• We are looking for you!
    Always wanted to join our Supporting Team? We are looking for enthusiastic moderators!
    Take a look at our recruitement page for more information and how you can apply:
    Apply

Equity???

Algona

Well-Known Member
WARNING! Ridiculously long post. Read at your own peril.

I don't understand your dismay (is that the correct word) over HQS
Dismay is the exact right word, the rest of the sentence is wrong. I didn't say a negative word about HQS. I'll explain that later.

Ace, you gotta take the time to read closer. You keep misunderstand what folk actually say missing out out on a lot of nuance and subtlety.

Quit being in an all fired hurry to respond and take a little more time to comprehend what's being said.

Oh, and for the sake of clarity, check your posts. You're in such a hurry that you keep garbling your posts by including your response in what you quoted.

Please take a little time to check your posts. Like it or not mangled posts detract from your point.

As I was about to post, I saw this gem:

Understood.. What I write is not a "reaction" it is a response. There is a difference.
No, you react. I've seen you respond to posts two minutes after they were posted.

That ain't a reasoned response, it's a knee jerk reaction bordering on reflex, a manifestation of you automatically disagreeing with anything possible.

Heck that post itself is a wonderful example of you doing just that.

----------

As I said, dismay was the right word, but the rest of the sentnece was completely wrong.

Go to the Guides page, same place you read UBNER's advanced Era troops Guide.

Look for CR's HQS Guide, scroll down to the first non-CR Post.

I didn't dislike HQS, I embraced it. And realized in a couple days that grinding 100 RQs a day for years wasn't for me.

HQS was the dominant strategy in the game for over a year. CR woite what is still easily the best Guide in this game due to it being a complete one stop easily followed well reasoned Guide to advanincg city state much faster then anythign else available at the time.

A player could read the Guide (complete with detailed explanations and glossary) and be into HQS in hours. I never thought otherwise, and made sure that all my apprentices understood the principles, referred them to the Guide, and helped them build HQS cities if that was what they wanted.

HQS was eay, worked, was the best city advancement strategy dominant in it's time.

An aside here. I've always wondered what CR would have done with HQS if he had stayed with the game. CR was a genius, i regret we didn't get to see how he would have evolved HQS. [/aside]

While I understood it, experimented with it, taught it, I didn't use it personally because I don't like grinding RQs continually.

Dig it?

----------

My problem was different. Because CR did a great job, any player could adopt HQS no matter their lack of fundamental understanding of the game.

This ease of use led to a lot of awful players using HQS. That's not a problem.

No, the problem was a lot more subtle.

Players ignorant of the fundamentals of the game believed the success they had due to following HQS made them expert at the game.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not slamming all HQS players. Just the idiots who assumed that the ability to follow the Guide equated to expertise in the game.

These folks developed a fanaticism that always led to the answer of HQS will solve your problem. A one size answer that fixed everything

For a year you couldn't have a discussion on any topic pt answer any question, without some ignorant HQS zealot spreading the good word that HQS could solve everything.

No, my problem wasn't with HQS, it was awful players giving bad advice.

That's a recurrent theme with me because it constantly recurs on this forum.

Players assuming expertise in one aspect of the game equates to expertise in everything.

----------

This thread has a wonderful example of this. The OP was upset about being attacked by troops from a higher Era. They didn't know that you can get troops from a higher Era. Later they said that they had a good understanding of the game because they had previously advanced to ProgE.

This was mirrored when Arc became ubiquitous. Folk who didn't understand the game were constantly telling others to get Arc to solve every problem, nevermind that it takes months or longer to get one.

Now it's happening with Arc+GBG players. It;s the answer to everythign, nevermind that it takes months to get there.

Players who have mastered the current best strategy making the mistake of thinking that means they understand the game in full.

Arc+GBG is the dominant strategy now for rapid city advancement.

Being able to do it does not equate to expertise in the game.

Choosing not to do so does not equate to a lack of expertise.

----------

Let's get to the heart of the matter as far as I'm concerned.

Speaking only for myself, and I may be naive, game mechanics from "back in the day" may provide context but are not applicable to my game today.
If you had said that originally them all would be fine. Play as you want.

Algona Sooth Sayer may have popped up with the inevitable prediction that you'll find out just how wrong that sentiment is the moment you try to teach new players how to play the game or become involved in any sort of Guild Leadership. Lt.Stark alluded to that up thread.

But you didn't start with that, you started with all sorts of silliness about obsolete knowledge and being useless and how long term posters with years of experiince and demonstrated expertise may not understand the game.

How can a novice (9 months in game?) understand this game?

They can't. What they can do is exploit strategies developed over the years to rapidly develope a city.

If you refuse to fully understand the history and progress of the game as well as the fundamentals that can only be learned by going through that process, how can you possibly have confidence in your judgement if what to do as the game changes?

You learned how to do what you do now by copying what others did long after some others invented and developed those techniques.

Will you keep doing that in the future?

You mention GBG becoming relegated. A reasonable prediction, I would never disagree with.

How will you recognize and prepare for the needed changes to game play if you don't know the patterns that surround the previous changes?

Wait the months for others to develope it and copy them?

Anyone can see now that Arc+GBG is the dominant strategy.

The players who realized the consequences of GBG when first deployed are the ones who are still leading the game.

Two examples here: Guild Treasury is a sine qua non for successful GBG play. Folks who went through the process of bootstrapping Guild Treasury for GvG or GE knew what was coming, we got an early lead on building our Treasuries. Those that didn't are still kvetching abiout getting 'bullied'.

Much more subtle is the problem of finding equitable (I remember a thread titled Equity???) means to assure that all players get a reasonable opportunity to get in all the GBG fights they want. There's no direct previous parallel to this, but experience managing .X threads gave players a hint of that problem.

How does the saying go?

You mentioned earlier about various guides and techniques being obsolete. How can you possibly judge such if you don't filly understand why they were developed?

Please quit equating your ability to copy a strategy that others developed to you understanding the game.

You seem to be a bright eloquent person. I suspect if you have a desire to do so, you can become a phenomenal player, not just another Arc+GBG player.

Will you? I dunno. I suspect that will hinge on you overcoming your desire to incessantly argue about that of which you know little.
 
Last edited:

icarusethan

Active Member
Dude, you're pathetic. You couldn't even handle two cities without your guild buddies to build you up, let alone 9. My statement wasn't a boast, it was a fact based on my knowledge of the abilities of the posters here. Every one of them has experience and expertise in this game that you can't come close to matching. You have membership in a top 10 guild to lean on. Try building one city up without a guild like that to nursemaid you, then we'll talk.
and yet none of your city is built up in any of those 9 servers, quite an expert
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
I neither seek your approval nor need it.
Then why on earth do you keep responding? Your actions clearly say otherwise.

I have seen you say you don't care and you continue the argument. I have seen you say you will stop posting and you continue to post. I have seen you say "Goodbye" and 5 minutes later you are there again.

As one forum user to another, all you achieve is that you lose your credibility. You are on a forum. There are bound to be posters that do not agree with you, same as you do not agree with all posters. Stop fighting everyone and everything. You will enjoy your time here much more.
 

Kranyar the Mysterious

Well-Known Member
I was set to send a reply, actually did then deleted it. But, after more thought and after re-reading your final sentence I changed my mind. Instead, I will ask you why on earth should I give your treatise any serious consideration? I've looked at your 3 cities on the EN server and, as I previously mentioned to you, none are highly developed and all have been inactive for over eight months. You're not even playing the game so why should I pay any attention?
Lol, like all of Algona's cities are on the EN server :rolleyes:
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
In regards to me saying that I would stop posting you are referring to privileged communication between yourself, me, and a number of other INNO employees. I suggest that you tread lightly.
Actually the things they described are all in your own forum posts in the threads between here and the wheel thread. There’s other posts but these two should be sufficient
I'm checking out of the Forum. There are many other drama-free sources of information available. Y'all deserve each other
Nope, this is all about me having an opinion that runs contrary to the clique and, regrettably you are enabling it. Goodbye.
I get you don’t like them, but if you’re going to throw around accusations in regards to private communication then that would be better sorted in private
 

Agent327

FOE Team
Forum Moderator
I'll be happy to extend my research to the other servers for Algona or any of the other regular posters to this thread and modify my assessment if warranted Please point me in the right direction.
Would that help? Algona does not even have 1 city on the EN server, where you claim he has 3. Those 3 are on the US server. Same server this forum is dedicated to.
 

Emberguard

Well-Known Member
However, take another look a posts #4, #12 (pay attention to the quote from the OP that got censored), #15, and #17. Does the content and tone of these posts look familiar?
Yes, ok. However:
Then, in post #26 I made the recommendation that the OP consider the source
While you may mean well, there are times your own tone isn’t all that different from those you’re criticising.

If all you wanted was for the player to take the answer and then test it for accuracy, you didn’t need to bring up “false prophets” or direct that statement towards anyone. You could have simply left it at recommending doing your own research once you have an answer to get a better understanding of the mechanics.

You make some valid points, there are things that need improving in regards to how people communicate with each other, but you’re also at times reacting to things in much the same manner you take issue with.

Emberguard, you're reading too much into it.
Perhaps we all are
 
Last edited:

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
I agree. The original post had to do with getting attacked and plundered. However, take another look a posts #4, #12 (pay attention to the quote from the OP that got censored), #15, and #17. Does the content and tone of these posts look familiar? Then, in post #26 I made the recommendation that the OP consider the source. At that point the thread went off topic. Why the FM allowed this is a question only he can answer.
Really? You're now the tone police?

Based on that, I never could have predicted you taking the thread off topic.
 

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
Taking into consideration your typical responses to other players (Post #4 is a case on point) someone sure needs to step up and assume the role. .
There's nothing wrong with my post. It is factually accurate and no one should play a game they don't like, especially one where plunder has been there since the beginning.

You may think so, but I also don't think Inno is so desperate for new players we need to beg people who don't like fundamental aspects of the game to keep playing.
So. perhaps you aren't perfect after all. Who would have guessed?
You are correct, I forgot the sarcasm font. Of course most don't need it. Guess you do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

RazorbackPirate

Well-Known Member
Re: Pop Warner

You've obviously never played sports or played them after everyone started getting a trophy just for showing up. Every sport I played that's exactly what I heard. Suck it up, get better, or quit. Simple as that. The rest is feels which we can all do without. Suck it up buttercup. No one cares about your feels, or your idea of equity.

Re: Sarcasm

See definition below. I hit the mark I intended, including showing my complete derision for the Karens of the world.

sar•casm sär′kăz″əm
  • n.
    A cutting, often ironic remark intended to express contempt or ridicule.
  • n.
    A form of wit characterized by the use of such remarks.
  • n.
    A biting taunt or gibe, or the use of such a taunt; a bitter, cutting expression; a satirical remark or expression, uttered with scorn or contempt; in rhetoric, a form of irony; bitter irony.
"Let me speak to the manager! I don't like that man' tone!"
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
My credibility, and that of every new poster to the Forum, is determined by time in game and was established the second my very first message was posted
Wrong. Your credibility (or lack thereof) was determined when you ignored the Community Manager telling you that you were wrong and continued to claim you were right while insultingly dismissing any player who dared to disagree with you.

I'm not one to back down when I feel I am right.
Except that you refused to back down even when authoritatively told you were wrong. Give it up, dude.
 

Algona

Well-Known Member
I will ask you why on earth should I give your treatise any serious consideration?
You're operating under the assumption that I'm trying to persuade you.

I'm not.

I don't write to a poster of your ilk with hopes of persuading you personally of anything.

I'm using you as one in a long line of posters as an example of the principle

Expertise at any aspect of the game does not assure expertise at anything else.

Happily I'm getting two for one here:

actually did then deleted it. But, after more thought and after re-reading your final sentence I changed my mind.
Of course you had to reply. You can't help it. Remember way back when you promised to quit the forum?

You are are unable to see it, but that mangled quote I first applied to you is dead on accurate.

No matter how many times in how many ways you are shown to be wrong, you will continue to argue.

Two explicit examples. Disagreeing with an INNO employee about the game and your original post in this thread, an inflammatory carryover from the wheel thread that didn't even make a vague attempt to help the OP. There's plenty more to not knowing about the EN server to thinking I disliked HQS to more dealing with every other person you've responded to.

Pretty sure the only person you've convinced you're right about most of what you've posted is you.

Wait, we're adding a third in the last few posts.

You're now assuming you understand posters as well. You don't. The OP was here to kvetch, nothing they were told was going to do any good.

Unlike in game where you've done one thing on the forums ya don't know dooky about these forums or the folk who post here or what happens.

6+ years, thousands of posts, reading every day. That gives insights into the state of the game and the thoughts and concerns and habits of players.

That's one of the reasons I don't have to admit i'm wrong very often despite a lot of predictions. Like it or not, I'm right on about 95% of predictions.

It's because you and your ilk make it so easy. You're doing everything exactly to the same script all your predecessors used.

Including being told exactly how you are wrong, how to correct it, and yet knowing you'll ignore it.

All to script.

You're not even playing the game so why should I pay any attention?
As you said, there hasn't been a significant quantitative change to the game since about March 2020, when GBG Leagues settled out.

There hasn't been a qualitative change to the game since Arc was introduced.

There's a lot of this game I find boring. Some aspects lost their appeal in days, some took years.

It's a testament to the depth and breadth of this game that it took me 6 years and 3 cities to plamb every aspect of the game and frankly get bored of the game as it is today.

Make no mistake, in that time I experimented with everything I could find or make up, got good at it, and can teach anyone how to do it. Want to know how to be a self leveler in the 1.9 Era? How to make a bundle plundering? How to build a Guild from scratch? How to motivate Friends without pissing them off? What the exact Diamond drop rate of WWs is? What it;s like to be a Peddler selling Goods traveling Guild to Guild? The best fast start technique for a new city? Want to know anything else in the game?

If you got something new, I'll be your bestest buddy and never ever bother you again.

I completely understand and frankly a bit envious of players who haven''t gotten bored of this game yet.

If I'm going to do mindless advancement for no real purpose I'll go back to paying ProgressQiest.

But stopping play for a period of time is vastly different then quitting.

I have hopes that INO will come up with something interesting to me. (I can't even express the disappointment over the yawnfest of the new PvP I don't seem to be alone in that.)

So why stay active on the forums?

Where else am I going to stay up to date on the game. keep abreast of developments, player thinking and have the pleasure of poster such as you?

I also have high hopes that Tony will solve the GBG problem they've been working on for months.

This is the only place players can communicate with INNO. Which includes the cumbersome but ony way to gt a suggestion to INNO, the Ideas process.

So I'll be sticking around.

----------

Instead of making blanket declarations you asked two questions in one post and they were hardly offensive at all! Good for you!

Next time though, try asking questions that are neither leading nor assume facts not in evidence

I've said my peace made my predictons and if you don't quote me or call me by name will happily wander off leaving you one less person to argue with.

I wonder if you can resist the temptation?
 
Last edited: