Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
5 cities finished all of GE4. 15 chances at Diamonds. 3 Diamond rewards. 20%. We'll see how this goes next week.
-
We are looking for you! Always wanted to join our Supporting Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
Take a look at our recruitement page for more information and how you can apply:
50% less GE Diamonds? More Like 75-90% (3yr Data Sheet)
- Thread starter La Marchessa
- Start date
-
- Tags
- changing rewards diamonds
La Marchessa
Active Member
lol yep I had 18 chances in 6 cities - hit a total of 3 times total in ALL cities combined. : )
Pericles the Lion
Well-Known Member
18 chances, 3 hits, 17%
15 chances, 3 hits, 20%
The expected number of hits is 30% over time. It would have been more informative if you had been sharing your results since the release of Level 5. Five times more data to consider. One season is not enough to support any conclusions but five would have gotten you closer.
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
Really? That's how percentages work? Thanks for enlightening us morons!
I am also completely shocked that you would respond so negatively to such a simple post. Did I extrapolate anything from that one week's result? No, it was a simple statement of fact. It also was the first week I finished GE4 in all 5 active cities. Life, ya know? Anyway, that may also be the only week I ever finish it in 5 cities because the game is rapidly losing its 8 year hold on me. And Inno shills like you are hastening the process. Just so you know. I'm considering just making all my cities Diamond farms and not really having a main. Then I can just show up once in a while and collect. Keep a toe in, so to speak, just in case the game ever gets good again.
Pericles the Lion
Well-Known Member
You're welcome. We "shills" are always willing to help the "morons" and don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out.Really? That's how percentages work? Thanks for enlightening us morons!
I am also completely shocked that you would respond so negatively to such a simple post. Did I extrapolate anything from that one week's result? No, it was a simple statement of fact. It also was the first week I finished GE4 in all 5 active cities. Life, ya know? Anyway, that may also be the only week I ever finish it in 5 cities because the game is rapidly losing its 8 year hold on me. And Inno shills like you are hastening the process. Just so you know. I'm considering just making all my cities Diamond farms and not really having a main. Then I can just show up once in a while and collect. Keep a toe in, so to speak, just in case the game ever gets good again.
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
Exactly the kind of response I expected.
Pericles the Lion
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that it was exactly the kind of response that you would have provided if the shoe were on the other foot.
La Marchessa
Active Member
Thank god PtheLyin' got the last word in, that means he's the winner!
Revenant Rogue
New Member
Hi all, this is my first ever post on the forum (though I've lurked on occasion for a while), but I just wanted to briefly add my 2 cents in, for a couple of reasons: one being that I have completed level 5 of GE since its inception 5+ weeks ago (on live, not beta), so I have a pretty good feel for it (and the value of its rewards) now, and two because I've also been a pretty dedicated diamond farmer for a few years now, and have also been seriously impacted by the "nerf" in diamond rewards in the expedition. Before going further, my own personal conclusion (and answer to the OP's question) is that it's a bit of a mixed bag, and I think your mileage will ultimately vary, depending on 1) whether you actually complete level 5 each week or not, and 2) whether you farm diamonds, and if so, what you spend diamonds on in the first place.
Personally, I have actually really enjoyed the new challenge and the fact that city defense is now necessary (again). That said, I had recently decimated all of my cities of their defensive boosts prior to level 5 being unveiled, so it's been a bit of a struggle to rebuild it. Still, I have managed to do enough by putting up the SBC and leveling it to a semi-decent level (30+ in all cities; 60+ in my main), and placing what ritual flames and dual attack/defense event buildings I had available (Fire Temple, for instance) to help me fight through the first 12 of 16 encounters. Stackable defense boost potions have also been absolutely key as well, and thank goodness for that! (In fact, I hope Inno gives out way more of those in future events, but that's another discussion lol). I've been negotiating the last 4 encounters to complete the level, and have actually been pleasantly surprised that both the goods and diamond cost for extra turns isn't nearly as bad as I feared it might be, after hearing tales of spending 10k goods to negotiate through the whole level! I've also built the most relevant fortifications on basically every encounter, either for defender attack (and infiltration when available) for fighting, and lower goods cost and fewer goods choices for negotiating. The net result of this total effort each week is that I've managed to construct the Forgotten Temple in each city, as well as the Serpent chain building (with Spikes!) in a couple as well.
The downside to all of this, which Chessa (who is a wonderful guild leader and friend of mine!) rightly pointed out is that the diamond rewards have been greatly reduced, and that has actually affected my own gameplay pretty substantially. Just prior to GE 5's introduction, I was making roughly 1k-1.2k diamonds in all cities combined per week (of which 500-600 were from GE, the rest wells and fountains), but now that has fallen to probably around 700-800 per week overall (and maybe 180-270 in GE). For me, that's a pretty darn big loss of diamond income, and I use those diamonds primarily to 1) do better in events (i.e. more daily specials and event buildings in my main), and 2) to buy diamond expansions for my main city. My ability to do both of those will now be significantly reduced for the foreseeable future.
Now, like I said, I have also plunged head-first in to level 5 and decided to try my best at it. I have been fortunate to be able to do just enough to get through the entire level each week, and now am enjoying the benefits of the Forgotten Temple. Over the past couple of weeks (since it took 4 weeks to gain enough fragments to build it), I have really been happy with the 20% FP boost (excluding GB's) in my cities, which has actually helped me level my GB's noticeably faster than before. In my main, with a decent BG boost (level 54, I believe) the effect is even more pronounced. And the 40% attack/defense for attacking army, combined with the 50% attack/defense for defending army is just incredibly overpowered for such a tiny footprint (the Temple does NOT require road access either, by the way). It's only been a couple of weeks, but it's already gotten to the point where I honestly don't ever want to go without it, because I'm already sort of addicted to it lol. I'd definitely go through some major boost withdrawal, if I had even a week without the Temple. In addition to the Temple, the Serpent with its 5% attack/defense boost for attacking army at level 1 (plus a few FP's), and the serpent spikes with its 15% attack/defense for defending army, are also a really nice little bonus. The Temple itself, the Serpent spikes, and the Greater Ritual Flame (I have one in each city now), have all combined together to actually help me fight through GE 5 a little easier, though I still have a lot of work to do there.
But going back to the original question from Chessa: has the loss in diamonds from GE made the game lose some of its sparkle for me? I will say that the very abrupt change in "meta" for the game, going from pure attack to actually requiring defense again has been a bit of a rude awakening. Initially, that did put me off quite a bit, especially since I actually used to have pretty decent defense in all cities, before reluctantly deleting most defensive-oriented buildings and replacing them with attack-oriented ones, for much better attack efficiency. So having to basically replace what I had just removed a few months prior was admittedly annoying. And the loss of diamond income has already started to affect my ability to spend in events, which has a knock-on effect for my city as well. The thing is, as I mentioned above, I have also LOVED the effects of the Forgotten Temple (and other GE reward buildings to a lesser extent), and for me, it has honestly helped compensate for that loss in diamonds.
This all brings me to my final concluding thought on the matter: I think whether or not someone actually minds the changes brought about by the overhauled GE depends on a couple of factors. The first issue has to do with whether or not you farmed diamonds before the change, and whether a significant portion came from GE. The second factor ultimately comes down to what you actually use diamonds for. Personally, I use diamonds purely to try and strengthen and expand my main city, and between the lesser event spending and improved attack/defense boost and FP-production, it feels kind of like a wash, at least for me. Basically, the new GE does fairly adequately compensate for the loss in diamond rewards with the new reward buildings (despite coming in fragments), but ONLY if you actually complete GE 5 each week. For people who want to continue using GE mainly to diamond farm, it is absolutely NOT a positive change, at all.
I feel like I can see both sides of the coin on this one, and as such have a somewhat nuanced (and long-winded apparently) perspective on it. All else being equal, I think it basically can distill down to what do you use and value diamonds for, and why do you play this game in the first place? Personally, I make diamonds to play the game, rather than play the game to make diamonds, but I can also appreciate the fact that established diamond farmers who've grown very accustomed to making a certain amount of diamonds each week, and high level fighters who built their cities to be the most attack-efficient possible, have all basically had their feet knocked out from underneath them. As I said initially, your mileage will vary, and it will vary depending on what your own particular experience with this game has been. It is certainly NOT the same for everyone, and I can definitely respect that.
Personally, I have actually really enjoyed the new challenge and the fact that city defense is now necessary (again). That said, I had recently decimated all of my cities of their defensive boosts prior to level 5 being unveiled, so it's been a bit of a struggle to rebuild it. Still, I have managed to do enough by putting up the SBC and leveling it to a semi-decent level (30+ in all cities; 60+ in my main), and placing what ritual flames and dual attack/defense event buildings I had available (Fire Temple, for instance) to help me fight through the first 12 of 16 encounters. Stackable defense boost potions have also been absolutely key as well, and thank goodness for that! (In fact, I hope Inno gives out way more of those in future events, but that's another discussion lol). I've been negotiating the last 4 encounters to complete the level, and have actually been pleasantly surprised that both the goods and diamond cost for extra turns isn't nearly as bad as I feared it might be, after hearing tales of spending 10k goods to negotiate through the whole level! I've also built the most relevant fortifications on basically every encounter, either for defender attack (and infiltration when available) for fighting, and lower goods cost and fewer goods choices for negotiating. The net result of this total effort each week is that I've managed to construct the Forgotten Temple in each city, as well as the Serpent chain building (with Spikes!) in a couple as well.
The downside to all of this, which Chessa (who is a wonderful guild leader and friend of mine!) rightly pointed out is that the diamond rewards have been greatly reduced, and that has actually affected my own gameplay pretty substantially. Just prior to GE 5's introduction, I was making roughly 1k-1.2k diamonds in all cities combined per week (of which 500-600 were from GE, the rest wells and fountains), but now that has fallen to probably around 700-800 per week overall (and maybe 180-270 in GE). For me, that's a pretty darn big loss of diamond income, and I use those diamonds primarily to 1) do better in events (i.e. more daily specials and event buildings in my main), and 2) to buy diamond expansions for my main city. My ability to do both of those will now be significantly reduced for the foreseeable future.
Now, like I said, I have also plunged head-first in to level 5 and decided to try my best at it. I have been fortunate to be able to do just enough to get through the entire level each week, and now am enjoying the benefits of the Forgotten Temple. Over the past couple of weeks (since it took 4 weeks to gain enough fragments to build it), I have really been happy with the 20% FP boost (excluding GB's) in my cities, which has actually helped me level my GB's noticeably faster than before. In my main, with a decent BG boost (level 54, I believe) the effect is even more pronounced. And the 40% attack/defense for attacking army, combined with the 50% attack/defense for defending army is just incredibly overpowered for such a tiny footprint (the Temple does NOT require road access either, by the way). It's only been a couple of weeks, but it's already gotten to the point where I honestly don't ever want to go without it, because I'm already sort of addicted to it lol. I'd definitely go through some major boost withdrawal, if I had even a week without the Temple. In addition to the Temple, the Serpent with its 5% attack/defense boost for attacking army at level 1 (plus a few FP's), and the serpent spikes with its 15% attack/defense for defending army, are also a really nice little bonus. The Temple itself, the Serpent spikes, and the Greater Ritual Flame (I have one in each city now), have all combined together to actually help me fight through GE 5 a little easier, though I still have a lot of work to do there.
But going back to the original question from Chessa: has the loss in diamonds from GE made the game lose some of its sparkle for me? I will say that the very abrupt change in "meta" for the game, going from pure attack to actually requiring defense again has been a bit of a rude awakening. Initially, that did put me off quite a bit, especially since I actually used to have pretty decent defense in all cities, before reluctantly deleting most defensive-oriented buildings and replacing them with attack-oriented ones, for much better attack efficiency. So having to basically replace what I had just removed a few months prior was admittedly annoying. And the loss of diamond income has already started to affect my ability to spend in events, which has a knock-on effect for my city as well. The thing is, as I mentioned above, I have also LOVED the effects of the Forgotten Temple (and other GE reward buildings to a lesser extent), and for me, it has honestly helped compensate for that loss in diamonds.
This all brings me to my final concluding thought on the matter: I think whether or not someone actually minds the changes brought about by the overhauled GE depends on a couple of factors. The first issue has to do with whether or not you farmed diamonds before the change, and whether a significant portion came from GE. The second factor ultimately comes down to what you actually use diamonds for. Personally, I use diamonds purely to try and strengthen and expand my main city, and between the lesser event spending and improved attack/defense boost and FP-production, it feels kind of like a wash, at least for me. Basically, the new GE does fairly adequately compensate for the loss in diamond rewards with the new reward buildings (despite coming in fragments), but ONLY if you actually complete GE 5 each week. For people who want to continue using GE mainly to diamond farm, it is absolutely NOT a positive change, at all.
I feel like I can see both sides of the coin on this one, and as such have a somewhat nuanced (and long-winded apparently) perspective on it. All else being equal, I think it basically can distill down to what do you use and value diamonds for, and why do you play this game in the first place? Personally, I make diamonds to play the game, rather than play the game to make diamonds, but I can also appreciate the fact that established diamond farmers who've grown very accustomed to making a certain amount of diamonds each week, and high level fighters who built their cities to be the most attack-efficient possible, have all basically had their feet knocked out from underneath them. As I said initially, your mileage will vary, and it will vary depending on what your own particular experience with this game has been. It is certainly NOT the same for everyone, and I can definitely respect that.
La Marchessa
Active Member
"Mobile games developer and publisher InnoGames had a record-breaking year in 2020. The German studio saw €220 million ($266 million) in revenue, a rise of 15 per cent year-on-year. Furthermore, it is the 14th consecutive year that the company has experienced financial growth." https://www.pocketgamer.biz/news/75933/innogames-saw-record-breaking-revenues-of-266-million-in-2020/#:~:text=Mobile games developer and publisher,company has experienced financial growth.
LOL I do not agree with Impaler's assessment that it is inevitable that a fantasy game has to deliver the decidedly unpleasant experience of real world inflation because of hardware costs. It's like saying the British public HAS to fork out .5 billion (the real cost estimate) for the Coronation) while Prince Charles himself is worth multiple billions and doesn't put in a dime. NOPE, it does not have to be inevitable or required, its just gotten away with.
Here's the beef - Inno has been worth multiple multiple HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars annually for years - the new owners just wanna milk the cash cow till she keels over and dies. Those hundreds of millions annually were made on the model of NO FRAGMENTS, WHOLE WELLS AVAILABE IN EVENTS, and 75%+ MORE DIAMOND REWARDS IN GE than now. Sounds like a winning model actually, and hardware was never a problem. I'm not saying this is immoral, as capitalism famously has no morality. Killing a cash cow? A debatable corporate strategy.
If Inno needs to clear its servers it can clear out millions of inactive accounts and reduce the time it takes to get rid of a city after Delete to two days instead of letting them sit there for two weeks - no moves like that whatsoever and so Inno is choosing to keep its serves bloated with non-active cities - so the expensive server argument fails completely.
@Revenant Rogue thanks for weighing in! I find your perspective helpful and enlightening.
UBERhelp1
Well-Known Member
First, we've been over this, it's not 75% less diamonds.
Second, That €220M is not what they are making today. My estimate would place their revenue somewhere around €160M - €180M currently. That's not the cash cow being milked, that's the cash cow not being fed.
Third, if Inno was perfectly fine financially, then why did they lay off 1/6 of their staff??? That's not what you do when you're consistently making more revenue. They no doubt cut staff to help balance their loss of revenue. However, as Sharmon explained, the majority of Inno's costs are probably datacenter related. It's EXPENSIVE to host such a large game, where at any point, hundreds of thousands of players may be online.
Is this how I would have gone about monetizing FoE? Of course not! But something has to give in order to regain growth of revenue. And for right now, that's GE, and balancing how many free diamonds you can get to something that is still pretty generous imo. You don't need diamonds to play the game, and if you do, well now you can support the game you've been playing for years for free. Seems like a fair deal to me.
DreadfulCadillac
Well-Known Member
FOE does not have 100s of thousands of people online at once lmfao
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
From my perspective, the Diamond issue (while terribly annoying) is actually secondary (or tertiary, I guess) to the other nerfed rewards in GE1-4 and the ridiculous boosts required to switch to defending army stats for level 5. It has affected my desire to continue playing this game, along with the changes to events. I have actually only collected once from my cities in the last 3 days. I have almost completely ignored the current event. The day is coming soon when I won't be here at all. Really sad when I think back to how great this game was 8 years ago, and the promise it then held for the future. Unfortunately, a promise not kept.
La Marchessa
Active Member
Some take to the change like @Rev Rogue but for most, its just more work for a similar result.
@Uber It is about 75% less diamonds in my cities, or more, like it or not. Also you fire 75 players because the people you bought it from were making so much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that they had a bloated payroll. More proof that the WHOLE WELL, LUSH DIAMOND REWARDS GE was a very good working model.
La Marchessa
Active Member
I agree - but they choose to carry a ton of dead weight in inactive cities and extremely low grade players that maybe log in once a week..
Johnny B. Goode
Well-Known Member
Actually, no and no. I am an established Diamond farmer who has always relied on Wishing Wells first and foremost. And since I've been collecting them for quite a while, this nerf of Diamonds in GE is really just an annoyance. Certainly doesn't rise to the level of having my "feet knocked out from underneath" me.
And everything I could attack-fight before, I can still attack-fight, so you're wrong again. There is nothing in GE5 that is effective outside of GE5 that I can't get the equivalent elsewhere without ever having to mess with GE5. Forgotten Temple? Forget it. The defense boost is worthless to me in every city. The FP boost would be nice, but certainly not worth doing GE5 every week to get. The attacking boosts? The 40% attacking attack boost I can easily match, and the 40% attacking defense would be fine, but not really necessary to the way I fight in any of my cities, so not worth any extra effort to get.
In short, my story hasn't changed. There's nothing in GE5 that I need, certainly nothing that justifies bothering with altering my city or spending the resources to get. My objection to GE5 isn't what it did to my game, which is nothing*, it's to the fact that they could have done so much better...and didn't. It's crap, and only Inno apologists believe differently.
*The changes to GE1-4 did affect my game to some degree, but GE5 did not.
UBERhelp1
Well-Known Member
To this, since I don't think a lot of people on these forums know what SQL even is, and would probably pronounce it S-Q-L,
It doesn't cost a lot to have data sitting doing nothing. It costs a lot to move that data, change that data, and send that data to users. So inactive players? Their cities only sit there. The servers don't have to do much with that. It's the active players that are what you're paying for.
Think of the servers like a warehouse. It takes little work to put something on a shelf and leave it there untouched. But it takes a lot of work to find that something, move it to another spot, maybe package it and send it to a customer. Same thing, but data, and on a much larger scale.
Revenant Rogue
New Member
I'm sorry but your own personal experience as a diamond farmer does not somehow invalidate mine or others' experience. My points about the diamond nerf affecting many players significantly absolutely still stands, despite your being insulated from it, simply due the way you happen to play the game.
I'm guessing you're referring to still being able to fight through the first 4 levels of GE? Sure, I can as well, and that never changed. I don't see how I'm "wrong again" about that when I never even mentioned anything about that in the first place. When I was talking about people having their "feet knocked out from underneath them" I was referring almost purely to the loss in diamond income, which is substantial for those who used GE as a main source of diamonds. GE may not have been one of your main sources of diamonds, but it was for many, myself included.
Also, you mentioned that "there is nothing in GE5 that is effective outside of GE5 that I can't get the equivalent elsewhere without ever having to mess with GE5. Forgotten Temple? Forget it." Well, that's just patently FALSE. How could you possibly hope to increase your city's (non-GB) FP efficiency by 20%, short of spending literally tens of thousands of diamonds on events for better event buildings (which would take months, btw)? The Temple literally does that instantly when built, and only requires 4 weeks of completing GE5, and maybe hundreds of diamonds in negotiations over those 4 weeks, rather than the probably 15k+ with the other method. So yeah, in no meaningful way could you honestly view the two as "equivalent."
Ok so to start with, it's 40% attack AND defense for attacking army, PLUS 50% attack AND defense for defending army, in a 3x4 space! Again, can you add that to your city in other ways, of course you can. Can you add all of that to your city in the same 3x4 space? Not a chance! The attack (and defense) efficiency of your city instantly rises quite a bit with the construction of the FT, and it's disingenuous in the extreme to act as if you can possibly replicate that in any other way, because you simply can't. You can add sentinel outposts, winner's plazas, etc. to match that attack, sure, but the space required to match it would be MUCH greater; i.e. way less efficient.
Again, just because that's your particular experience, doesn't mean it applies to everyone else. GE5 may not be worth it to you personally, but for many others, a 20% FP increase and a significant enhancement to a city's attack/defense efficiency is worth a heck of a lot, and to just gloss over that fact like it's irrelevant is not only dismissive, it's also pretty darn short-sighted and myopic.
You say my opinions are "wrong" and call people "apologists" and "shills" for having a different viewpoint all you want, but no amount of ad hominem attacks will ever make your argument more compelling, persuasive, or factually correct, especially when that argument is also littered with logical fallacies and specious statements of supposed fact.
La Marchessa
Active Member
I'm not sure if you are replying to the right message. I never quoted an amount of users. I'm not arguing with you either. I think they must use a ton of servers, but it's nothing compared to the money they make. I hope that clears up what I was saying Sharmon.
La Marchessa
Active Member
Sharmon,
I don't agree 100% - hows that... and I don't see 100% anywhere in my replies. lol
I agree that UBER just makes a lot of guesses that he presents as assertions everyone should just accept, which I do not. I think it's possible that Inno has hundreds of thousands on at peak times perhaps, but not constantly. I'd like to see this worked out or see numbers on it or something else. No matter how much hardware they've needed or need, even with upgrades, they make way more money than that - much more than people would probably guess. I would have never thought Inno had made what it did in 2020 for example. .
I appreciate your participation here, because I enjoy healthy debate.
Last edited: