Sgt. Bothari
Member
20%/80% former to latter, just imho
There is a point that it becomes the proverbial dead horse however.
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When can we stop pretending GBG is balanced?
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There is a point that it becomes the proverbial dead horse however.
Jennie2019
New Member
But aren‘t we just sitting around having tea and biscuits with the top guilds just farming? They don’t compete.
Tony 85 the Generous
Well-Known Member
Having tea and biscuits until the season ends when we (the non-top guilds) hope to get a match up to either fight or farm.
Ebeondi Asi
Well-Known Member
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Savvy187
Member
Whatever is going on with the building slots is making things easier for the top guilds for some reason? The number 1 guild on our server starts surrounded by sectors with plenty of building slots, meanwhile, our guild which is usually near the bottom in DL, has 1 building slot on doorstep and no sectors with 3 building slots anywhere in sight. The map we are looking at in Dl this season makes it impossible for our guild to get attrition free hits, meanwhile, the top guild is drowning in attrition free fights. I m curious what Inno is hoping to achieve by handicapping weak guilds while giving top guilds a free ride?
RazorbackPirate
Well-Known Member
On any given province, the number of building slots change with each round. Luck of the draw.
Tony 85 the Generous
Well-Known Member
I was wondering about that. They were fixed (I made a map) until they were reduced. Seems like two changes were made at once (less spots and move them around).
The strong guilds can more easily over come the lack of buildigns spots, thereby a secondary (or tertiary) effect of the new slot arrangement has increased the gap between the ability of the "new diamond league" guilds to compete with the established (aka stronger) guilds.
RazorbackPirate
Well-Known Member
Except there was no change. Had there been one, Inno would have announced it.
Ebeondi Asi
Well-Known Member
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Savvy187
Member
I am well aware of how buildings are created, nowhere did I say the buildings were free. Learn to read before responding please.
saknika
Active Member
At this point I really don't think GBG is what Inno intended. I feel like they were trying to create something of a level playing field so all guilds that wanted to participate, could; but that's really not the case. Either you're the guild that's allied with someone and dominating, or you get to do almost nothing for two weeks of game play. At least that has been my main experience for the majority of the year and change that this feature has been out. It's honestly becoming something of a frustration and disappointment when you're the team that tries to make an alliance, but other teams are already paired up and say no, because you've just made it to diamond league and they've been there for a while and worked together a lot (or whatever the reason happens to be).
My guild has steadily been growing stronger, and is working hard to at least be a thorn in the side of other guilds, but there's only so far morale can take you before players start getting tired of getting nowhere fast. In the beginning I was 100% of the mindset that any guild could work hard and get powerful and take on any other guild, but time has proven me quite wrong in that regard. Yes, we are growing stronger, but that's honestly not saying much if no one will work with you because 2 vs 1 is still a slaughter. You may say it's 2 vs 6 because the two guilds that team up have six others in the league to contend with, but unless those six teams can either work together or find a way to swap as effectively, it really does just become a series of 2 vs 1. I think many will echo that feeling (and maybe already have, I didn't read through 15 pages of chatter before writing this).
The real question is how to balance things back out to be more as what I figure Inno intended. It's all well and good to come here to complain that something feels unfair, but what use is it if you don't have an idea on how to maybe better it? In my eyes the LP system needs to be more refined, and those that are constantly taking 1st place in a given league should be paired together more consistently. And those that aren't can work with teams that maybe are more their strength. Obviously this will switch up from time to time because you'll see folks floating around within that system, but it might help to break up being constantly stuck with the same teams that always dominate so that you get nowhere. Similarly, perhaps once teams end up in a league based on LP, they could then be sorted into who they're facing based on guild rank. That still comes with the issue though of trying to not have the same teams facing each other all the time, but it could possibly introduce better competition. Or perhaps we need to bring total guild membership into account. Another idea would be to perhaps cap the number of buildings you're allowed to have built at any one time. Sure, you might have 12 building slots available to you, but if you can only plant 10 total buildings then you have to get pickier. That could possibly limit the use of SCs which would actually force players to gain attrition (and thus perhaps slow them down). Or, maybe just give every sector one build slot, and that will limit the number of buildings naturally because now you likely can only get up to 3 SCs connected. It'd make traps more effective too, since now a guild wouldn't be able to 100% negate their effect.
Regardless of what is done, something really does need to help bring some balance back into it so that guilds can better compete instead of routinely ending up in either the position where they are the top, or the position where they are pinned down indefinitely based solely on if they can partner with another guild successfully.
My guild has steadily been growing stronger, and is working hard to at least be a thorn in the side of other guilds, but there's only so far morale can take you before players start getting tired of getting nowhere fast. In the beginning I was 100% of the mindset that any guild could work hard and get powerful and take on any other guild, but time has proven me quite wrong in that regard. Yes, we are growing stronger, but that's honestly not saying much if no one will work with you because 2 vs 1 is still a slaughter. You may say it's 2 vs 6 because the two guilds that team up have six others in the league to contend with, but unless those six teams can either work together or find a way to swap as effectively, it really does just become a series of 2 vs 1. I think many will echo that feeling (and maybe already have, I didn't read through 15 pages of chatter before writing this).
The real question is how to balance things back out to be more as what I figure Inno intended. It's all well and good to come here to complain that something feels unfair, but what use is it if you don't have an idea on how to maybe better it? In my eyes the LP system needs to be more refined, and those that are constantly taking 1st place in a given league should be paired together more consistently. And those that aren't can work with teams that maybe are more their strength. Obviously this will switch up from time to time because you'll see folks floating around within that system, but it might help to break up being constantly stuck with the same teams that always dominate so that you get nowhere. Similarly, perhaps once teams end up in a league based on LP, they could then be sorted into who they're facing based on guild rank. That still comes with the issue though of trying to not have the same teams facing each other all the time, but it could possibly introduce better competition. Or perhaps we need to bring total guild membership into account. Another idea would be to perhaps cap the number of buildings you're allowed to have built at any one time. Sure, you might have 12 building slots available to you, but if you can only plant 10 total buildings then you have to get pickier. That could possibly limit the use of SCs which would actually force players to gain attrition (and thus perhaps slow them down). Or, maybe just give every sector one build slot, and that will limit the number of buildings naturally because now you likely can only get up to 3 SCs connected. It'd make traps more effective too, since now a guild wouldn't be able to 100% negate their effect.
Regardless of what is done, something really does need to help bring some balance back into it so that guilds can better compete instead of routinely ending up in either the position where they are the top, or the position where they are pinned down indefinitely based solely on if they can partner with another guild successfully.
Ebeondi Asi
Well-Known Member
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icarusethan
Active Member
Everything people said above can be fixed by randomly pick guild among all servers instead of world-specific just like GE, right?
DeletedUser
Put the top guilds from both Diamond winners into an Octagon , no buildings , no farming , Guild vs Guild. Lets see how long the farming lasts after that .
icarusethan
Active Member
its quite easy to farm without building sir, that's what a lot of guilds doing on gvg map before they changed the npc tiles unit situation.
Kranyar the Mysterious
Well-Known Member
Except according to Inno that isn't happening because GBG happens in real time, and there isn't a real time connection between servers. I believe it was stated that GE data is updated every few minutes, and is a lot less data than GBG. Can't find the source now, but that is what I remembered.
icarusethan
Active Member
Then GBG gonna stay the same way without a total overhaul. Big guild works together, then weak guilds have to work with them or get stuffed. No way around
Kranyar the Mysterious
Well-Known Member
Probably true, though Inno does have it in their power to make things potentially a bit easier for the little guy by changing some minor things.
Just changing the number of slots available on sectors, with the outside (less valuable) sectors having more slots available, with less available as you more to the more valuable center would change the dynamic a bit. Not enough to stop guilds from cooperating, but likely enough to allow those that care enough to be able to at least get off the rim occasionally.
Tony 85 the Generous
Well-Known Member
This is well said and mostly a different writing of the same items many has said.
There are many here that have commented but not provided any ideas as a pathforward or perhaps out of this situation. @saknika has hit on many of the same symptoms, but what are the possible root causes. Once you find the root cause then you can find possible solutions.
This is how the surrent LP system works. What you have said is no difference than the current syste,. The current LP system is based on win-to-advance. Instead of whether you are strong enough or not you can be competitive. Again, 'competitive' does not equal 'winning'. Competitive means not being on the short end of:
So what are the root causes making GBG unbalanced, especially in the diamond and platinum leagues?
I have offered mine. First, the ability to ally. Second, win-to-advance.
There are simple solutions to the first.
Option A. Go cross world on the guilds, similar to GE.
Option B. (not mutually exclusive with A) Do not list the guild names until GBG closes. Show the leaderboard with XXXXXX for the other guild names until GBG close.
Solutions to the second are more involved as you would need to determine ability, strength, or might in GBG. Similar to MMR but at a guild level and based on the guilds possible ability to "put on a good showing" in GBG.
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icarusethan
Active Member
so you assume players cant just tell who they are playing alongside by talking to people in other guilds? also, player points increase as he does the fighting so its quite easy to figure out which guild is on the map even you cover their names