Feedback for Guild Expedition.. Level 5

[matr]

Progressive era city with defenders 245% attack and 275% defense able to manually battle thru GE70 WITHOUT any added boosts, no purchased engagement boosts, no kraken, no AO, no pay diamonds for 2nd wave, just ADVANCED age troops from post modern. One MG Team and 7 rogues did the magic. Have to hide the MG Team in the corner, the AI battle bot sure does avoid rogues. I killed 2 to 3 of the enemy with rogue advances. Ran out of attempts (and time) to see if I could go further. I've heard that it is possible to get hovers in IA. I bet those cities could do well in GE5

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I'm confused! Are you talking about storing general and/or event/specialty buildings? or those acquired in GE? Since this is the feedback thread for GE Level 5, I'd have to presume that you mean buildings acquired and to my knowledge you cannot store anything that you've earned there. You can sell them at the Auction Dealer but you can't pick them. (Now if there's a difference with some of the new GE5 buildings, i.e., Serpent, then I'm unsure as I've not really bothered to study up on it much).

Buildings won in GE (e.g. Face of the Ancient, Gate of the Sun God, Fountain of Youth, etc.) can be put back into inventory using the Store Building item.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

Progressive era city with defenders 245% attack and 275% defense able to manually battle thru GE70 WITHOUT any added boosts, no purchased engagement boosts, no kraken, no AO, no pay diamonds for 2nd wave, just ADVANCED age troops from post modern. One MG Team and 7 rogues did the magic. Have to hide the MG Team in the corner, the AI battle bot sure does avoid rogues. I killed 2 to 3 of the enemy with rogue advances. Ran out of attempts (and time) to see if I could go further. I've heard that it is possible to get hovers in IA. I bet those cities could do well in GE5

I use Turturrets (OF) in one of my Indy cities. They make GE5 easy. But it's just a temporary thing because their effectiveness will diminish as I age up.

 

[Pericles the Lion]

I'd like to know how many will repeat though. For most people it depletes basically their entire supply of defense boosts, or goods, to do GE5.

Week 1, 43 of 63 guildmates attempted GE L5, 26 completed. This week, 39 of 64 with 22 completing.

 

[DoubleJ]

This is utter nonsense and so are the points made by people defending it. We have people in FE or PE/InA using hovers to clear combat and saying everything is fine. That's not an option for people in the SA like myself. GE80 is about 2000/2000, a full 1900/1900 above my bonuses. Because of scaling and the chance to crit that all SA units have, it's impossible to consistently combat GE5 without tearing down useful city buildings to replace them with garbage. And while useful can generally be subjective, in this case it's pretty clear that losing the ability to get diamonds and FPs in GBG so that I can get garbage buildings in GE is not useful. Yes, hover accounts can clear it through combat, but for the 99% of players who are using age-appropriate units combat isn't an option. Even people willing to waste valuable space on things like DC or VP can't win through combat. VP only kills the first wave, some of the time, and when every single one of their units has a chance to one shot me that's an exercise in futility.

I'm not even going to address the terrible rewards not being worth the cost, or how this is further evidence of Inno milking a dying game for players' last few bucks, or the multiple levels of incompetence that had to mesh together to bolt on this untested and broken idea onto something that was working and now no longer is. Simply, mathematically, there is no way for people in SA to reliably finish GE without devastating their city in every other aspect of the game. The only features in all of FOE in which city statistics matter is GE5, and if you are somehow still getting plundered. Attack boosts matter in GE1-4, the continent map, GBG, GVG, daily quests, plundering, and the PVP tower. It's a bad tradeoff and anyone who thinks otherwise is rationalizing bad behavior

 

[Pericles the Lion]

This is utter nonsense and so are the points made by people defending it. We have people in FE or PE/InA using hovers to clear combat and saying everything is fine. That's not an option for people in the SA like myself. GE80 is about 2000/2000, a full 1900/1900 above my bonuses. Because of scaling and the chance to crit that all SA units have, it's impossible to consistently combat GE5 without tearing down useful city buildings to replace them with garbage. And while useful can generally be subjective, in this case it's pretty clear that losing the ability to get diamonds and FPs in GBG so that I can get garbage buildings in GE is not useful. Yes, hover accounts can clear it through combat, but for the 99% of players who are using age-appropriate units combat isn't an option. Even people willing to waste valuable space on things like DC or VP can't win through combat. VP only kills the first wave, some of the time, and when every single one of their units has a chance to one shot me that's an exercise in futility.

I'm not even going to address the terrible rewards not being worth the cost, or how this is further evidence of Inno milking a dying game for players' last few bucks, or the multiple levels of incompetence that had to mesh together to bolt on this untested and broken idea onto something that was working and now no longer is. Simply, mathematically, there is no way for people in SA to reliably finish GE without devastating their city in every other aspect of the game. The only features in all of FOE in which city statistics matter is GE5, and if you are somehow still getting plundered. Attack boosts matter in GE1-4, the continent map, GBG, GVG, daily quests, plundering, and the PVP tower. It's a bad tradeoff and anyone who thinks otherwise is rationalizing bad behavior

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't happen to agree with it and I am not "rationalizing bad behavior". I'm in SAJM and have completed L5 twice with negotiations. I've built my city such that it can sustain a 12K per week drain indefinitely. Meanwhile, I am building up my defending army boosts in order to reduce the need for negotiations. So far, I have not removed any of my attack boost buildings and probably won't - I just won't add to them anymore. I can handle 120 attrition now and really don't care about going higher. Personally, I like the challenge of L5 and expect that the Devs will introduce more features that rely on defending army stats. If you are so sour on L5 GE then it's probably in your best interest to not play it.

 

[DoubleJ]

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't happen to agree with it and I am not "rationalizing bad behavior". I'm in SAJM and have completed L5 twice with negotiations. I've built my city such that it can sustain a 12K per week drain indefinitely. Meanwhile, I am building up my defending army boosts in order to reduce the need for negotiations. So far, I have not removed any of my attack boost buildings and probably won't - I just won't add to them anymore. I can handle 120 attrition now and really don't care about going higher. Personally, I like the challenge of L5 and expect that the Devs will introduce more features that rely on defending army stats. If you are so sour on L5 GE then it's probably in your best interest to not play it.

I've also completed it with negotiations. But having to spend 5 figures of goods to complete something with trash rewards isn't a worthwhile trade. Especially since negotiations are time consuming and optimized with anyone using Helper. Negotiations have a point and a strategy in GBG: do you want to gain half attrition at the expensive of a longer action? The only reason to do them in GE1-5 is if you cannot complete the combat. Which SAJM players cannot. It is not a challenge: it is a goods sink. A challenge is navigating the continent map with under boosted troops, having to switch out units and manual every fight. Which I did in SAM before my attack boosts got high enough that that no longer mattered. But that's something that's completable. You can finish the continent map. You don't finish GE, it comes back next week, ready to suck 2-3 AI Cores worth of goods to complete. It is not a challenge or good game design to want me to build 3 AI Cores a week. It's just "donate to treasury" with extra steps.

I'm not, strictly speaking, sour on GE5. Like GVG, the rewards aren't worth it so I'll ignore it. But everyone needs to be honest about what it really is. It's not a challenge, it's not innovation, it doesn't add to the game. It cripples our vanishingly few newer players, and milks higher age players of goods. It seems basically designed solely for people with PE/InA hover accounts who want avatars. Everyone else can pound sand.

 

[Angry.Blanket]

One has to consider, there is another type of challenge, Growing your City until it is capable of fighting GE5 is a challenge.
When I first started the game I could not do all of GE 1, the challenge was to grow my city so that I could.
Now is it worth it ? that is definitely questionable. Killing diamonds off for the smaller players that are still struggling with level 3 is a bit harsh.

 

[DoubleJ]

One has to consider, there is another type of challenge, Growing your City until it is capable of fighting GE5 is a challenge.
When I first started the game I could not do all of GE 1, the challenge was to grow my city so that I could.
Now is it worth it ? that is definitely questionable. Killing diamonds off for the smaller players that are still struggling with level 3 is a bit harsh.

Challenges should have some sort of point. Fighting SAM units with riflemen is a challenge. Having the highest level OoD is a challenge. But at least the latter is visible to other players and has an end date. The challenge of GE5 is coming up with 15k goods every week. Which most large players do incidentally. But it isn't fun, it doesn't add to the game, and it screws over everyone who isn't a large player (or who has a hover account)

 

[Darkest.Knight]

Negotiating thru GE5 isn't that bad, but of course it depends on how u built your town. Since I've accumulated duplicates of all the better-quality event buildings I generate huge numbers of goods daily, haven't bothered adding them up in some time, at least 2k goods/day.

I'll never bother w/town attack/def so fighting thru GE5 will stay impossible, using the Friends Tavern extra turn buff makes it easy enough w/o spending diamonds.

 

[Angry.Blanket]

Challenges should have some sort of point. Fighting SAM units with riflemen is a challenge. Having the highest level OoD is a challenge. But at least the latter is visible to other players and has an end date. The challenge of GE5 is coming up with 15k goods every week. Which most large players do incidentally. But it isn't fun, it doesn't add to the game, and it screws over everyone who isn't a large player (or who has a hover account)

Or the challenge is growing your city over a period of time to where it has the ability to fight GE 5, The point being to grow your city stronger over time.

 

[LoveNkind]

Seriously INNO! A freakin' avatar as a reward for a level 5 GE win! What an insult to players! Just another useless payoff that has zero relevance to game play!

Those are the first avatars that I hav considered to BE a reward. they are very colorful and reveal you as a top GE player.

 

[LoveNkind]

One suddenly popuar idea is building Virgo Project and level it up to 80. Tha gives five attmpts at 69% hit. Being able to wipe out half the first wave would go a long way. Use up h five then let it go until the next day. Virgo makes way more sense than Deal Castle. and might be equal to St Basil for value vs space use.

Thanks. I have a Deal Castle, and it helped me complete GE5 the first two weeks. But its footprint is so big, I am considering trashing it. If Inno could redraw it as a 5 x 5, some of the complaints against GE5 would lessen.
Nice to know I could replace it with a Virgo Project.

 

[LoveNkind]

Did you fight manually? What units did you use?

I found fighting GE5 manually turned a loss into a victory with 5 troops left.

 

[honey55]

I found fighting GE5 manually turned a loss into a victory with 5 troops left.

Are you jupiter age? What were your boosts

 

[DoubleJ]

Or the challenge is growing your city over a period of time to where it has the ability to fight GE 5, The point being to grow your city stronger over time.

That makes your city weaker over time. You have to sacrifice either forge point production or attack boost to gain defensive boost, which is useful solely for one part of one aspect of the game. So the challenge is the mental gymnastics required to justify kneecapping yourself to accommodate Inno's lack of vision

 

[Mor-Rioghain]

Buildings won in GE (e.g. Face of the Ancient, Gate of the Sun God, Fountain of Youth, etc.) can be put back into inventory using the Store Building item.

I stand corrected. I haven't actually tried to store one in years and you used to not be able to. You learn something new every day.

 

[Dursland]

That makes your city weaker over time. You have to sacrifice either forge point production or attack boost to gain defensive boost, which is useful solely for one part of one aspect of the game. So the challenge is the mental gymnastics required to justify kneecapping yourself to accommodate Inno's lack of vision

Not true. Inno is releasing new two-way buildings that are just as good as existing buildings, or even better.

Like this event's Phantom Tower and the upcoming wildlife Panda Shrine.

Summer event gives Governor's Villa an upgrade too and adds blue stats.

We should get the wildlife event in 2-3 weeks then Summer after that - Summer is currently running in beta.

 

[honey55]

Not true. Inno is releasing new two-way buildings that are just as good as existing buildings, or even better.

Like this event's Phantom Tower and the upcoming wildlife Panda Shrine.

Summer event gives Governor's Villa an upgrade too and adds blue stats.

We should get the wildlife event in 2-3 weeks then Summer after that - Summer is currently running in beta.

My understanding is the Villa upgrade is only available for spending money, not diamonds, and it is also maybe too difficult to get more than one. I have 2 Villas, and don't consider them as they are now, anything I would want more of. I don't spend real money on the game, so unless it is available for diamonds, it won't be helpful to me. I will place other buildings, but really I would need too many of them to get the job done in Jupiter. Just using those, will mean literally years before I can finish level 5 seeing Im in Jupiter age. I'll see if placing the phantom tower makes any difference to doing wave one as last week I couldn't even win the first battle. I did notice that I have alot more defense boosts than I used to. I guess I won alot in the anniversary event, but of course, that wouldn't be sustainable very long depending on how many it took to get the job done in jupiter age. Not really interested in that approach. If I could get my city defense high enough without sacrificing how high attrition I can go in gbg, I might. If there was a chart showing what boosts get one to how high attrition in jupiter age, that would be really helpful. But, I think the highest I've gone is 115 and others have gone lots higher. But, I think it might take lots more boosts to go any higher. I just don't know what is worth it, cause to me, the rewards for doing level 5 are not worth the space. I could do better placing event buildings that don't give any boosts at all. 30 defense boost is nothing in jupiter age. I think I need over 1000 of each.

 

[DoubleJ]

Not true. Inno is releasing new two-way buildings that are just as good as existing buildings, or even better.

Like this event's Phantom Tower and the upcoming wildlife Panda Shrine.

Summer event gives Governor's Villa an upgrade too and adds blue stats.

We should get the wildlife event in 2-3 weeks then Summer after that - Summer is currently running in beta.

Sure, they're releasing $15 buildings that you can get one maybe two of each event. So with the two phantom towers I have, and the level 9 panda hut I assume I'll get, that brings me to a whopping 64% city attack boost. And it only cost 2 months, $15, and 10k diamonds. To still not be remotely close to being able to do GE5. And after years of people complaining that attack was king and that every variant building without attack was worthless (Moose Mountain anyone?) they're fixing it by making the attack variants even more essential. I doubt I'll be paying for the gold panda building because without course correction I won't be playing much longer.

But if the answer is that we'll just have new event buildings that fix everything, that undercuts the entire "GE5 is a challenge" argument everyone is making. If we simply phase out event buildings for newer ones that are identical but also blue, then we're just locking in a different type of power creep. Whereas before, every event building had to be red to be useful, now they'll have to be I guess purple to be useful. GE5 was a bad design decision. Fake difficulty to mask Inno removing diamonds from F2P players. No real rewards for the people who would have to sacrifice to do it (beyond the portraits, which are admittedly nice), and clearly no effort by Inno to test or balance (good saving buildings that cost more goods to build than they save).