2000 Aborted quest limit per day

[Agent327]

Two thoughts:
1) Sure Inno is ALOWED to change the game, as I am sure they have some legal jumbo-jumbo language buried in a terms of service somewhere. However, thats not how the real world works folks, or every insurance policy would be set up the same way, with exclusions being able to change from day to day. Public just would it sit and accept that way of working. There has to be trust to a business relationship.

It is not buried anywhere. It is in the terms and conditions you accepted when you registered for an account.

Don't know where you are from, but insurance policies are set up that way. Company can change them and you can either accept, or go look for another.

 

[Emberguard]

No
In pretty much every civilized country, the owner of a forum is responsible for the content that is displayed, regardless of who actually wrote it. That's exacly why moderation is so important, otherwise it would not be cared about that much. So they legally have to be aware of it in some way. If it were actually considered an exploit it would have been adressed right away, years ago. Pretending that Inno was unaware of HQS being discussed on that forum is at best dishonest. It also implies that Inno staff are very dumb which I don't believe they are to that extent.

Why would we assume they could be unaware of one of the main playstyle which has been used in their game for about a decade ?

If Inno has to be responsible for every comment made by a player in regards to it being factually correct and aligning with Innos offical views on everything, then you wouldn’t have a forum. Because then you‘d never be able to post anything, only read official statements from Inno employees

 

[Algona]

instead of attacking my post

Wrong. Again. For the third and fourth times in a day.

There is a straightforward way to avoid having your posts 'attacked'.

Quit posting wrong things.

Spoiler

The four ways you were wrong:

Attributing a video to an INNO run wiki.

Stating the mod was not doing their job by pointing out the mistaken attribution.

Thinking the mod telling you the post was wrong is an attack on the post.

Thinking there is something wrong with 'attacking' a post.

Forum rules are specific. No personal attacks. Tearing a post to shreds for misinformation or faulty logic or just for being plain wrong is well within the rules of the forum.

But Agent didn't tear your post to shreds they simply stated you were wrong on one thing you said and invited you to demonstrate otherwise. There's no attack there.

It also implies that Inno staff are very dumb which I don't believe they are to that extent.

I agree INNO staff isn't dumb. But there is a long history of INNO making design mistakes and stupid, err, I mean, easily avoidable QA mistakes.

Spoiler

This need for this particular change is due to a long list of design mistakes stretching back to the orignal design of RQs, includes QA mistakes (the accidental 2 second loop delay, not releasing the changes on time as Announced) and two whole new types of mistake:

Not recognizing the problem for years. Players have been discussing and implementing Infinite CFs since at least 2017. INNO normally takes care of botched design and bugs much quicker.

Worse, INNO still has not clearly explained to the player base why they are making this change. This is the first major nerf / fix / change in the game that they did not clearly explain.

An aside here. Folks would still be mad about any change to RQs, because folks always get upset by change. Not knowing that the change was being implemented and not stating why change is needed are two more reasons for players being upset.

thats not how the real world works folks

Dunno what reality you live in but my reality has a 25 year history of playing OL games with the game producers making constant changes, rebalances, fixes, nerfs to the games.

----------

A request, likely due to me not quite understanding poster intentions at this point.

Spoiler

A couple of posters have seemed to imply that it's wrong for INNO having a player written Guide on infinite CF (note well infinite CF never has been and even in light of the Abort limit still not against the riles of the game, just using it without limit.) in this forum.

This forum has a history of seeing a particular curse come to fulfillment:

Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

My favorite example was years back folk used to get upset about the Bad 3 Event Quests (scout a Province, acquire a Province research a Tech). So INNO gave is what we wanted. But because we players (I was one of them asking for the change) didn't specify exactly what we wanted, we got alternate Quests requiring paying hundreds of Goods. Which while trivial now, was a real burden back then. So naturally a lot of us were upset about getting what we wished for. Me? I took it to heart and quit asking INNO to change the game.

Anyway, if your contention is that INNO is doing something wrong by having Guides on this forum a possible solution would be INNO get rid of Guides on this forum.

I dunno quite what you want from INNO but I for one really like having Guides on the forum.

Since those Guides are vetted by posters who play the game and insist upon accuracy, we know those Guides are accurate.

It's a lot easier to point a player to a Guide then type up an answer. Or not being able to answer a question because the answer might be considered a Guide.

Do you really want mods judging whether answering a question is a rules violation? I'd bet they wouldn't like that job either.

Think about the ramifications of what you are saying folks, because otherwise you might just get what you wished for.

 

[Ocirasai]

If Inno has to be responsible for every comment made by a player in regards to it being factually correct and aligning with Innos offical views on everything, then you wouldn’t have a forum. Because then you‘d never be able to post anything, only read official statements from Inno employees

There is an inherent responsibility for a company to either clearly state that the views posted by their users in a company-owned entity are their users' views only and do not represent the views of the company or its policies, or to police those comments so that information that the company deems to be correct and valid is the only information made available. If the former is present in any agreement I signed when setting up my forum login, I missed it and I apologize. However, if it not present, which the role of active moderators such as yourself would imply, then the latter falls on you and Inno to uphold.

Communication has been a huge gaping hole for this and previous issues which I think is part of the problem that a lot of us have with the change.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

There is an inherent responsibility for a company to either clearly state that the views posted by their users in a company-owned entity are their users' views only and do not represent the views of the company or its policies, or to police those comments so that information that the company deems to be correct and valid is the only information made available. If the former is present in any agreement I signed when setting up my forum login, I missed it and I apologize. However, if it not present, which the role of active moderators such as yourself would imply, then the latter falls on you and Inno to uphold.

Communication has been a huge gaping hole for this and previous issues which I think is part of the problem that a lot of us have with the change.

Oh, good grief! I was not going to post again on this thread, but you people are being absolutely ridiculous and living in some fantasy world. Have you never participated in an online forum before? Because that is the only logical reason that you would believe such tripe. Well, welcome to the internet!

First, every official Announcement is clearly marked as such, and is even in a special sub-forum. Anything not in those special sub-forums and/or not clearly identified as an official Announcement is not to be viewed as such. Period.

Second, let me assure you that any player forum will have content that does not reflect the views/facts/intentions/plans of the game owners/designers/programmers/developers. And if such posts were to be edited/deleted when they contained anything the company deemed wrong or misleading or in any way opposed to their views or intents, this entire thread would not exist. Yet here we are on page 14 and over 250 posts. Very few of which would pass your "valid is the only information made available" test. Oppose the change if you must, but at least post intelligent objections and quit trying to attack the Forum process or its moderators. It just makes you look...less than smart.

 

[Tony 85 the Generous]

In pretty much every civilized country, the owner of a forum is responsible for the content that is displayed, regardless of who actually wrote it. That's exacly why moderation is so important, otherwise it would not be cared about that much. So they legally have to be aware of it in some way. If it were actually considered an exploit it would have been adressed right away, years ago. Pretending that Inno was unaware of HQS being discussed on that forum is at best dishonest. It also implies that Inno staff are very dumb which I don't believe they are to that extent.

The above response is only included as it is the start of the topic.

Oh, good grief! I was not going to post again on this thread, but you people are being absolutely ridiculous and living in some fantasy world. Have you never participated in an online forum before? Because that is the only logical reason that you would believe such tripe. Well, welcome to the internet!

There are legal ramifications to a moderated forum which goes beyond the ToS written by the host. Both for the host and the moderators. Not all forums are or must be moderated. If a forum is moderated then there are legal ramifications (such as the ability to bring ligitgation aginst the host). This is why I no longer participate in a forum as a moderator. As this forum appears to be hosted in the US (based on the web address) and appears to be moderated, then there are federal legal statutes that govern this forum beyond the ToS that we all "agreed" to.

 

[lemur]

This cap is one of a number of communication missteps recently. That is coincides with new, large, outside investments is troubling. I fear we are no longer dealing with the Inno we're used to, I fear people who had no involvement with the success of the game, now want to monetize their investment.

To what are you exactly referring to here? Please share URLs that would explain what changed with InnoGames.

 

[Agent327]

As this forum appears to be hosted in the US (based on the web address) and appears to be moderated

I am really curious how you come to that conclusion.

This forum's domain is .com. That does not tell you anything about where it is hosted. In order to find out you need to look it up and when you do (if you know how) you will find out that the servers this forum is on, are in Germany.

Still, nice of you to say it appears to be moderated. I am sure many will think different *










* I am not in the habit of putting in smilies, but in this case just to make sure it is clear that at some very rare moments I do have some sense of humor.

 

[Algona]

To what are you exactly referring to here? Please share URLs that would explain what changed with InnoGames.

It's against forum rules to provide a link. Search for who owns INNOGames or for some details on the acquisition, search for MTG increases ownership of INNOGames.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

There are legal ramifications to a moderated forum which goes beyond the ToS written by the host. Both for the host and the moderators. Not all forums are or must be moderated. If a forum is moderated then there are legal ramifications (such as the ability to bring ligitgation aginst the host). This is why I no longer participate in a forum as a moderator. As this forum appears to be hosted in the US (based on the web address) and appears to be moderated, then there are federal legal statutes that govern this forum beyond the ToS that we all "agreed" to.

Unless you're claiming that federal law requires companies hosting game forums to edit out all content by players that is "unofficial" or incorrect, then this comment is totally irrelevant. Take your fake law degree elsewhere.

The fact is that the only information we have from Inno on this is what they have officially posted. Presumably that includes the replies from support that have been shared here. None of it mentions anything about bots or clickers or even cheating per se. All they've referred to is "exploits". While everyone is free to interpret that however they wish to in their own minds, posting anything other than simply "exploits" as the target of Inno's action is just misinformation that does not contribute positively to the conversation.

 

[hmmmmh stalker]

Here is my reasoning against this abort limits.

Assuming Inno wants more players to spend diamonds in the game, in GbG, what kind of players are more likely to spend diamond? Fighters or negotiators? IMO, it would be negotiators. Now, with this limitation, the players who were willing to spend time doing loops to collect goods can no longer do as many negotiations as they used to, which can result in much less spending of diamonds in GbG. Also, because of this, it will re-enforce the problem in GbG that only big guilds can control the map, as small guilds tend to negotiate more if they need to get out on the map.

Many others have already proposed a better solution: randomizing quests, to tackle the bot problem.

 

[lemur]

It's against forum rules to provide a link.

Oh, I suppose you're referring to these continually changing rules — which include this:

"Links to or discussions of third party apps or other sites are not allowed."​

There's also this gem:

"InnoGames reserves the right to remove any thread for any reason."​

LOL !!

 

[-Hercules-]

I'd recommend locking this topic at this point. No further material discussion will come from this. I've adapted my playstyle to maximize my aborts. Now I hit the limit in 3 hours instead of 1 hour. The time will vary as its dependent on having spots to take. On a side note, my wife is happy that I sit and actually watch a movie with her instead of clicking on the phone or laptop for fake internet points.

 

[Tony 85 the Generous]

Unless you're claiming that federal law requires companies hosting game forums to edit out all content by players that is "unofficial" or incorrect, then this comment is totally irrelevant.

I am not. That was not included in the previous statement. I am only pointing out there are laws in the US that apply to moderated forums hosted in the US. If a forum is moderated then the host is taking active responsibility for the content on the site. Being wrong, being stupid, and being a bad driver are still not against the law. I can only speak to the US laws, which only apply to servers and/or companies based in the US (must have one or the other). The laws would not extend to a company with no presense in the US and having no forum server based in the US. Long story short (or the way it was summarized to me by the lawyers), the laws on moderated forums allow other laws previously applicable to paper publication, spoken word, and televised content to be applied to the content of moderated forums.
Since this forum server is not in the US and based on a quick search does not appear to have a physical presence in the US, the above does not apply to this server and host. If Gemany has the same laws as the US, that is another story. In summary, a word to those who may think about becoming a forum moderator, check the laws and liablilty first (especially in the US).

 

[Boogiewoogie657]

you will find out that the servers this forum is on, are in Germany.

which is even more strict than the US, since they have even special laws to make forum hosts liable for their content. So what would be your point exactly to go off topic even further ?

My point was just that the idea of INNO not being aware of HQS being discussed around is ridiculous on many levels. Also it was firstly intended as an answer to the one asserting Inno does not HAVE to know about the content posted on their official forum, false assertion which was aimed at the HQS guide being on the forum for ages, one of the main playstyle used on FoE now.

This has been deviating way out of utility heading towards sterility at full-speed.

I am surprised to read moderators splitting hears, borderline trolling while deviating from the subject with a passion. You guys are making what was first an intelligent discussion into something that is not worth my attention, heading out.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

I am not. That was not included in the previous statement. I am only pointing out there are laws in the US that apply to moderated forums hosted in the US. If a forum is moderated then the host is taking active responsibility for the content on the site. Being wrong, being stupid, and being a bad driver are still not against the law. I can only speak to the US laws, which only apply to servers and/or companies based in the US (must have one or the other). The laws would not extend to a company with no presense in the US and having no forum server based in the US. Long story short (or the way it was summarized to me by the lawyers), the laws on moderated forums allow other laws previously applicable to paper publication, spoken word, and televised content to be applied to the content of moderated forums.
Since this forum server is not in the US and based on a quick search does not appear to have a physical presence in the US, the above does not apply to this server and host. If Gemany has the same laws as the US, that is another story. In summary, a word to those who may think about becoming a forum moderator, check the laws and liablilty first (especially in the US).

In other words, your post was totally irrelevant and poorly researched and yet you're still trying to chastise/intimidate/scare the moderators. With no basis whatsoever. Nothing that the moderators have done or said on this thread would even remotely be actionable legally. Just give it a rest. You're looking like a pompous would-be know-it-all.

My point was just that the idea of INNO not being aware of HQS being discussed around is ridiculous on many levels. Also it was firstly intended as an answer to the one asserting Inno does not HAVE to know about the content posted on their official forum, false assertion which was aimed at the HQS guide being on the forum for ages, one of the main playstyle used on FoE now.

No one has suggested that Inno does or does not know about subjects being discussed on the Forum. All that has been said is the PLAYER written guides are not official Inno content. Nowhere does the guide on Heavy Questing claim to be official Inno content, and nowhere does the original author (or authors of later iterations) claim to be an Inno staff member or employee, nor do they ever pretend to be anything other than players like the rest of us.

 

[blodgaarm]

It has just turned into FaceBook here. Lets all attack those who were discussing a rule change. Since your opinion apparently matches that of the "company" your posts will stand no matter how insulting you are, and the rest will go down in flames.

 

[Johnny B. Goode]

It has just turned into FaceBook here. Lets all attack those who were discussing a rule change. Since your opinion apparently matches that of the "company" your posts will stand no matter how insulting you are, and the rest will go down in flames.

If you consider it insulting to correct misinformation and call out irrelevant hogwash for what it is, then that's your problem, not mine.

 

[Tony 85 the Generous]

Update to version 1.200 | Forge of Empires Forum - It is specifically stated in this link that they fixed an exploit that allowed for unlimited coins and supplies.

How would someone in Modern Era make unlimited coins and supplies?

 

[Boogiewoogie657]

attack attack attack attack

No one has suggested that Inno does or does not know about subjects being discussed on the Forum.

Agent litteraly said :

Just because something is on the forum it does not mean Inno has to be aware of it.

which was what I was replying to, because that's false, they are not allowed to deny any awareness of their content, forum included.
so you're wrong, Johnny, like most of your interventions on that thread.
/flush