer in the hood. Note though that other than really new worlds there's not that many plunderers anyways. It's quite possible to not get attacked even as a low ranking member of your hood some rotations. It's particularly the case in the highest age hoods as far as i've found. OF players tend to be fairly drained of interest in putting in additional effort into the game of any sort. And Arc owners tend to make a lot more profit they care about through low effort voluntary sniping than high effort attacks and return visits to plunder.

ok so this in no way that i can see answers my question or has anything to do with it. 75 people in a hood. i am #25 i attack #75 - #40. i am still rank #25. this does not change. your rank in a hood is not changed by attacking and plundering

 

[DeletedUser29726]

ok so this in no way that i can see answers my question or has anything to do with it. 75 people in a hood. i am #25 i attack #75 - #40. i am still rank #25. this does not change. your rank in a hood is not changed by attacking and plundering

Well successful attacks do gain points. And successful attacks often require GB levels which gain points. Points are often representative of ability to attack. One attack's not going to do much - but say 50 attacks a day? You'll move up the rankings in your hood.

Edit : and JC's point was merely what i stated that if you're lower in the hood you're more likely to be attacked. Not that you're lower in the hood BECAUSE you get attacked.

 

[DeletedUser]

There was occasionally a low age outlier thrown in a higher hood due to failures of the system, especially in new worlds with not many high age players. But in a long established world, by and large a hood with TE people only stretched down to ME or PME. And this meant a TE player might be able to trade down for some CE goods from a player preparing to move up to TE. or trade up some of their ME goods from their GBs into PME or CE goods because ME goods aren't an ideal item for PME or CE players to make. Now instead that TE player is in a hood with other TE players all facing the same sorts of gluts and shortages.

My experience on multiple worlds back then was that it was not just "outliers", there were players spread across a wide range of eras on all worlds, new and older, in almost every hood.

 

[DeletedUser26965]

My experience on multiple worlds back then was that it was not just "outliers", there were players spread across a wide range of eras on all worlds, new and older, in almost every hood.

really so what, if you have a player with 10,000,000 points in IA or a player in FE with 1,000,000 points is in your hood they're both squashing everyone like a bug anyway.

 

[Ta 152H]

My experience on multiple worlds back then was that it was not just "outliers", there were players spread across a wide range of eras on all worlds, new and older, in almost every hood.

The new system isn't perfect, but you're absolutely right, the old system was horrendous. I'd be in CE, and have a few BA guys in my hood. On other cities, I'd be in CA, and be in with FE guys, and even then had 15 guys below me. You really had no control over where you went, and unless you wanted to spend the money so you could compete with ANYONE, there was no way to use the system so you could at least be competitive; you'd get moved in unpredictable ways.

Now, you know you're going to be in the right age, and can take action so you're competitive in that age, if you wish. If you decide not to, that's a choice. If you end up with someone way above you, you at least are using the same age troops, and it's probably only going to be one or two people that are way ahead of you, assuming you haven't slowed down a lot yourself so you're near the top of the hood. Which you can be.

Unlike the old days where you could end up anywhere. And I daresay, someone with 10M in IA is not nearly formidable as someone in FE with a few million points. At least the IA guy you'd have a chance, if you chose, to do something against if you've built up your combat abilities. The FE guy you'd have zero chance against with IA troops, no matter what you did.

 

[DeletedUser29726]

I might not have 10M points in IA, but my IA-camp world is over 1M and i don't even have pvp unlocked so i'm not really squashing people like a bug Even when that pvp-tech wasn't implemented yet I never attacked. A few people would attack me (i have shiny palaces and terrace farms they might like to plunder - i did setup a 'good' defense, but it's not boosted so it was very beatable if they brought in the right stuff). My only interaction with my hood in that world is I post favorable 1 iron age per 1 bronze age trades for them to take, and I use my arc to profit off some of their GBs (which often gets a thank you message from them).

 

[Agent327]

ok so this in no way that i can see answers my question or has anything to do with it. 75 people in a hood. i am #25 i attack #75 - #40. i am still rank #25. this does not change. your rank in a hood is not changed by attacking and plundering

You get points from fighting. Do it enough and you will pass the player that is above you and you will be #24 in the hood.