RazorbackPirate
Well-Known Member
Cause once wasn't enough?
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DeletedUser
I am assuming that since they start with stating that only 5% of players are involved in gvg that this is intent on killing gvg down the line. Otherwise why bother.
DreadfulCadillac
Well-Known Member
you obviously dont understand what they meant?they were comparing ge and gvg, and thats why they are creting somthing new?cant you listen to EVERYONE saying that it wil exsist alongside gvg, and gvg wont be deleted
DeletedUser18851
I just don't understand the logic behind this. Look...
Problem: GvG broken
Inno solution: Apply busywork bandage (GE)
Problem: GvG still broken, GvG players hate GE
Inno solution: Apply busywork bandage (Guild Battlegrounds -- ie. GE 2.0)
Problem: GvG will still be broken, despite whatever click-bait "improvements" you've alluded to. You've doubled the amount of busywork and drain on players resources and the problem is still not solved.
We end on a problem, not a solution. You should have learned your lesson from GE that you cannot appease the GvG base by adding a beefed up GE 2.0, and that is exactly what this is. Lipstick on a pig... it's still a pig.
My advice: Rip off the bandage. Remove GvG and GE completely, let those people quit and make their peace (myself included), and start over. GvG is broken and GE is too mindless, repetitive and boring. Stop trying to put band-aids on an impossible "it's complicated" problem. Proceed with Guild Battlegrounds. Junk settlements. Rework ToR, support pool and treasury goods so they apply to GB. Call GB something different so people don't get it mixed up with GB's.
Problems with the proposed path forward:
1) Can't choose your opponent; personal rivalries will still be fought out in a broken system
2) 95% of guild rank comes from a feature 5% play; very little detail in the GB proposal about balancing this
3) Does not solve brainless champ farming that allows the biggest losers appear to be the biggest winners at zero personal cost. Removing GvG fixes that. Stop rewarding mindless players with disproportionate points by using artillery that can destroy infinite champ armies without losing a single unit.
4) Does not solve worthless guild treasuries for higher eras
5) Doesn't even come close to requiring the same level of coordination as GvG; again, it's just another variant of GE.
6) Considering you plan on keeping GvG and GE, rewards for this new feature are not at all tempting as they've been presented considering the competition for players attention and focus
7) If you're trying to simplify things, you need to remove GvG and GE and focus on GB. Imagine the confusion of new players trying to figure out where they will participate - GvG, GE, or GB - not to mention the strain on their resources.
---
Many on my server organized a cease-fire for a week while we composed a letter to Inno regarding our concerns with GvG. We sent it in early March. It is probably the most thoughtful and well-composed feedback they have ever received about anything. It was supposedly forwarded to the developers and I personally delivered it to a game designer via Facebook message. You can read the letter here. Despite pestering Panacea repeatedly for a response, Inno never provided one. Not even an acknowledgement of receipt, let alone an acknowledgement of our concerns. Not a peep. Maybe they took it into consideration, maybe they didn't. How could we possibly know?
Problem: GvG broken
Inno solution: Apply busywork bandage (GE)
Problem: GvG still broken, GvG players hate GE
Inno solution: Apply busywork bandage (Guild Battlegrounds -- ie. GE 2.0)
Problem: GvG will still be broken, despite whatever click-bait "improvements" you've alluded to. You've doubled the amount of busywork and drain on players resources and the problem is still not solved.
We end on a problem, not a solution. You should have learned your lesson from GE that you cannot appease the GvG base by adding a beefed up GE 2.0, and that is exactly what this is. Lipstick on a pig... it's still a pig.
My advice: Rip off the bandage. Remove GvG and GE completely, let those people quit and make their peace (myself included), and start over. GvG is broken and GE is too mindless, repetitive and boring. Stop trying to put band-aids on an impossible "it's complicated" problem. Proceed with Guild Battlegrounds. Junk settlements. Rework ToR, support pool and treasury goods so they apply to GB. Call GB something different so people don't get it mixed up with GB's.
Problems with the proposed path forward:
1) Can't choose your opponent; personal rivalries will still be fought out in a broken system
2) 95% of guild rank comes from a feature 5% play; very little detail in the GB proposal about balancing this
3) Does not solve brainless champ farming that allows the biggest losers appear to be the biggest winners at zero personal cost. Removing GvG fixes that. Stop rewarding mindless players with disproportionate points by using artillery that can destroy infinite champ armies without losing a single unit.
4) Does not solve worthless guild treasuries for higher eras
5) Doesn't even come close to requiring the same level of coordination as GvG; again, it's just another variant of GE.
6) Considering you plan on keeping GvG and GE, rewards for this new feature are not at all tempting as they've been presented considering the competition for players attention and focus
7) If you're trying to simplify things, you need to remove GvG and GE and focus on GB. Imagine the confusion of new players trying to figure out where they will participate - GvG, GE, or GB - not to mention the strain on their resources.
---
Many on my server organized a cease-fire for a week while we composed a letter to Inno regarding our concerns with GvG. We sent it in early March. It is probably the most thoughtful and well-composed feedback they have ever received about anything. It was supposedly forwarded to the developers and I personally delivered it to a game designer via Facebook message. You can read the letter here. Despite pestering Panacea repeatedly for a response, Inno never provided one. Not even an acknowledgement of receipt, let alone an acknowledgement of our concerns. Not a peep. Maybe they took it into consideration, maybe they didn't. How could we possibly know?
vickson
New Member
the amount of people who think GVG will be deleted is ridiculous, clearly they didnt even bother reading the entire post and just went straight into the comments. they specifically said they wont be replacing GVG, they will be adding a new feature so it will be GE, GVG and this new feature.
as for my opinion, I am excited , this is a long time coming, finally a GVG that isnt passive like GE and isnt too high strung like the current GVG. I look forward to it being released on live servers.
as for my opinion, I am excited , this is a long time coming, finally a GVG that isnt passive like GE and isnt too high strung like the current GVG. I look forward to it being released on live servers.
DeletedUser28827
This is nothing more than GE for guilds. Inno is insulting the intelligence of their members by dumbing down the most challenging and strategic aspect of the game.
DeletedUser7967
Maybe you can also change the rest time every week or so. At this time it is at 8:00 next week change to 9:00 and then 10:00 the following week. Not all are off at 8:00 est.
DeletedUser16084
We don't need another layer of the game to keep up with. There are aps out there that will allow you to play GVG on your phone, but no one wants to download a questionable ap. Why not copy or buy that ap and integrate it into the game for phone users. Also, many computer users gave up on GVG because it is too much a race after recalc. So if you can't be home from work at that time and if you have a slow computer you really cannot participate. The slow computer issue is frustrating. GVG is something you can't be effective at unless you have a fast computer and can be online at recalc.
DeletedUser
I came up with a radical idea. 1. Throw everyone off all the gvg maps for a week. 2. Have a redesigned world that has fewer grids per age so there can be a map for all the ages including say 4 more. 3. Make all grids landing grids. 4. Have roll over times once a week.
Light Owl
New Member
I am not a GvG player. One of my guilds is a GE powerhouse but we have chosen not to become involved in GvG. My other guild does have some players who have recently started trying to do GvG, but I'm not, and on the whole I wish we weren't doing so. One of the things I have always looked for in a guild is that it be a non-GvG guild.
Therefore I think my feedback might be useful to you, as I presume I'm the sort of player you are hoping to attract.
The single most important thing that would persuade me to become involved in this Guild Battlefields minigame is if, like GE, the other teams were almost always drawn from other servers. This is absolutely critical, because I have seen (in a couple of weeks I once spent in a couple of different GvG guilds) how devastating to one's ordinary game it can be when guilds on the same server start feuding, so that even lowbies are plundered regularly by GvG opponents.
If I'm going to compete in any game, I want my competition to stay firmly within the bounds of that game and I want to be able to go and build my city in peace, without having to worry about people's attacking it just because my guild happened to be doing better than their guild at a minigame.
The second most important thing would be to have us be able to contribute to Guild Battlegrounds as we contribute to GE, on our own time schedule, without having to meet online at the same time as our guildmates to do battle.
The third most important thing you're already doing: that would be to allow points to be scored by negotiation as well as by battle.
And once you've created this League structure that actually rewards stiffer competition with better prizes, I do wish you would add it to GE. My GE-powerhouse guild has often wished that, on weeks when three or four of the teams involved have turned in over 100%, we had been playing for some sort of bonus.
Therefore I think my feedback might be useful to you, as I presume I'm the sort of player you are hoping to attract.
The single most important thing that would persuade me to become involved in this Guild Battlefields minigame is if, like GE, the other teams were almost always drawn from other servers. This is absolutely critical, because I have seen (in a couple of weeks I once spent in a couple of different GvG guilds) how devastating to one's ordinary game it can be when guilds on the same server start feuding, so that even lowbies are plundered regularly by GvG opponents.
If I'm going to compete in any game, I want my competition to stay firmly within the bounds of that game and I want to be able to go and build my city in peace, without having to worry about people's attacking it just because my guild happened to be doing better than their guild at a minigame.
The second most important thing would be to have us be able to contribute to Guild Battlegrounds as we contribute to GE, on our own time schedule, without having to meet online at the same time as our guildmates to do battle.
The third most important thing you're already doing: that would be to allow points to be scored by negotiation as well as by battle.
And once you've created this League structure that actually rewards stiffer competition with better prizes, I do wish you would add it to GE. My GE-powerhouse guild has often wished that, on weeks when three or four of the teams involved have turned in over 100%, we had been playing for some sort of bonus.
DeletedUser3882
#1 I can’t remember a time/event/announcement that brought more players out from the woodworks in droves on the forum. So kudos Inno. You can see players are yearning for something. Half the players responding didn’t bother to read the announcement it seems or they have no idea what they're yearning for, but yearning nonetheless...
I *did* read through all this mess and a couple thoughts. I’m sure more info will be coming, and more thoughts/questions as we go...
WHY 10 DAYS??? Just one of my personal gripes with events and such, what with all of the complete x of this, produce y of that, over and over, is that I’m relieved an event is finally over so I can take a day (or more) to get everything reset. This has the same feel. For 7+ years, many game mechanics have been on a set schedule. PvP towers reset every Monday. New GE begins Tuesday morn. GvG reset at 8pm. Battlegrounds: What flippin’ day is it again?!? What’s wrong with just 7 days. (If it needs to be longer, why not 14?) Starting Tuesday along with new GE? (Nothing was stated if *GE* would be replaced!).
My point here is not hard to assertain. We players have become accustomed to the “weekly” schedule. Knowing past issues (to include recalc lag), I’d find it better if we all knew come Tuesday morning the game would be “updating” with all of the things at 0800 and we know to wait until 0830.
GUILD RANKING How many prestige points are we talking here?!? How much is this “upgradeable building” actually worth? Does it scale with players age like everything else in the game? The points gained in Battlegrounds applies once at the end?? Really? I mean, there’s simply no way any guild wanting to climb in rank can compete unless they’re active in GvG with present system in place with DAILY calculations. So an active guild victorious in battlegrounds will see a big jump in rank ONCE. Then following day, big drop back to where they were. Any plans for the ranking system to be tweaked to allow for a non-GvG guild to actually compete? Otherwise, GvG will remain the dominant factor as it stands. Compete in GvG if one wants to be the best!
NEW ALL AGES GB Seen a couple of comments in changing the Observatory to allow for some kind of use in this new feature. I’d argue he77 to the no unless the above ranking is addressed. Obs is a GvG GB primarily and looks like GvG is still the winner. I’m implying that a new ALL AGES GB is in development for primary use in Battlegrounds much like the ToR for GE? If not, get to work! Maybe a %reduction in attrition per level? %boost to the chance of those FPs as a secondary?
More to come I’m sure...
I *did* read through all this mess and a couple thoughts. I’m sure more info will be coming, and more thoughts/questions as we go...
WHY 10 DAYS??? Just one of my personal gripes with events and such, what with all of the complete x of this, produce y of that, over and over, is that I’m relieved an event is finally over so I can take a day (or more) to get everything reset. This has the same feel. For 7+ years, many game mechanics have been on a set schedule. PvP towers reset every Monday. New GE begins Tuesday morn. GvG reset at 8pm. Battlegrounds: What flippin’ day is it again?!? What’s wrong with just 7 days. (If it needs to be longer, why not 14?) Starting Tuesday along with new GE? (Nothing was stated if *GE* would be replaced!).
My point here is not hard to assertain. We players have become accustomed to the “weekly” schedule. Knowing past issues (to include recalc lag), I’d find it better if we all knew come Tuesday morning the game would be “updating” with all of the things at 0800 and we know to wait until 0830.
GUILD RANKING How many prestige points are we talking here?!? How much is this “upgradeable building” actually worth? Does it scale with players age like everything else in the game? The points gained in Battlegrounds applies once at the end?? Really? I mean, there’s simply no way any guild wanting to climb in rank can compete unless they’re active in GvG with present system in place with DAILY calculations. So an active guild victorious in battlegrounds will see a big jump in rank ONCE. Then following day, big drop back to where they were. Any plans for the ranking system to be tweaked to allow for a non-GvG guild to actually compete? Otherwise, GvG will remain the dominant factor as it stands. Compete in GvG if one wants to be the best!
NEW ALL AGES GB Seen a couple of comments in changing the Observatory to allow for some kind of use in this new feature. I’d argue he77 to the no unless the above ranking is addressed. Obs is a GvG GB primarily and looks like GvG is still the winner. I’m implying that a new ALL AGES GB is in development for primary use in Battlegrounds much like the ToR for GE? If not, get to work! Maybe a %reduction in attrition per level? %boost to the chance of those FPs as a secondary?
More to come I’m sure...
Kesto11
Member
I think the Guild Battlegrounds system looks very intriguing. There is a second post on the announcement that gives a lot more details about the framework and to me it seems like a temporary GvG with more depth and rewards, allowing people to participate as much as they want regardless of age.
I enjoy GvG when able to fight, but most of the time we are defensive and passive, so nothing really happens other than checking on maps. Plus, many people are hesitant to participate at all due to the learning curve, diplomacy, etc. I like the permanence of GvG, and think the temporal structure of Guild Battlegrounds could be a lot of fun if it is done well and provides proportional rewards to the amount of time/effort it would take.
I enjoy GvG when able to fight, but most of the time we are defensive and passive, so nothing really happens other than checking on maps. Plus, many people are hesitant to participate at all due to the learning curve, diplomacy, etc. I like the permanence of GvG, and think the temporal structure of Guild Battlegrounds could be a lot of fun if it is done well and provides proportional rewards to the amount of time/effort it would take.
DeletedUser28827
I believe the truth behind this ridiculous move is that Inno has neither the will nor the means to fix the problems with GvG, especially the issue of bots and other invasive programming techniques that are infiltrating GvG at an alarming rate.
DeletedUser8115
Address the cheating. Stop pretending it's not happening, stop the gaslighting with staff members telling people "Not everything is what it seems" or this turns into another feature that drives more paying customers straight to your competitors.
Cybrweez
New Member
Wanted to read through all feedback, but first 3 pages, seems only half the people actually read the proposal. Wasted feedback.
I can only hope Guild Battlegrounds means many of these GvG whiners will quit the game. Since its 5% of players, they wouldn't be missed. GvG is the joke, the only ones who disagree have been invested for years and can't see their baby die. GE is boring? Lol, 10x more players doing it. GvG - be on at 8pm EST or don't bother; wow, excitement to the max! And all it brings is guild power for all that effort/investment? When your guild is at max level, what is the point? Guild ranking? Lol.
Some things I like about new proposal:
- rewards at the end, which does include power, but also rewards for contributors, if guild level is maxed still worth participating
- option to negotiate, I know many prefer to focus on goods and not attack, why shut them out of guild participation? (though I too hope each negotiation becomes more expensive). This may have side effects, increasing value of goods, making it harder to get a Terracotta Army in Iron Age, b/c less people want to give away that many goods?
- attrition, I like the idea of limiting attack (analogous to more expensive negotiations), but agree that reset to 0 at certain time reproduces GvG bane
- would like to see AF and later guild goods be useful (tho will miss the observatory and atomium that I removed after FE b/c they were useless), I'm guessing province buildings would use them up, tho older guilds have hundreds of thousands, millions. Could cost of these buildings be determined by points of all players in guild, similar to how GE power is accrued?
- leagues seem to address stronger guilds against stronger guilds, this doesn't happen in GE, just guilds w/same member number are grouped, this could be a big improvement over GE and GvG
I wouldn't worry about difficulty of picking up a new feature that is guild oriented. GvG's learning curve is steeper than any other feature, but that means the guild has to work together to figure it out, or at least introduce new comers. That's a good thing I think, so if Battlegrounds has more complexity than GE, go for it, and allow guilds to work together to handle the curve.
It does appear this feature will remove alliances, working with other guilds. Basically cutthroat. Unless there's advantage to joining w/1 or 2 other guild in battleground to split it up.
I can only hope Guild Battlegrounds means many of these GvG whiners will quit the game. Since its 5% of players, they wouldn't be missed. GvG is the joke, the only ones who disagree have been invested for years and can't see their baby die. GE is boring? Lol, 10x more players doing it. GvG - be on at 8pm EST or don't bother; wow, excitement to the max! And all it brings is guild power for all that effort/investment? When your guild is at max level, what is the point? Guild ranking? Lol.
Some things I like about new proposal:
- rewards at the end, which does include power, but also rewards for contributors, if guild level is maxed still worth participating
- option to negotiate, I know many prefer to focus on goods and not attack, why shut them out of guild participation? (though I too hope each negotiation becomes more expensive). This may have side effects, increasing value of goods, making it harder to get a Terracotta Army in Iron Age, b/c less people want to give away that many goods?
- attrition, I like the idea of limiting attack (analogous to more expensive negotiations), but agree that reset to 0 at certain time reproduces GvG bane
- would like to see AF and later guild goods be useful (tho will miss the observatory and atomium that I removed after FE b/c they were useless), I'm guessing province buildings would use them up, tho older guilds have hundreds of thousands, millions. Could cost of these buildings be determined by points of all players in guild, similar to how GE power is accrued?
- leagues seem to address stronger guilds against stronger guilds, this doesn't happen in GE, just guilds w/same member number are grouped, this could be a big improvement over GE and GvG
I wouldn't worry about difficulty of picking up a new feature that is guild oriented. GvG's learning curve is steeper than any other feature, but that means the guild has to work together to figure it out, or at least introduce new comers. That's a good thing I think, so if Battlegrounds has more complexity than GE, go for it, and allow guilds to work together to handle the curve.
It does appear this feature will remove alliances, working with other guilds. Basically cutthroat. Unless there's advantage to joining w/1 or 2 other guild in battleground to split it up.
DeletedUser28727
I like the idea and would enjoy trying it as it goes forward. Here's an idea, in a nutshell, look into the board game Diplomacy. The way the battles are structured might be an interesting to try here.
Given a hex, each army in a bordering hex has a point of 1. an army attacks, and would get support from other armies on neighboring hexes. The attacked army would get support to defend from armies designated to do so. Dunno if it can work, but that part of the strategy in Diplomacy is a huge part of the appeal of the game.
Given a hex, each army in a bordering hex has a point of 1. an army attacks, and would get support from other armies on neighboring hexes. The attacked army would get support to defend from armies designated to do so. Dunno if it can work, but that part of the strategy in Diplomacy is a huge part of the appeal of the game.
DeletedUser32101
I was wondering if you have considered how to over come another "block" to greater GvG participation.
Most players have a City on several servers, Reset is a common time across all severs and therefore impossible for a player to participate at this the most crucial time in more than one world.
Maybe if attacks could only happen after 24 hours not at a set time (reset) each day.
Most players have a City on several servers, Reset is a common time across all severs and therefore impossible for a player to participate at this the most crucial time in more than one world.
Maybe if attacks could only happen after 24 hours not at a set time (reset) each day.
DeletedUser
I have a question - let's say my guild has an enemy guild, and I 'd like to fight them.
Being in an 8-10 guilds contest will probably keep us apart, and we won't be able to fight, after all, there are more than a hundred guilds on one server.
Are we going to play against the same server?
Can we choose adversaries? For now, if a guild decides to keep territory in GvG we could always attack them.
How will we be able to attack in BG the same guild?
I said that before, but for me is very important - do not lock the cycle of attrition - shielding after conquest on a 24-hour base, either split a day in two 12 -hours cycles, or three 8-hour cycles, let all timezones have an equal chance.
What about allies? Several guilds together? Can we cooperate?
Being in an 8-10 guilds contest will probably keep us apart, and we won't be able to fight, after all, there are more than a hundred guilds on one server.
Are we going to play against the same server?
Can we choose adversaries? For now, if a guild decides to keep territory in GvG we could always attack them.
How will we be able to attack in BG the same guild?
I said that before, but for me is very important - do not lock the cycle of attrition - shielding after conquest on a 24-hour base, either split a day in two 12 -hours cycles, or three 8-hour cycles, let all timezones have an equal chance.
What about allies? Several guilds together? Can we cooperate?
DeletedUser33529
Any new idea to enhance the game playing experience is exciting. However, I am personally a bit let down on Inno's idea to increase that 5% number of GvG fighters. Obviously the reason that number is so low is because of mobile players.
I have zero data to back up this assumption, but I'm still going to throw it out there... GvG fighters spend more diamonds than any other player in the game. A new world opens up, and I guarantee players are spending to take land. A huge war breaks out, guarantee players are spending diamonds on Carousels, healing troops, etc.
That being said, I'm disappointed that we aren't addressing real issues with the GvG:
- The lag is outrageous at recalc
- There are clear cheaters using scripts unbalancing the game
- No mobile
- As mentioned several times, there is no incentive to fight lower age maps since the prestige is so low
- Everyone has waited patiently for AF, OF, VF, and soon SAM GvG maps to open up and you aren't even considering this option because of a flawed GvG design? If newer ages weren't taken into account, it's a flawed design
The issue that bothers me the most is the clear cheating that has been massively reported in multiple worlds. It's impossible to relay a siege is .1 seconds considering it requires multiple clicks of the mouse. So, in summary, there is active cheating in the game but Inno wants to enhance GvG by adding new guild features? Come on, man...
I have zero data to back up this assumption, but I'm still going to throw it out there... GvG fighters spend more diamonds than any other player in the game. A new world opens up, and I guarantee players are spending to take land. A huge war breaks out, guarantee players are spending diamonds on Carousels, healing troops, etc.
That being said, I'm disappointed that we aren't addressing real issues with the GvG:
- The lag is outrageous at recalc
- There are clear cheaters using scripts unbalancing the game
- No mobile
- As mentioned several times, there is no incentive to fight lower age maps since the prestige is so low
- Everyone has waited patiently for AF, OF, VF, and soon SAM GvG maps to open up and you aren't even considering this option because of a flawed GvG design? If newer ages weren't taken into account, it's a flawed design
The issue that bothers me the most is the clear cheating that has been massively reported in multiple worlds. It's impossible to relay a siege is .1 seconds considering it requires multiple clicks of the mouse. So, in summary, there is active cheating in the game but Inno wants to enhance GvG by adding new guild features? Come on, man...
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