50% less GE Diamonds? More Like 75-90% (3yr Data Sheet)

[La Marchessa]

Well, my only "dealings" as you put it would be for this video, and I apologize in advance for the bad audio The only sorta payment I got was an InnoGames branded lanyard and ball cap, but if I was smart I would have chosen Innopolis, their board game, because some day I want a copy of it. I've also competed in and won two forum contests:

• The "All I Want For Christmas" contest in December of 2019, where I won 100 FP
• The "March Forum Contest" in March of 2020, where I won 100 goods.
• (unrelated side note - I wish we had more contests. They were fun!)

Other than the above mentioned ways, I have not received any in-game or real-world items, compensation, etc. during my time playing the game. I do not work for InnoGames, never have, and probably never will, as I'm not in the business of game development (though some day I do want to develop an indie game, but that's besides the point; it wouldn't be with Inno).

I have contacted/been contacted by forum moderators plenty of times, but not for any reason other than where I may have infringed on some forum rules, or to clarify a statement I made in a thread (such as mentioning to a player a private dispute on the beta forums that was taken as a mention of a larger problem on beta - it was resolved rather quickly). I've even had moderators reach out to me asking for tips/tricks/help for their gameplay. I think it is an important distinction to note that the majority of the forum staff isn't paid wages by Inno - it's a volunteer position and iirc, you get paid a small amount of diamonds as compensation. From what I've heard/picked up on, only the (Co-)Community Manager(s) are given "insider" info on upcoming features, ex. lists of daily specials for events, if that at all. Much of it is rumor/they said.

The only person that I have regular contact that does seem to work for InnoGames is Juber, the Community Manager of the Beta forums. He (I believe, sorry if I got the pronouns wrong) is a regular member of a [chat service platform] server run by MooingCat. I'm redacting the name out of an abundance of caution because we aren't really supposed to post external links on the forums, and I don't want this post to get removed for transparency's sake. Suffice to say, an online chat service. While our paths cross there once in a while, it's only in the sense of game discussion or clarification on announcements/phrasing in game, nothing towards info about the game. Similarly, Juber comments on my videos once in a while, but he maintains the same level of clarification and has never asked me to change anything.

Unfortunately, I do not *yet* have a Patreon, but it is something that I am still considering (or maybe a YouTube Channel Membership program - I haven't figured it out entirely). The only financial gain I have gotten from my content over the past >4 years is the small pittance from YouTube's ad revenue that I have recently been able to access as I was approved for their partner program only about a week and a half ago - woohoo! It's still very much unprofitable though for me and is something I do for fun, and something I will stop doing if I ever stop having fun with it.

With the above stated, I have always represented my own opinions in my content, and will continue to do so. For example, I have repeatedly turned down sponsorships/affiliate programs from a specific company that is not related to InnoGames, MTG, or any FoE-related party, since that sponsor is a company that is currently not on great terms with the US (no, not that one, the other one). I'm not naming them because that is irrelevant.

If I ever do accept any sort of sponsorship or compensation, I will of course disclose that during the video, and make it clear what are the talking points I have taken as part of the sponsorship, and what are my own opinions. However, I will not be doing this because the FTC requires it, but rather that it is what I believe the right thing to do morally to maintain transparency and trust with my audience. I will never accept sponsorships from companies that do not align with my opinions or say something I believe is false, even if compensation is offered. As I said earlier, my work is not profitable, and it's not something I'm doing for money or recognition, it's something I'm doing because I enjoy it.


TL;DR:
All my opinions are my own and are in no way influenced by or beholden to InnoGames GmbH, MTG, or any other party/person. However, should InnoGames choose to send me the Innopolis game, I would be happy to do an unboxing/full review of it. Please. I want it. Contact me. This isn't really related, but hey. Gotta ask somewhere!

I hope this answers your question, and if you would like me to clarify any of your statements, please let me know. This took me like 30 minutes to type up so hope it was worth it

This is really great UBER... honestly you were so happy about the diamond nerf (I KID, I KID) that I really did wonder whether you were a stealth marketing tool of the FOE Deep State ; ) I thought your graphics were too impressive as well to be from an independent creator. LOL take it as a complement. I really appreciate you coming on and just being a supporter of transparency as well as free speech (as in me putting the question to you). I wish you a lot of success and that you can get your paws on that Innopolis game! Forge on amigo! I'll be watching.

PS - Please check my figures in my first post in this thread - the diamond nerf was way more than 50% for a steady player that completed 4 levels GE every week for years. Perhaps modify your messaging on that? something to consider.

 

[UBERhelp1]

This is really great UBER... honestly you were so happy about the diamond nerf (I KID, I KID) that I really did wonder whether you were a stealth marketing tool of the FOE Deep State ; ) I thought your graphics were too impressive as well to be from an independent creator. LOL take it as a complement. I really appreciate you coming on and just being a supporter of transparency as well as free speech (as in me asking for your reply). I wish you a lot of success and that you can get your paws on that Innopolis game! Forge on amigo! I'll be watching.

PS - Please check my figures in my first post in this thread - the diamond nerf was way more than 50% for a steady player that completed 4 levels GE every week for years. Perhaps modify your messaging on that? something to consider.

I'm not changing my figures - it's ~50%. ~8200 diamonds/week down to ~4200 diamonds per week. If anything, I should update them to be about 51%. If you do the math, you have a 30% chance, three times, at winning 90 diamonds. 3 x 0.3 x 90 = an average of 81 diamonds/week, and I stand by that number. For example, I just hit 90 diamonds on my main this week. That doesn't mean I'm always going to be hitting 90s. Over time, the number of won diamonds should even out.

I appreciate the thoughts on the graphics - it's something I've worked a lot on. Probably a little bit *too* much, as these days I'm rushing to get videos out in time

 

[La Marchessa]

I'm not changing my figures - it's ~50%. ~8200 diamonds/week down to ~4200 diamonds per week. If anything, I should update them to be about 51%. If you do the math, you have a 30% chance, three times, at winning 90 diamonds. 3 x 0.3 x 90 = an average of 81 diamonds/week, and I stand by that number. For example, I just hit 90 diamonds on my main this week. That doesn't mean I'm always going to be hitting 90s. Over time, the number of won diamonds should even out.

I appreciate the thoughts on the graphics - it's something I've worked a lot on. Probably a little bit *too* much, as these days I'm rushing to get videos out in time

But it simply does not add up when you look at results. People are getting zero diamonds from cities that produced diamonds in GE every single week for years. The inputs must be off, because 50% is definitely not the loss - it is far far more. I am speaking of GE as a whole, not just Level 4. Are you?

I will see if I can find someone more proficient at data analysis to put across my point, though I thought that my raw data proved the point pretty obviously.

 

[Emberguard]

It used to be 1.2 was the figure...I suppose that has been rolled back too...

It was a straight 1% at time of introduction (2013)

 

[UBERhelp1]

And towards the topic of positivity/negativity to changes/buffs/nerfs, I'm still working on a balance between my thoughts and the facts. I think many people do like to hear my thoughts, and I try to express them. However, as I'm in a position where some players may formulate their entire opinion on a feature based on what I say, I have to be more cautious. I don't necessarily want players agreeing with my opinions - I want them to go out, play the game, and form their own opinions.

I also am generally cynical of new changes, but over time can see the reasoning behind them. In terms of monetization, I have done a lot of research (actually for a canceled video) on the topic, and have thought about how I would monetize FoE if I was Inno. I might not make the same choices, but can see why they made the choices they have.

I find highly negative content to be incredibly repetitive and boring. I don't want to edit the same video of me being angry twenty times. I'd much rather dive into the changes, and how to make the most of what we have, and how to offset any losses or benefit from any new strategies. I also feel responsible for some quantity of negativity as a result of players internalizing my words. Again, I want players to form their own opinions, and try to look at why the changes are bad, and why the changes were made. We gain nothing from negative feedback, but thoughtful criticism backed by data is what will be listened to.

- - -

In terms of the diamond odds, set up a spreadsheet. Track your diamond rewards after the nerf, and if you aren't averaging some diamonds every couple of months, then maybe that's something to bring up. But not after the first week. After 1 week, you only have about a 66% chance of winning diamonds, after 2 weeks, about 90%. But 1 in 10 players still won't have won any. After a four weeks, 98.6%, but in a game with thousands of active players, that could be tens of thousands of players who haven't gotten diamonds yet. We can't draw conclusions from players posting on the forums. Outside of forum regulars, generally those giving feedback are those who have negative feedback. No player is coming to the forums to say, "I got 90 diamonds, I wasn't expecting this," but many are posting "I got no diamonds, I wasn't expecting this." That can either be one of two things:

• Players are not receiving diamonds at the correct rate
• Players who are not getting diamonds are posting, and those who get diamonds aren't posting because they are receiving what they expected

Until we track the data, we can't know for sure which of those possibilities it is. Simply put - set up a spreadsheet. For each week, mark down how many diamonds you get each week. You should average about 81 diamonds/week after a while.

 

[Emberguard]

It used to be 1.2 was the figure...I suppose that has been rolled back too...

It was a straight 1% at time of introduction (2013)

For reference

https://forum.en.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/analysing-the-value-of-the-easter-event-wishing-well.14826/

 

[DreadfulCadillac]

I got no diamonds from GE4 this week, but last week I got 90 diamonds twice (once on two different encounters)

 

[La Marchessa]

I got no diamonds from GE4 this week, but last week I got 90 diamonds twice (once on two different encounters)

I did get diamonds 3 times this week - a measly 270 pfffft that's near the best week you can have now, and its about 65% below an average week of 650 diamonds from Before- BD and AD - Before Diamonds and After Diamonds.

I did finish to the end Level 5 just now. Yep. Not impressed with the prizes. I wanted to finish it first in one of my guilds so I raced through, but it's not compelling to me at all.

Inno should make one of the spiffed up things like SSW produce diamonds occasionally. At least people would go for it as a novelty item.

 

[UBERhelp1]

Uh... the average weekly diamonds from GE is 81, the previous was 162, and you got 270. What exactly are you complaining about, and where exactly did you get this 650/week number?

 

[La Marchessa]

Uh... the average weekly diamonds from GE is 81, the previous was 162, and you got 270. What exactly are you complaining about, and where exactly did you get this 650/week number?

Honestly, based on this query, I have to guess you have not really taken a look at my data. It clearly shows that over three years, my average diamonds per week in five cities in GE were about 650-700 with highs at 1150 in a week and the lowest of the low at around 350.

Now with even an extra city (added in a few months ago) I don't make anywhere near what my average used to be doing exactly the same thing.
It's pretty simple to understand that making 270 weekly diamonds total, in all my worlds verses at least 650 weekly diamonds is a LOT less - therefore a complaint that is not only justifiable but worth repeating.

Let's cut your income by 30-80% - would you be complaining? lol

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

Uh... the average weekly diamonds from GE is 81, the previous was 162, and you got 270. What exactly are you complaining about, and where exactly did you get this 650/week number?

The average weekly Diamonds from GE is not 81, that is only what probability says you should get. There is no data (outside of Inno's numbers, which we don't see) to support any particular number as "average". Same with the 162 stated as the previous average, there is no data to back that up as anything but a raw probability, yet you and others state it as if it were an incontrovertible fact.

 

[La Marchessa]

The average weekly Diamonds from GE is not 81, that is only what probability says you should get. There is no data (outside of Inno's numbers, which we don't see) to support any particular number as "average". Same with the 162 stated as the previous average, there is no data to back that up as anything but a raw probability, yet you and others state it as if it were an incontrovertible fact.

Exactly - thank you.
There is now a data set to support finding an average - 3 years, five/six cities, consistent play weekly.
And we do get to see it.

Anyone who has played with me in game and in RL knows me and what I do, I played GE every single week to the end of the 4th level in 5-6 cities. It is not that big a deal to make a simple notation on a word doc when I'd win diamonds. I also used to keep a Diamond Counts Thread with other players on A world - on that thread I tracked every diamond I made from day 1 in that city, to see how long it took and how many wells it took for a diamond farm to be profitable. It got to be a habit to keep data noted down and I kept it consistently over time. I never actually thought I'd need to use it beyond my own record keeping or even share it, but I'm glad I did it.
: )

I'm getting the data set inputted into a program so it can be more useful for us. cheers and stay tuned. : )

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Exactly - thank you.
There is now a data set to support finding an average - 3 years, five/six cities, consistent play weekly.
And we do get to see it.

Anyone who has played with me in game and in RL knows me and what I do, I played GE every single week to the end of the 4th level in 5-6 cities. It is not that big a deal to make a simple notation on a word doc when I'd win diamonds. I also used to keep a Diamond Counts Thread with other players on A world - on that thread I tracked every diamond I made from day 1 in that city, to see how long it took and how many wells it took for a diamond farm to be profitable. It got to be a habit to keep data noted down and I kept it consistently over time. I never actually thought I'd need to use it beyond my own record keeping or even share it, but I'm glad I did it.
: )

I'm getting the data set inputted into a program so it can be more useful for us. cheers and stay tuned. : )

Good! I was hoping that you would do this. I'm very interested in what your average diamond collection was on a per week, per city basis. Previously, you reported that it was 650-700. It would be helpful to have that range narrowed down to a precise amount.

 

[Emberguard]

@La Marchessa is your list of diamonds mixing multiple worlds together?

I'm looking over the old rewards from Guild Expedition.... your gathered information doesn't match up the amounts for the corresponding encounters unless you've jumbled together multiple worlds

 

[La Marchessa]

@La Marchessa is your list of diamonds mixing multiple worlds together?

I'm looking over the old rewards from Guild Expedition.... your gathered information doesn't match up the amounts for the corresponding encounters unless you've jumbled together multiple worlds

Yep all worlds are jumbled as that is how they are played. Randomized rewards notated as they occurred as I played five different cities, very systematically, rotating through each city usually twice a day at least.
1) For example on my first day of play I might have played 8 encounters in all five worlds in the morning and afternoon, but if I got lucky on extra turns I might play 12 or more encounters at once in one city mixed in with only 8 encounters in a couple of cities but 12 or more in others. So I might win a couple of 10s in the morning and not win again until I hit a 100 on level 3 a day later, but still hit a 10 at a lower level in another city. Eventually in only the last couple of months I finished my medal expansions in all but one city, and I play through a single city longer using medals.
2) It wasn't until a few months in at the beginning I started notating the cities which you can see by the small f, g, j, t, a notations, and you'll see when b started getting added in just a few months ago.
3) You'll see I started on dates that would be a Tuesday or later because I'm in New Zealand and your Monday is my Tuesday.
4) I did have a few stray notes - for awhile I kept track of how many total diamonds I had, sometimes I added up totals either at the end or as I went, once in awhile only at the very beginning I noted a few FP wins or rogue wins (which will not be included of course), I noted at times when my weekly take from all cities was a record high or low, sometimes I noted what was happening in the game - you'll see the advent of the Castle System noted for example. Or when my special avatar was offered and I purchased it in all five cities, thus spending a lot, etc... I noted when I was spending a lot on the Egyptian settlement play. It will be nice to have all those notes taken out of the pure data.

Notation for the most part became systematic for the majority of the record keeping after about the first 4 months until present. I'll probably have to figure out what to do for the first few weeks that didn't have city notations on them, and for the last few months in which a sixth city "b" was added in.

My data guy is a physics teacher and data analyst for a nearby school who is doing the entering and will do the sorting, so I'm confident we'll get some solid results.

 

[La Marchessa]

still inputting data - not even halfway done yet.

 

[La Marchessa]

Still inputting! can't believe how long data management takes, wow

 

[Emyrs the Kind]

Diamonds were the Only real reason to do GE . Now it is just usless Junk / Wjop needs more faces of the Anchients?

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Diamonds were the Only real reason to do GE . Now it is just usless Junk / Wjop needs more faces of the Anchients?

It's a matter of perspective. When I was a teen, getting a fill-up at a gas station involved having an attendant pump the gas, check the oil and the tires. Unless they live in NJ or OR, today's teens pump their own gas. The times have changed, people adapt. The next new group of FOE players will have no experience with a GE that awarded, on average 162 diamonds. Instead, they will gladly build their attack boosts up to a point where they can handle GE60 and will be happy winning, on average, 81 diamonds. A few current players may hold a grudge but the majority will shrug it off (if they haven't done so already).

 

[Pericles the Lion]

You mean build up their defense after needing to build up their attack stats for a year or two to get through the first 4 levels. GE5 is only there to remove about 500k of goods per top guild per season which will make goods much harder to come by and harm every other aspect of the game that requires a lot of goods. GbG , GVG in particular. That’s three sections of the game that will be hosed in about 4 months.

Before you get too upset at least have the correct numbers. The cost to unlock level 5 per SAJM player is 192 of each good. This makes the maximum cost to unlock 76,800 goods (for a hypothetical guild comprised of 80 SAJM players).