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Feedback for Guild Expedition.. Level 5

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
If timed right, the Forgotten Temple can be active for 5 GE seasons, not just 4. It's possible to collect an extra 50 fragments during each active FT cycle.
Nice try. Sorry, but picking up extra fragments doesn't change the fact that the boosts are only good for 28 days. I don't know how you fit 5 GE seasons into 28 days. Even leaving out the off day, 5 GE seasons is 30 active days. Maybe your calendar works different from mine?
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
When I was a kid we had a dog that really liked my Mother's vegetable soup. Fix him a bowl and he'd just lap it up. He ate everything except the lima beans. Licked them clean but left them in the bowl. Me, I cleaned my bowl. To each their own. :cool:
Another nice try, but...
It didn't take any extra effort to clean the bowl, while it did take extra effort for the dog to not eat part of the soup.
A better analogy would be a food that takes extra effort to prepare or acquire, yet doesn't taste that great. There's a steak restaurant here in town that has a reputation as being something special. And the prices they charge reflect that reputation. I've eaten there a couple of times over the last 30 years and the quality/taste doesn't live up to the reputation or the price. I do better at home. Nobody I know that's eaten there thinks they're anything special. I'd rather eat at Longhorn or some other chain steakhouse, because it costs less and is just as good as (or better than) this restaurant. So I say to those who still pay the price to eat at that steak restaurant, "To each their own."
Or, as @RazorbackPirate would say, "you do you."
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
Nice try. Sorry, but picking up extra fragments doesn't change the fact that the boosts are only good for 28 days. I don't know how you fit 5 GE seasons into 28 days. Even leaving out the off day, 5 GE seasons is 30 active days. Maybe your calendar works different from mine?
Same calendar. Put on your thinking cap. Hint: activate the FT mid-season.
 

LoveNkind

Active Member
The other stuff aside, I find it amazing that you could know this. How exactly? You keep track of all the GBs of 139 players? That must take a lot of time. Or could it be that you're assuming some things here? I'm pretty sure that's it. I took a quick look at the GBs of several people on my friends list in my AF city and you know what? A lot of various low level GBs mixed in with several level 80+ GBs. Several Lighthouses, St Mark's, Babels, even a few Royal Albert Halls, just to name a few. Only about the first 5 or so had the ones you mentioned, though.
Most of those GB are on the list I am making for goods GBs. I mostly fite GE5, but only negotiate the last few and it has torn up my goods considerably. I need to generate way more goods. So far, LOA looks like my best bet, but I like the small 3x3 footprint of GT. Almost nobody ever plunders me, but now I need goods. What GBs/other prizes do y'all favor for sub-space age players?
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
Another nice try, but...
It didn't take any extra effort to clean the bowl, while it did take extra effort for the dog to not eat part of the soup.
A better analogy would be a food that takes extra effort to prepare or acquire, yet doesn't taste that great. There's a steak restaurant here in town that has a reputation as being something special. And the prices they charge reflect that reputation. I've eaten there a couple of times over the last 30 years and the quality/taste doesn't live up to the reputation or the price. I do better at home. Nobody I know that's eaten there thinks they're anything special. I'd rather eat at Longhorn or some other chain steakhouse, because it costs less and is just as good as (or better than) this restaurant. So I say to those who still pay the price to eat at that steak restaurant, "To each their own."
Or, as @RazorbackPirate would say, "you do you."
I didn't expect for you to get the metaphor. You choose to leave the lima beans. Others relish them.
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
Most of those GB are on the list I am making for goods GBs. I mostly fite GE5, but only negotiate the last few and it has torn up my goods considerably. I need to generate way more goods. So far, LOA looks like my best bet, but I like the small 3x3 footprint of GT. Almost nobody ever plunders me, but now I need goods. What GBs/other prizes do y'all favor for sub-space age players?
A problem with good producing GBs is that they start producing "unrefined goods" in Modern Era. Except for trading, they won't be useful for GE. Levelling up the CF and doing RQs is an option. As is GBG.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
I didn't expect for you to get the metaphor. You choose to leave the lima beans. Others relish them.
Oh, I got it, it just didn't fit. There's no extra effort or preparation to eating the lima beans, as I explained in my reply. :rolleyes:
Same calendar. Put on your thinking cap. Hint: activate the FT mid-season.
So it's active for 3 full seasons and parts of two others. Not the same as being active for 5 seasons.
Most of those GB are on the list I am making for goods GBs. I mostly fite GE5, but only negotiate the last few and it has torn up my goods considerably. I need to generate way more goods. So far, LOA looks like my best bet, but I like the small 3x3 footprint of GT. Almost nobody ever plunders me, but now I need goods. What GBs/other prizes do y'all favor for sub-space age players?
Those GBs won't help you with goods for GE if you're in Modern Age or above. Most of those on my friends list (and all of those I had looked at when I wrote that post) are past Modern, so having those GBs at all is kind of foolish for them, especially at low levels.
 

LoveNkind

Active Member
Same calendar. Put on your thinking cap. Hint: activate the FT mid-season.
I figured this out BEFORE I got to your post. It requires some determination to make it work. You start your 28 days on the last day or day-and-a-half of the first GE season and rush hard to finish GE5 that day. Then the 5th season, you rush the whole GE so as to finish GE5 before the boost runs out. That is going to be extra work--and extra fun. I would not have thought of this one myself Pericles. Thank you very very much.
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
I figured this out BEFORE I got to your post. It requires some determination to make it work. You start your 28 days on the last day or day-and-a-half of the first GE season and rush hard to finish GE5 that day. Then the 5th season, you rush the whole GE so as to finish GE5 before the boost runs out. That is going to be extra work--and extra fun. I would not have thought of this one myself Pericles. Thank you very very much.
I can't take credit for this idea. I got it from @CDmark. :)

One thing to consider. After the boost runs out you need to leave the FT idle until near the end of the next season then start the cycle (just as you described) over again.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Except that the best defensive Serpent is 15% on 4 squares and 2 X Ritual Flame lvl2s on the same space are 24% , The Greater Ritual Flame is 7% defense , The normal Ritual Flame is 8%. This "bonus" that you see is where exactly ?
Erm...the bonus is in the fact that the Serpent is actually a 30% bonus (along with the 30% offensive bonus from the head) and the GRF is actually 14%. These buildings don't only boost defense, nor should that be the only thing players look for when boosting their defensive stats. I mean, that'd be like only building Sentinel Outposts for GBG. You don't do that, right? No, you build attack as well, probably to a higher number than defense. It's the same deal here. Watchfires are nice and all, but things like Tactician's Towers and these new GE5 buildings are going to be much more effective.
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
3 full seasons and part of 2 is enough for L5 for 5 seasons.
You still have to slog through GE5 every single week to keep it going. And if you get a new one every 4 weeks when doing GE5, and you get extra fragments like you stated, what's the sense of bothering with trying to make one last through 5 weeks? That's just extra work for nothing. But you do you.
Erm...the bonus is in the fact that the Serpent is actually a 30% bonus (along with the 30% offensive bonus from the head) and the GRF is actually 14%.
Combining attack and defense boosts into one number just muddies the water. The Serpent is 15/15 after getting it to level 3, which is decent for its size, but not enough better than other buildings to do the work to get it. And the GRF is 7/7, but as @Sharmon the Impaler pointed out, the regular Ritual Flame at level 2 is a 12 for defense. Much less work to get and pretty much a wash on the boost level. Not to mention that chain buildings limit your options when arranging your city.
Watchfires are nice and all, but things like Tactician's Towers and these new GE5 buildings are going to be much more effective.
LOL. Watchfires are useless, as are Tactician's Towers. These new GE5 buildings are, too, except when doing GE5. I can't believe you all don't see the ridiculous hoops Inno has you going through to get buildings that only help with the feature that provides them! Would you do GBG if you only got rewards that help do GBG? No. Would you do Cultural Settlements if they only gave rewards that helped with Cultural Settlements? No. So why do GE5 only to get rewards that help with GE5? It's madness, I tell you. Pure madness.
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
You still have to slog through GE5 every single week to keep it going. And if you get a new one every 4 weeks when doing GE5, and you get extra fragments like you stated, what's the sense of bothering with trying to make one last through 5 weeks? That's just extra work for nothing. But you do you.
It's the same amount of effort but the reward is 20% more fragments during the 28-day life of the Temple.

I get it, you don't want to play level 5. Good for you. However, there are many players that do want to play it and your diatribe isn't going to change that.
 

honey55

Active Member
You still have to slog through GE5 every single week to keep it going. And if you get a new one every 4 weeks when doing GE5, and you get extra fragments like you stated, what's the sense of bothering with trying to make one last through 5 weeks? That's just extra work for nothing. But you do you.

Combining attack and defense boosts into one number just muddies the water. The Serpent is 15/15 after getting it to level 3, which is decent for its size, but not enough better than other buildings to do the work to get it. And the GRF is 7/7, but as @Sharmon the Impaler pointed out, the regular Ritual Flame at level 2 is a 12 for defense. Much less work to get and pretty much a wash on the boost level. Not to mention that chain buildings limit your options when arranging your city.

LOL. Watchfires are useless, as are Tactician's Towers. These new GE5 buildings are, too, except when doing GE5. I can't believe you all don't see the ridiculous hoops Inno has you going through to get buildings that only help with the feature that provides them! Would you do GBG if you only got rewards that help do GBG? No. Would you do Cultural Settlements if they only gave rewards that helped with Cultural Settlements? No. So why do GE5 only to get rewards that help with GE5? It's madness, I tell you. Pure madness.
It appears it may be worse than that. According to the beta forum the summer event has great buildings to meet our new needs for city defence but they'll pretty much cost you plenty of money. They appear to have created a game feature for the sole purpose of getting players to part with their cash and if what people say on beta is true, not even the event building will be for f2p players unless they're lucky. So reality is, many people are paying real money and lots of goods to get rewards which take weeks to complete, which in the end wont make your city any better then if you hadn't done it UNLESS they really do come out with more features that use city defense. If i was a gambling person though, i would lean more to the idea that once they got all the money they could, they'd end the game. Probably a good thing I'm not a gambler. Yet, i can't seem to shake the thought.
Saying all that, i am working on doing ge5. It isnt worth it for the rewards. It doesn't make sense using defence boosts to attack. I can't imagine any one taking me serious if I'd come up with such an idea. We're attacking, not defending. But, I'm trying it anyway for something different to do. If they come out with other features using city defence, I'll be more prepared. If the game ends, it wont matter what i take out of my city. The last thing I'd do is start putting money into a game which has do much negative feedback on beta. Just makes it too big a gamble for me and I'm not a gambler
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
When did you actually use that garbage you got from GE? (maybe years ago.. LOL)
Ummm, well, for the last few years I've been harvesting Diamonds from all 4 levels of GE. And plenty of AD fodder to buy the stuff I really want. Now I have to get through at least 3/4 of GE4 to have a chance at half the Diamonds I had a chance at before (which realistically translates to getting less than half what I used to get). And I get fragments. Lots and lots of fragments. Pages and pages of fragments. It was bad enough when the event buildings started producing them, now most of my cities have at least 3 pages of fragments, some of them 5 or more. Mostly for stuff I would sell the AD anyway. So now I have to wait until I get enough fragments, and then assemble the selection kits, and sell those to the AD, because I'm pretty sure it won't let you convert the selection kit to the building without building it in your city and then wasting a Store Building on it to then sell it to the AD.
It's the same amount of effort but the reward is 20% more fragments during the 28-day life of the Temple.
No, it's not the same amount of effort. If you just build it at the start of a GE season, you don't have to worry about timing your efforts to fit the building's timeline. That is extra effort. And you're trying to stretch its useful life to an extra GE season...so you can get an extra one every once in a while????? So every 5th or 6th week I suppose you can then have two of them simultaneously. Dude, that's a lot of extra effort for not much benefit. Not to mention that the space you use for that building is pretty much wasted the week you don't have one up. And if you are going for the occasional two at once (the only reason your plan makes any sense) then you have to have twice the available space that week. I'm guessing you know what I think of that kind of a plan.
I get it, you don't want to play level 5. Good for you. However, there are many players that do want to play it and your diatribe isn't going to change that.
In reply: I get it, you want to play level 5. Good for you. However, many players don't want to play it and your twisting things around trying to make it look sensible won't change that.
It is a game? yes?
You may call responding to a new 'feature' madness. I call it opportunity to figure out how to manage a new diabolical play strategy in the game.
I call sticking your head in the sand and ignoring GE 5 rather foolish.
What I hear you saying here is that if I don't like the new feature I should stay out of the feedback thread so only those who want to do it can be heard. I'm sure that's not what you intended, but it's what that sounds like.
 

Orius Maximus

Well-Known Member
One positive thing about the new GE is the fps galore. In a new world like Dilmun they go to great use.

I'm not really enthusiastic about it myself. As I've said before, I'm finding it more difficult to spend some of the fp I'm earning in the first place. The value of bar fp is definitely diminishing.


In making room for more blue for GE5 I deleted my Galata because I am under perpetual Aid All and am in zero need of goods 3 eras back. I just got a nasty PM back from some Einstein that thought my Galata was fair game for a snipe because it was up to 102 and had a few on it apparently lol. This was until it got deleted with his FP on it and I didn't even notice

To be fair, if I was going to rip up a GB, I'd make sure it's leveled first, as a courtesy to any players who have FP on the building so they don't get screwed out of the investment. It's not like I don't have the FP to spare.

OTOH, I think it's hilarious that you royally pissed off a sniper by doing it. Karma bit him in the ass.


So all other stuff aside, I've been thinking about the cost/reward of GE5.
I don't know much about the encounter rewards other than what I've read here...which hasn't impressed me.
In looking at the new buildings from level 5, I don't see how they're better than ones you can get elsewhere with much less effort. For one thing, the main building, which is admittedly nice while it lasts, has to be demolished and rebuilt every 4 weeks and that can only be accomplished if you complete GE5 all 4 of those weeks. And while the boosts it provides are nice for other areas of the game, they are woefully inadequate for making much of a difference on level 5. Unless, of course, you remake your city to drastically increase your defense army stats.
The secondary chain building would be mildly attractive if you could get it another way, but not at the cost of having to complete GE5 multiple times. Again, the boosts won't help much, if at all, with level 5.
It might be a little different if the level 5 buildings made it significantly easier to complete level 5 in the future, but they just won't. And what sense does it make to remake your city for buildings and a feature that won't make your city any better than other similar event/special buildings?
When you top all that off with the fact that all that defense you have to add have virtually no other use in the game, it really calls into question the wisdom of bothering with GE5.
Sadly, just adding a level that isn't worth the effort wasn't the extent of this change. They also significantly nerfed rewards on the existing 4 levels of GE.
My takeaway from this change is that not only do I see no reason to bother with GE level 5, I also see less incentive to expend much energy on the first 4 levels.

You left out the part where these new prizes are padded out with avatars, so it'll take longer to collect the fragments as the avatars are slowly collected out of the prize slots.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Combining attack and defense boosts into one number just muddies the water. The Serpent is 15/15 after getting it to level 3, which is decent for its size, but not enough better than other buildings to do the work to get it. And the GRF is 7/7, but as @Sharmon the Impaler pointed out, the regular Ritual Flame at level 2 is a 12 for defense. Much less work to get and pretty much a wash on the boost level. Not to mention that chain buildings limit your options when arranging your city.

LOL. Watchfires are useless, as are Tactician's Towers. These new GE5 buildings are, too, except when doing GE5. I can't believe you all don't see the ridiculous hoops Inno has you going through to get buildings that only help with the feature that provides them! Would you do GBG if you only got rewards that help do GBG? No. Would you do Cultural Settlements if they only gave rewards that helped with Cultural Settlements? No. So why do GE5 only to get rewards that help with GE5? It's madness, I tell you. Pure madness.
Pretty much all of what you said is both irrelevant because the GE5 buildings are still better than most other options in the game, and invalidated by the fact that I'm already clearing GE5 without any of these buildings (and without negotiating). However, they're still better than a lot of what I have placed in my city, so I'll be adding them in as I get them which is only going to keep making things easier for me over time. Besides, the GE5 rewards don't 'only help with GE5'. There's still plenty of FP rewards and red military bonuses as well, along with GE5 being an extra 16 encounters' worth of relic attempts with the ToR. I'm already able to reap these rewards (in SAV, mind you), so the only 'madness' here would be not going after them!

Side note: The Serpent isn't really much of a chain building, either. I mean, mechanically it is, but realistically there's little opportunity to really build one out because of how both parts are obtained. If anything, players will have more heads than chain elements and those are good enough on their own lol
 

Johnny B. Goode

Well-Known Member
Pretty much all of what you said is both irrelevant because the GE5 buildings are still better than most other options in the game,
Um, no, they're not. Just repeating that over and over doesn't make it true. There are plenty of buildings that provide permanent benefits comparable to or better than the Forgotten Temple without having to re-win them every 4 weeks. If I can have comparable or better buildings without bothering with GE5, why should I?
and invalidated by the fact that I'm already clearing GE5 without any of these buildings (and without negotiating).
You keep saying that as if it were true of most players. Why don't you share what your defense boosts are? If you're not negotiating, the only way you're clearing GE5 without using Diamonds (which you've claimed in a previous post), is if you have either insane defense boosts already (or are using up the bottle boosts we got in the last event) or you're using higher age units (would SAJM units be that much better than SAV units?). So tell us, which is it?
extra 16 encounters' worth of relic attempts with the ToR.
Out of all the posting about GE5, this is the only valid positive point. Unfortunately, not enough on its own.
 

Pericles the Lion

Well-Known Member
Um, no, they're not. Just repeating that over and over doesn't make it true. There are plenty of buildings that provide permanent benefits comparable to or better than the Forgotten Temple without having to re-win them every 4 weeks. If I can have comparable or better buildings without bothering with GE5, why should I?
Comparing all but GBs. The Forgotten Temple provides 40% red attack (2.96/sq) which, iirc, is second only to Yggdrasil. The FT provides 50% blue attack which, iirc, is second only to Tactician's Tower L2. The value of the FT's 20% forge point boost is city-dependent but can make it the #1 FP producing building. Taken in their entirety, the benefits of the Forgotten Temple seem superior to any other buildings (excluding GBs) in the game.
 
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