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A New Day

mamboking053

Well-Known Member
Stephen Longshanks said:
The problem is that there is no way to stop new players from coming on here and either asking "stupid" questions, posting half-baked, non-formatted proposals or getting their backs up when they don't like our answers. We can't fix them. The only thing we can control is how we, as experienced players and frequent contributors, react to them. We haven't done a very good job at that. I may not be the worst offender, but I am right up there.
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This is what you called a veiled fist, Stephen. It's an attack offered as or wrapped in an apology. Both direct insults and indirect insults will have to be curbed if this is going to be a sincere effort. (I'd edit it out of the OP ASAP)

Even so, I appreciate the gesture highly. The forums need it.
 

mamboking053

Well-Known Member
Agent327 said:
I do not treat people different cause they are new, nor do I immediately label them as a troll once their opinion conflicts with mine. I am not part of the hypocrite elite that has gone astray. I am just a ytroll, so I can not help you.

Twin sister?
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It's often the people who say abusive things that vocalize their rights to free speech the most... They'll honor their unregulated discharge as "straight-forward, blunt, and honest" and see themselves as a martyr of a dying virtue or culture.

Then complain about everyone else being PC. (aka having manners and respect for other people)

I get that sometimes people are a little too sensitive, but it also goes the other way. People can be abusive and then whine about their sensibilities when people don't allow them to keep doing it. I mean...look at it. All that's being asked is for you to reign in the negativity and it's like someone threw holy water on you. Now you're spinning on everyone tossing out vomit.

I say we continue with the exorcism.
 

mamboking053

Well-Known Member
Stephen Longshanks said:
So the Forum has gotten a reputation, rightly or wrongly, of being a forbidding place. A place where newbies are eviscerated for asking a simple question. A place where players are made to feel unwelcome. A place where threads devolve into personal battlegrounds. We need to change this.

And I recognize and acknowledge my part in making it seem this way. I have a hard time walking away when I am attacked or insulted, especially when it comes from someone who hasn't played the game very long and responds to feedback with arrogance.

The problem is that there is no way to stop new players from coming on here and either asking "stupid" questions, posting half-baked, non-formatted proposals or getting their backs up when they don't like our answers. We can't fix them. The only thing we can control is how we, as experienced players and frequent contributors, react to them. We haven't done a very good job at that. I may not be the worst offender, but I am right up there.

So here's my "proposal" for all of us frequent responders. Let's stop it. Not stop responding originally, that wouldn't solve anything and would make the Forum a pretty desolate place. No, let's stop responding in kind to the less mature people that occasionally visit the Forum. Let's walk away. Let's quit having to have the last word.

It won't be easy. We've gotten into a habit, and habits are hard to break. I know that for me it will be extremely difficult to do. But I am convinced that unless we take this step, the Forum's reputation will continue to deteriorate, and become an even more toxic environment than it is now.

So, who's with me? Who will pledge to stop the unnecessary snark directed at newbies? Who will pledge to answer questions, even stupid ones, as if the person genuinely needs the help? Who will pledge to give honest, respectful feedback to newbie proposals and then walk away if it is answered with a personal attack? Who will join me in trying to make the Forum a kinder, gentler place? Who wants to start a new day, a better day in the Forum? Anyone?
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Also, I'd like to suggest that only certain threads or parts of the forum be regulated in such a way because the purpose of them if for people to ask questions and get answers.

However, there are places in the forums, like lounges and the Debate Hall, where, if people want to dig into an issue or "speak freely" they can do so without cluttering up the threads with off-topic or degenerative back-and-forth.

Not sure if that helps, just my two cents.
 

Bruadhin

Active Member
I recently found this forum after having played a few months, mainly in the goal of being a more efficient player. I would like to believe it has helped.

Reading this thread and the one I would say spawned it, I find myself a bit confused. I admit I haven't read it in full or religiously, but I'm really not seeing a culture of newbie bashing or general abuse. It is pretty tame here. In fact from what I have seen, the proposals section seems to be the biggest problem. Which appears to be primarily caused by people not reading the rules regarding proposals, not following the format, not researching past proposals, and responding poorly to any feedback that isn't supportive of the idea. While I can see that people may not research past proposals, there is no real excuse for the other first two, and if you can't handle a difference of opinion then posting your ideas to the internet may not be a good idea.

It seems to me that perhaps a review of the proposal system would be a better idea, something that didn't impose an additional burden on anyone.
 

DeletedUser36572

Posters tailoring their own behavior in order to avoid unnecessary foolishness is not bad.

To assume it is positive to tailor an environment to an atmosphere that doesn't reflect the nuances one (especially newer players) will encounter in game, may not be the best idea. It also leads to people making crazy threads suggesting where core aspects of the game should be limited or changed (like PVP, plundering and whatnot).

Upon review, you may find that being overly nice is what leads to threads where people become abusive, because others expect the game to reflect the same ambiance they have managed to affect in the forum.

But ... @Stephen Longshanks is correct ...
Checking yourself in a fruitless argument is not a bad idea. I am not sure taking the grit out of everyone's responses is necessarily a positive thing though.
 

DeletedUser33179

mamboking053 said:
This is what you called a veiled fist, Stephen. It's an attack offered as or wrapped in an apology. Both direct insults and indirect insults will have to be curbed if this is going to be a sincere effort. (I'd edit it out of the OP ASAP)

Even so, I appreciate the gesture highly. The forums need it.
Click to expand...


Wow. Only took you 10 minutes - the time between making that post (noted above) & making your follow up post (noted below) - to act like a major hypocrite.


mamboking053 said:
It's often the people who say abusive things that vocalize their rights to free speech the most... They'll honor their unregulated discharge as "straight-forward, blunt, and honest" and see themselves as a martyr of a dying virtue or culture.

Then complain about everyone else being PC. (aka having manners and respect for other people)

I get that sometimes people are a little too sensitive, but it also goes the other way. People can be abusive and then whine about their sensibilities when people don't allow them to keep doing it. I mean...look at it. All that's being asked is for you to reign in the negativity and it's like someone threw holy water on you. Now you're spinning on everyone tossing out vomit.

I say we continue with the exorcism.
Click to expand...

(I've highlighted the text in question to draw attention to my point)

You preach how you consider the OP flawed (both indirect & direct insults need to stop) and lecture that poster on what he should do (edit his OP). Then, in your next breath you insult another poster multiple times - that he's holier-than-thou & his posts are vomit. But, wait... you don't stop there... that isn't good enough for you. You end your post actively encouraging the forum to gang up on him to get rid of him - "I say we continue with the exorcism."

If your are entirely unable to Walk-the-Walk for even a couple minutes, then perhaps you should stop Talking-the-talk.
 

DeletedUser33179

bruadhin said:
I recently found this forum after having played a few months, mainly in the goal of being a more efficient player. I would like to believe it has helped.

Reading this thread and the one I would say spawned it, I find myself a bit confused. I admit I haven't read it in full or religiously, but I'm really not seeing a culture of newbie bashing or general abuse. It is pretty tame here. In fact from what I have seen, the proposals section seems to be the biggest problem. Which appears to be primarily caused by people not reading the rules regarding proposals, not following the format, not researching past proposals, and responding poorly to any feedback that isn't supportive of the idea. While I can see that people may not research past proposals, there is no real excuse for the other first two, and if you can't handle a difference of opinion then posting your ideas to the internet may not be a good idea.

It seems to me that perhaps a review of the proposal system would be a better idea, something that didn't impose an additional burden on anyone.
Click to expand...

Agree with you completely!
 

mamboking053

Well-Known Member
Clara Osgood said:
Wow. Only took you 10 minutes - the time between making that post (noted above) & making your follow up post (noted below) - to act like a major hypocrite.




(I've highlighted the text in question to draw attention to my point)

You preach how you consider the OP flawed (both indirect & direct insults need to stop) and lecture that poster on what he should do (edit his OP). Then, in your next breath you insult another poster multiple times - that he's holier-than-thou & his posts are vomit. But, wait... you don't stop there... that isn't good enough for you. You end your post actively encouraging the forum to gang up on him to get rid of him - "I say we continue with the exorcism."

If your are entirely unable to Walk-the-Walk for even a couple minutes, then perhaps you should stop Talking-the-talk.
Click to expand...

Were those insults?
 

mamboking053

Well-Known Member
Clara Osgood said:
Lecturing folks on what they must do. Then deliberately doing what you just said folks shouldn't do. And now followed up with a pathetic attempt at direct confrontation whilst ignoring your very own previous actions.

Gosh. I'm just not seeing a speck of commitment from you to personally improve the forum, sweetie.
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Is a question an attempt at a direct confrontation?
 

Bruadhin

Active Member
Clara Osgood said:
Lecturing folks on what they must do. Then deliberately doing what you just said folks shouldn't do. And now followed up with a pathetic attempt at direct confrontation whilst ignoring your very own previous actions.

Gosh. I'm just not seeing a speck of commitment from you to personally improve the forum, sweetie.
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Clara was one of my favorite companions.
 
Agent327

Agent327

Well-Known Member
mamboking053 said:
I think you're reading what you want to see.

Even so, you're right about my first posts. They were bad. I apologize, Agent.
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I really don't care.

You stick by your point and apologize. Do you really belive I would accept that?

People like you ruin this forum. Not the troll.
 
Graviton

Graviton

Well-Known Member
Emberguard said:
@Agent327 if the forums are to improve we need you on board with this as well.
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I disagree. To engender a calmer general atmosphere we only need most of us to avoid petulance and snark, not necessarily everybody. The one thing that may be more difficult than anything else is when one of us does some trolling, the rest of us should refrain from calling them out. Just let the posts speak for themselves. That way we avoid the inevitable back-and-forth of, "You're just trolling!" "No I'm not!" "Yes you are!"

... even if the other slipped our response would not be to retaliate in kind.
Click to expand...

Exactly. We can't control other posters; we're still going to get dumb questions and bad proposals. The only thing each of us can control is our own posts. So what if some anonymous jerk on the internet insults you? Does he sign your checks? Do you sleep with him? Does he know you at all, in any way? If the answer to those questions is "no" then you shouldn't give a rip what he has to say because it doesn't affect your life in the least. If you are compelled to shoot back then it's your ego that's the problem, not the idiot you think you're sparring with.
 

DeletedUser

This has been an interesting discussion. Some good, some not so much. You all can each do what you think best with what I said in my original post. The fact is that no matter what changes to the Forum might be helpful, that's not up to us. Another fact is that we can't control how other players behave. The only change we can make is in how we act. So, change or don't change. I'm not planning on regulating or policing any of this. I can only control me... and even that only most of the time.
 

DeletedUser29563

Longshanks has spurred me to become a pacifist and promote peace and jubilance.
So im gonna follow Mr. Trumps lead. Effective immediately, I'm pulling all of my troops out of B world Indy, Me, and CE GvG maps. Live out the rest of my days a fat n happy GB diva, counting my FP and shatting on tha little guy...word!
 
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